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Shary
147 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2008 : 18:58:04
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This is for those of you for whom the psychological work hasn't solved your problems, which I suspect includes about everyone on this forum.
After being symptom-free for several months, my symptoms began to return. This time, instead of wracking my brain for unexplored rage, which I had already done extensively, I went to an endocrinologist. Previous to this, I had been told twice by two different GP's that my thyroid is normal. However, following a recent physical, I noticed that my TSH level (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone), was creeping up into the high-normal range of a very broad spectrum--0.4 to 5.5, depending on who you talk to. The endocrinologist indicated that, unfortunately, most GP's don't know enough about the thyroid to realize that the middle range of this ballpark set of figures is probably much too high for some people.
The symptoms for hypothyroidism can be both physical and psychological. They are almost identical to the symptoms for CFS, MPS, and fibromyalgia. In fact, some physicians think fibro can occur as a result of an untreated underfunctioning thyroid gland. Hypothyroid symptoms also mimic those of TMS....so which came first, the chicken or the egg? And does it matter? Probably not. The point here is this: If you suffer from any of the many and varied TMS symptoms and your mental work has gotten you nowhere, get your thyroid checked and get it done by an endocrinologist. If you are within the mid-range of so-called "normal," as I was, and you have symptoms, chances are your thyroid is underfunctioning. Either that or possibly your body isn't able to convert T4 into the more readily usable T3, which, again, means you are hypothyroid and could be having any of 25 or so symptoms, some of which can be downright dangerous. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 06:23:49
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quote:
This is for those of you for whom the psychological work hasn't solved your problems, which I suspect includes about everyone on this forum.
This is simply not even close to being true. |
Edited by - art on 01/12/2008 06:31:22 |
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Shary
147 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 10:30:20
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Yeah, sure.... Whatever...
The point is that not everything is TMS, mind over matter doesn't always work, and ruling out other factors is not always as straightforward as it sounds. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 09:01:26
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Shary,
Point well taken. Your message would have been received better if you just left out the first sentence. |
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Shary
147 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2008 : 11:29:22
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Hi John,
Thanks for your comment. But I'm not interested in how my message is received by TMS die-hardists. My only intent in returning here was to try to help people who are in pain by relating what I discovered.
For those of you who truly have TMS, which I do believe exists, and have recovered, then God bless, because you are very fortunate. My message was aimed toward the many who have not been helped by the psychological work, or have had limited success punctuated by periodic relapses, or have mostly given up on this forum in search of something that will work for them personally. If I have been able to help even one person with this information, then it was worth the effort. |
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Pd245
58 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2008 : 11:37:57
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| Thank you for posting your message about hypothyroidism. Are your symptoms gone now? Are you taking thyroid medication? Just curious. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2008 : 12:46:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Shary
...My only intent in returning here was to try to help people who are in pain by relating what I discovered.
Your "only" intent? Hmm... if you say so. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2008 : 18:42:09
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Shary-
I really appreciate your post on this subject. I recently was told by an endocrinologist that I had Hashimotos thyroiditis based upon very high antibodies. The fact sheet she handed me described muscle pains as a symptom. However as my TSH had gone into the normal range after being low, the endo told me that would not account for the pain (she told me to see an orthapedist!)and to retest my numbers in a few months. It was in fact pain that led me to investigate the thyroid issue once a low TSH was found.
Not sure what labs were off in your case, but were you told that your pain was attributable to the thyroid condition? Are the thyroid meds helping?
Sarno encourages "ruling out" physical causes but I've found this to be the most difficult part of the process. Lots of fuzzy info from less than helpful experts. When I read your post, I wonder whether
I have received correct information. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 01:07:35
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Shary, glad you found something that is helpful for you.
Just some info that may be of use to other members who are wondering about thyroid issues and symptoms:
My husband and I both take thyroid replacement hormone. I have an under-functioning thyroid and my husband had his thyroid totally removed due to cancer.
My chronic pain symptoms began years and years before I developed any thyroid symptoms. I've had episodes when my hormone levels have been so low that I literally couldn't get out of bed. My pain was not worse at those times than it is when my thyroid hormone levels are in the normal range. I can tell when my thyroid level is off by the other typical thyroid symptoms, but there is no change in pain. There is a significant difference in the way the chronic fatigue that I always have as part of the TMS (Dx as Fibro/CFS) feels and the way the fatigue that is a result of a low thyroid hormone level feels. I can definitely tell when my hormone level has dropped, because of the difference in the fatigue.
