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sborthwick
87 Posts |
 Posted - 03/18/2008 : 12:34:35
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I talked to Dr. Sarno today about my idea of doing the Lucinda Bassett tapes - CBT approach. He was absolutely adamant in telling me to go back to his psychologist to "finish" the job. He said that the little girl inside of me is crying out for attention - to be heard. He said that if I try and change my approach - to learn the behaviour changes, I will repress the real feelings more. He said it would eventually make the anxiety worse. He said that in the last few months, he has been advising people to "befriend their inner child". He pointed out that I was so traumatized when I was little, that I need to address it.
I called his psychologist and made an appointment. I absolutely hate the therapy but am going to try and take a different approach. I think if I realize how much the little girl inside needs attention - and needs kindness, maybe it will allow me to address that. It is very hard to think of going back and digging up that old stuff.
I wonder then how people who have done Lucinda Bassett's program, have so successfully got over their anxiety???? Maybe it was replaced with something else? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 12:42:32
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Suz -- I think you have to do what seems right to you. But I have had a lot of success with the inner child approach. It is fundamentally nurturing approach, which can really turn around how we feel inside.
Have you ever checked out John Bradshaw's work on the inner child (Healing the Shame That Binds You, or The Homecoming)? He has a Christian background and a lot of insight into the wounds of our inner children.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 16:01:21
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quote:
Originally posted by sborthwick
I absolutely hate the therapy ...
You're not supposed to like it.
I have friends who say they love their therapist and really enjoy the sessions. That's not what it's about, at least not when you're trying to dig up your insides to find the sources of rage.
It is no fun to confront the reasons why the inner child is so angry. If it were, then your brain wouldn't try so hard to distract you from it. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 11:01:11
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quote:
I wonder then how people who have done Lucinda Bassett's program, have so successfully got over their anxiety???? Maybe it was replaced with something else?
Why didn't you ask this question of Dr. Sarno? He has planted some nonsense in your head that if you don't "deal with" your emotions, you will die of cancer. So now you are in a quandary. This is rocket fuel for the anxiety, courtesy of someone who should know better. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 12:14:34
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Hillbilly, I'm reasonably sure Dr. Sarno didn't say anything about cancer. This is something Suz mentioned a while back. Would you stop being such a freaking antagonist all the time?
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 12:53:10
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I did the Lucinda Basset tapes a few years back. I think they are good for people with mild depression and anxiety. Don't know their effect on a TMS person though, since I haven't tried them since being diagnosed with TMS.
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"Over thinking...over analyzing...separates the body from the mind." Maynard from the band TOOL |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 13:12:46
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| ACL, please see The Divided Mind, page 30. Suz didn't invent this idea. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 13:32:14
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Hillbilly,
Did you do the Lucinda Bassett tapes? I am actually very open to that program....certainly if it can reduce the anxiety. I don't love the thought of going back to Sarno's therapist at all. I have tried other therapists over the last 2 years and nothing has helped. If Lucinda's program works - fabulous! I would love that. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 14:36:27
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Suz,
No, didn't do Bassett, so I don't know anything about it. Finding someone who went through it and came out the other side was extremely helpful to me. Perhaps you can find someone through the APA who specializes in anxiety recovery and work with them. Many people come to be psychologists because of their own struggles with these things. I hope it is fruitful for you. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 14:50:27
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| Thanks Hillbilly. What is APA? |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 15:17:47
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www.apa.org/ American Psychological Association.
Also, www.nacbt.com/ has lots about CBT and other resources, links to therapists, etc.
Good luck. |
Edited by - Hillbilly on 03/19/2008 15:18:07 |
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Karma
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 12:56:43
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As usual, Dave is right.
My rule of thumb is if you absolutely hate being in a therapy session or can't help but cry during sessions then that proves you truly need to be there to work through your inner demons/child/rage/etc.
I was getting too comfortable in therapy (TMS practitioner) and haven't gone in a few weeks because of financial issues. When I go back I need to have a serious discussion with my therapist about changing the approach to PUSH me. The few times that she has pushed me I became noticably angry which means it's all still in there trying it's best not to get out.