I've experienced hyperthyroid symptoms at one point when my medication dosage was changed and went too high. Again, other typical thyroid symptoms made it evident the thyroid hormone level was off, but there was no change in the pain.
My husband occasionally has to stop taking his thyroid hormone in order to have a particular test done to make sure that the cancer has not returned. Since he has no thyroid, his hormone level gets so low that he can't get out of bed and just trying to hold his eyelids open is exhausting for him. But it does not cause him to develop any pain.
I also have a few friends who require thyroid replacement hormone and none of them has ever had pain in association with a low hormone level, though they have had the other symptoms that are common to hypothyroidism.
I'm not saying pain can't be a symptom, but no one I know who's on treatment for thyroid issues has ever had pain from low thyroid hormone levels, so it seems to me that it may not be all that common. Still, if you suspect you have a thyroid issue, it's best to get it checked out by a knowledgeable doctor. Two useful books are Mary Shomon's, which someone mentioned before on another thread, "Living Well with Hypothyroidism," and "The Thyroid Solution," by Dr. Arem Ridha, an endocrinologist. |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 09:37:41
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Thyroid imbalance can be emotional-related. The information is out there; there are many books and articles that have been written about cancer, MS, CFS, etc. having emotional ties. And stories of people who have healed themselves by "letting it all out" including probing for childhood issues that have not been released.
Check the SuccessStories part of this site for books I've read this past year--many of which were recommended by fellow board posters. (Thank you for sharing!) And which contain info on the above.
Doctors, psychologists, and other therapists who believe strongly that the mind can cause all these physical problems are out there. Don't give up.
-Lori |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 11:16:05
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Shary,
Well I meant that it would have been better recieved by those who needed to hear it. The fact of the matter is that if you didn't make such a strong statement towards everyone on the forum, then people may have been more willing to consider your main point. There are many people on the forum who have solved many of their pain related issues with the psychological work, and there are many who haven't. |
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Pd245
58 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 12:29:12
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| Littlebird - do you know of anyone with hypothyroid issues who had chronic spasms and muscle soreness problems? The physical medicine specialist I used to see kept giving me a cytomel prescription because I wasn't getting any improvement from physical therapy after five months of treatment and he said I should be healing by now. Btw, my thyroid levels are normal. I never took the cytomel because I want to try Sarno first. But it seems like a lot of naturopaths and integrative medicine types are now touting hypothyroid issues as the cure for many ailments, but particularly chronic pain issues. I mainly have constantly spasming muscles in the upper body which I believe is TMS and conditioning, but the hypothyroid issue is still a future option to pursue. The doctor said you could have normal thyroid tests but still have symptoms. I have lots of doubts about that. |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 13:20:55
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quote:
After being symptom-free for several months, my symptoms began to return.
How in the world did you become symtom-free for several months with out the help of your endocrinologist?
I hope you remain pain free for the rest of your life and I hope I am wrong when I say I smell a placebo effect. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2008 : 14:38:30
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Hi Pd245,
In the book called "The Thyroid Solution," Dr. Arem mentions not everyone experiences the same symptoms with hypothyroidism. He says they may share some of the more common symptoms while some also have less common symptoms. He says some patients do have joint and muscle pain which improves with treatment. I haven't met anyone who had that as a symptom, though I don't know a lot of people with thyroid issues--just my husband, myself, a few friends and a former psychiatrist.
Dr. Arem specifically mentions muscles having a delayed relaxation following contraction in some cases of severe hypothyroidism. I would think there would also be other significant symptoms to alert the patient and doctor that hypothyroidism is the cause. I've never read or heard of anyone with hypothyroidism that didn't have the fatigue. Do you have fatigue as well as pain?
Both Dr. Arem and Mary Shomon say it can be difficult to find doctors who really understand hypothyroidism and there is controversy over just how to interpret TSH levels, as Shary pointed out. If you think you have hypothyroid issues, you may find it useful to check sites like the on Mary Shomon has to look for a doctor near you who doesn't just dismiss symptoms in people whose TSH levels fall in the so-called normal range.
But the point of my post was that muscle pain doesn't seem to be one of the more common symptoms. Even when my husband is intentionally deprived of all thyroid hormone for a certain test, putting him in the severe hypothyroid range, he doesn't develop muscle pain. Maybe he would if he had to be in that state longer than 2 weeks--I don't know. And in my case, there is enough of a difference in the fatigue to recognize when my thyroid hormone level is low and when the fatigue is not related to my thyroid, although it would be hard for someone to know which fatigue they have if they haven't experienced both.
While treating my hypothyroidism has improved the symptoms related to that, I still have some of the symptoms that were diagnosed as Fibro and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, including muscle pain and the non-thyroid type fatigue. TMS methods have eliminated several other debilitating symptoms that I was having, and I feel I'm making gradual progress with the remaining ones.
I wish you well in figuring out the true source of your symptoms. Learning about TMS has benefited me tremendously, but I don't claim that TMS is the cause of all health issues. We all have to figure out for ourselves whether it fits our situation or not--for me it does.
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positivevibes
204 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2008 : 02:28:53
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I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis after the birth of my youngest child, almost 12 years ago. Since then, I have been on an alternating dose of Synthroid. For example, I take 112 mcg one day and 125 mcg the next day and so forth. (One dose is too much and the other is too little, which is why I alternate them).
Most of these 12 years, my TSH has been stable around 1.0. My Endocrinologist wants to keep it around 1.0 because apparently it helps keep the antibodies lower and that's where I feel my best as well.
Well anyway, my previous TSH test and physical was last March (right before I hurt my back). My TSH was actually around 0.58, but I was feeling good and not too hyper. I continued to alternate my doses of Synthoid as usual this year.
So here it is, almost a year later and I got my blood test done for my upcoming annual physical. To my great shock, my TSH is 4.95 -- MUCH higher than it has been in YEARS -- jeez, I think that was the level it had been when I was first diagnosed!! I'm seeing my Endocrinologist on the 29th, but in the mean time have increased my Synthoid to just 125 mcg to help drive down my TSH.
I was shocked to find out that my TSH was so high, because in the past if it had gotten over 2.0 my legs began to ache and I had no exercise endurance. I've had this back problem for almost a year and am finally getting over it. I think Sarno's methods will help keep it away. But I have to wonder if my escalating TSH level had something to do with the reason why my back just wouldn't stop hurting and I keep getting muscle spasms in my back? Is it the reason why I have this pain in the middle of my buttock that never seems to go away? (That pain developed about 6 months ago).
This is so weird...the only "usual" symptom I can pinpoint from a higher than usual TSH is that I've had a lot of trouble concentrating lately and have been feeling very foggy-headed. I figured it was stress, but now I think that my thyroid probably had something to do with it.
From now on I will get a TSH test done every 6 months, no matter how "stable" I have been. I know that my doc will want me to get one done every 3 months for the immediate future. The reason I waited an entire year is that my husband lost his job and we lost our regular insurance benefits and I wanted to wait until the new calendar year began with the new benefits.
Any comments on thyroid problems and muscle pain?
p.s. I have read both Mary Shomon's book and Dr. Arem's book and get Mary's email newsletter. |
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playsinpain
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 14:11:13
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This forum seems to include three basic groups:
1)People searching for answers their experience in the Dr. cycle has been unable to provide. They are at or near the "rock bottom" status usually required to embrace the TMS model. The revelation that the pain they suffer may be harmless and manageable offers genuine hope for the future....these people want to get better, and will certainly benefit from embracing Sarno.
2)People who have found the answers from the TMS model, have benefited from it, believe in it, and want to share it with others;
or, maybe suffer from various transfer of symptom issues and want to make sure Sarno can explain those as well so they can continue moving forward.
3)People with chronic pain who simply want support and reinforcement from others who suffer from chronic pain. This group is notable for its desire to tell all who will listen of their newest symptom and the misery it is visiting on their lives. There is no direction in these posts, simply a need to hear the sympathy and understanding of others.
I believe Group #3 serves the interests of #1 & #2 poorly when they seek to merely wallow in their discomfort or , worse, attempt to argue why Sarno's principles don't apply to people who, if they share one common characteristic, it is that all have explored, at great cost of time and treasure, the multitude of explanations conventional medicine offers. If one doesn't accept TMS as an explanation for their chronic pain, I can't fathom why they participate at this site. Unless they no longer view this forum as a possible answer to their problem, but instead simply as a place to commiserate with other people who share their symptoms.
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2008 : 15:49:19
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I would include another "basic" group- those TMS-prone, perfectionistic personalities that seek to minimize their own anxieties by organizing the world into neat little categories.
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Thyroid Connection