Don't run from your issues by switching techniques. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 13:39:54
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I am not sure about this Karma. Since I have stopped therapy and have started working with Claire Week's approach (similar to Sarno), I have had my anxiety lift for the first time in years. It is absolutely wonderful. In addition, my back pain that recently flared up has completely gone. I am not convinced that Sarno's idea of digging into childhood pain is the answer. I agree without a doubt that most physical symptoms are caused by the brain - but more by an overloaded nervous system and are symptoms of anxiety. If you cure the root cause of anxiety, the physical symptoms go away. That is what is happening with me. I feel a new lightness and confidence that I have not felt in many years. I think that Sarno's discovery of back pain being caused by the brain is absolutely spot on.....but I am not sure what kind of success his patients in psychotherapy have. I think he may be off on this last piece. I have had someone else post here who saw one of his therapist's for a year and had no change. He switched, started using a different approach - using Claire Week's among others and is now in much better shape.
I think that the therapy actually increases the anxiety and the entire cycle could go on for years to come.
Also, I found that I felt such a victim with the therapist...a sense that I had no control and my unconscious and my past had a hold over me. After doing Week's exercises, I feel I have taken my health into my own hands - my confidence level has gone up and my symptoms are really going away. I have been under imense stress at work and even through this time, I have been feeling better and better.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 20:05:16
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quote:
Originally posted by sborthwick
I am not convinced that Sarno's idea of digging into childhood pain is the answer.
I am not sure where you get this idea. Seems like you may be drawing conclusions from sources other than Dr. Sarno himself. I suggest you fully understand Dr. Sarno's position on therapy before casting judgment on his methods or rates of success.
The therapy is not all about digging into childhood memories, though this might be necessary for a small percentage of people who have had childhood trauma or abuse. For the most part, the treatment is about identifying negative thought patterns and learning to correct them. How different is this from other approaches?
I suggest that those who wish to truly understand Dr. Sarno's suggested method of psychotherapy read the Treatment chapter of The Divided Mind. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 07:42:31
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Dave,
I appreciate you pointing out the description in The Divided Mind and I know that my sentence "digging into childhood pain" is a very simplistic summary of the therapy.
But I have to ask...Dave...have you gone to one of Sarno's therapists? Honestly, from the few people I know who have seen them -the entire focus is on diving into really difficult and painful times in ones childhood and past traumas. This is to encourage one to feel the repressed feelings that one doesn't want to feel. Now - the first time round I did this for 5 months with the therapist and all I got was much much more anxiety and confusion. I went back recently and the same pattern emerged. I just decided to take another approach - of course, very much based on Sarno's concept that all the physical pain and anxiety is caused by the brain. I think he is absolutely right. I am not sure though that this therapy approach works. I think there could be a simpler way. I think this approach could eventually work after a very long time.
As you pointed out in your post,
"For the most part, the treatment is about identifying negative thought patterns and learning to correct them"
Exactly. Weeks approach is that one's negative, obsessive thoughts of today are causing the pain and over reaction of the body. Instead, as soon as one falls into a Fearful thought - instead of run away in panic from it and/or obssess over it, she has you just sit, feel it and then get on with one's day. I have been practicing for a few days and you know what....the anxiety is lifting and I have this extraordinary feeling of peace adn confidence. Her theory is that when you learn to just go with feelings, relax into them, accept them, the nervous system starts to calm down and the body stops over reacting. Therefore, the anxiety and pain goes away. She says it takes approximately 2 months - but not to dwell on that time frame. I have had more success with this in 3 days, then I have in all the last few years of journalling and therapy.
I guess..we shall see if this works. I am not knocking Sarno...that woudl be ridiculous. The guy has made the most amazing discovery and I owe him alot for reducing my back pain. But...I am not sure he has all the answers.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 09:55:15
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quote:
Originally posted by sborthwick
But I have to ask...Dave...have you gone to one of Sarno's therapists?
Yes, and my experience was certainly not focused on difficult and painful times. I think it is very unfair to make any kind of judgement based on "few people" that you know. Dr. Sarno's experience is based on thousands of clinical cases.
In my opinion, the goal of the therapy is to recognize negative thought patterns, and to identify the origin of those patterns. This may well go back to your upbringing and childhood but it is certainly not about digging up trauma and painful times (again with the caveat that victims of severe childhood abuse or trauma are a special case).
By understanding how life experiences have shaped these "poisonous" thought patterns, it helps to recognize and disarm them when they occur.
If during the course of therapy one is able to uncover and feel repressed emotions, that is a bonus. TMS is about the unconscious mind trying to keep the cork on the bottle. Popping this cork allows you to feel what your unconscious mind is trying so desparately to keep you from feeling. It drains the resivoir of unconscious rage and foils the mind's distraction strategy.
I personally do not like labels -- CBT vs. psychotherapy vs. blah blah. One could say that Sarno is opposed to CBT in general and that may be correct. But then you say yourself that one of the strategies you employ is to "just go with feelings." This is absolutely consistent with TMS treatment -- learning to feel rather than repress. Allowing yourself to experience the anxiety -- which in Dr. Sarno's opinion serves as a distraction -- foils the unconscious mind's strategy. You are saying "bring it on, I'm not allowing it to escalate." This is ignoring the symptom which is what Dr. Sarno says to do.
My main point in all this is to not jump to any conclusions based on others' opinions or the experience of a small number of people, and to avoid over-analysis. You may view Weeke's approach as contradictory to Sarno. I view it as a tool that helps to achieve the goal. In the end, it's about reconditioning yourself and learning to disarm the symptoms. If Weeke's technique helps you to "float through" periods of anxiety, then good for you. |
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sborthwick
87 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 10:58:55
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You make some very good points Dave. I am very happy to hear that you had success with Sarno's therapy. I definitely learnt alot about my childhood and why I repress feeling angry and in fact, letting myself feel anything. So in that way, I got a lot of insight. Maybe it just isn't the way for me....and you are right, that is just my experience. I definitely shouldn't discourage people to go to therapy for their TMS as it has obviously worked for some people.
I agree with you that really Weeks is very consistent with Sarno. For the first time in years, I am allowing myself to feel fearful or angry without judgement or panicking. I guess - that is losing the fear of worry - just like one has to lose the fear of back pain.
I guess it is allowing me to feel feelings and just accept them. I needed an exercise to teach me how to do this. I was continuing to repress feeings, because I would panic every time I got fearful or angry and push them away. So every time, I went to the therapist and I became angry towards my parents, I would go into a massive panic. I was just getting worse. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 17:16:59
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Just FWIW, I still think this was largely due to a bad match between your goals/methods and your therapist's goals/methods. It doesn't sound to me like the therapist was giving you the tools you needed, but rather was leading you in ways that caused you to flounder and not make progress.
This is really common, and it isn't an indictment of therapy in general, but an illustration of the importance of a good match. I had seen counselors before and found the ones I saw utterly useless for me and kind of gave up on therapy for a long time. My current therapist is terrific for me and has helped me so much. I feel that she understands how I work as a person and thus is able to help me be more myself through encouraging me to feel my feelings, and use insight and self-reflection to change unhealthy habits formed due to past experiences.
Strangely enough, I talked to my mother yesterday and she advanced the exact same understanding of the therapy process -- past experiences create unhealthy emotional habits which we then have to work through. So perhaps it has a strain of general truth or perhaps we are just much more similar than I thought so that a similar approach works for both of us. :)
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Curiosity18
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 18:53:34
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ACL-
I'm so glad that you found success with your therapist! You mentioned that she does in her child work. Did you ask her up-front if she did that type of work or did that just come out in therapy? I'm considering going back into therapy, and it seems as though more and more of the TMS experts (Sarno, Schubiner,etc) are encouraging that approach. I have also not had much success with analytical therapy. Like Shorthwick, I just got more and more depressed/anxious and was unable to adequately processes the emotions. The TMS symptoms didn't improve either.
Do you have any suggestions in finding someone who works this way? Or did you just interview a number of folks until you found one you felt comfortable with?
Thanks for all your valuable input!
Curiosity
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 22:47:23
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Here's what I did, which probably isn't easily replicable: I talked to the Center for Creative Growth, which is a Berkeley center that uses the methods of John Bradshaw, which rely heavily on the inner child metaphor. (I had found the CFCG website through some chance on this website and read an essay on there that deeply touched me and sent me looking for Bradshaw's own work, which I also found really helpful.)
Berkeley is too far from me even though it's in my general area, so I asked them, do you know of any Bradshaw-method or similar therapists in my area? And they said, here's the name of one. And I called her and eventually set up to meet with her, and it's worked out well.
So I was extremely lucky, and I don't know if my experience necessarily holds practical methods for finding someone. All I can really offer from my success is that there are compatible therapists out there and you should keep trying until you find one, because it's worth it.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 14:00:35
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| When I looked at the web site of the Center for Creative Growth there was a link for a page that listed therapists familiar with Bradshaw's method. Some of the therapists listed had web sites, and I recall looking at the web site of one woman from Southern California who would do therapy by phone. So for people who aren't near a therapist who uses Bradshaw's method, that might be an option to consider. |
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Spoke to Dr. Sarno
