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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
 Posted - 11/11/2007 : 15:05:21
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Eileen-
I do think menopause adds complicating factors to the whole mix. I asked the TMS doctor about hormones and TMS and he thought it was more of a trigger. I don't think anyone that believes in mindbody medicine can deny the affect of hormonal changes.
Re 9/11- Its odd how I don't really think of it when I journal but yes this did precede my problems by a few years. I used to work right in the vicinity and had loved ones there on that day.
My own opinion is that whatever trauma that day brought has been intensified by the fearmongering that came after. Lets not forget the anthrax scare which came right after-
everyone where I lived was opened their mail with gloves. Perhaps this all got into our psyches more than we realize.
If you really want to speculate, I could see the whole war on terror as a sort of distraction. We are afraid. So we turn out attention to "doing something" to divert ourselves from the fear. Sort of a national psychic crisis played out on the world stage. |
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EileenTM
92 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2007 : 18:39:59
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| I agree with what you are saying. In fact, I think maybe 9/11 may have prompted me into menopause, because even though I was 51, I had not had any symptoms or skipped any periods until the month following 9/11. I spoke to one doctor who said he had patients develop diabetes and high blood pressure in the months that followed. In Sarno's newest book, he refers to it saying it caused people to develop symptoms who had not had them before. I guess that I figured that by this time, I would be better. And while I am definitely better than I was, some symptoms linger. I am going to read Dr. Clarke's book and see what I can learn from that. |
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2007 : 11:34:27
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I highly recommend this book.
It appears that most people do not recover completely from TMS and become pain free for the rest of their lives. The pain frequently comes back, moves around and never seems to go away. This situation is a common theme on the TMS forum. His book provides an answer.
Dr. Sarno recommends therapy for those who follow his treatment program but still have TMS pain. Therapy consists of uncovering the stress that is causing the pain and some course of action to eliminate the stress.
Dr. Clarke applies this procedure with his patients. He interviews his patient until he finds the cause of the stress and then guides his patient to a solution to eliminate the stress.
He doesn't try to convince the patient of Dr. Sarno's theory. There is no acceptance or rejection of the theory. He just goes ahead looking for the cause of the stress and suggests a way to eliminate it.
The four dozen case studies are fascinating. He seems to have the ability and technique of a therapist but his procedures are not too difficult to follow and can be very helpful. He guides the patient in discovering the cause of the stress and the relationship to the pain.
Hopefully, persons who are still suffering with TMS pain will find the case studies helpful in their own cases.
Allan |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 02:40:42
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Thanks Dr. Dave - I've ordered it too.
I'm going to try and attend your talk at Kaiser in Richmond next week. You are busy!!
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 04:15:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan
I highly recommend this book.
The four dozen case studies are fascinating. He seems to have the ability and technique of a therapist but his procedures are not too difficult to follow and can be very helpful. He guides the patient in discovering the cause of the stress and the relationship to the pain.
Hopefully, persons who are still suffering with TMS pain will find the case studies helpful in their own cases.
Allan
agree totally.
I'm halfway thru and the stories have conjured up more thoughts and ideas of what I could be going thru and missing. Particularly the "good partner/bad illness" and the role of repressed resentment.
I'm shocked that Dr. Dave came about this as he admits he had a normal childhood and didn't suffer from any "stress illness" himself (or hasn't mentioned it yet halfway thru) yet was able to put 2&2 together and treat patients this way.
This book so far is a page turner, and some of the stories are hard to get thru as far as the tradgidies some of the patients have been thru and repressed, and could bum you out. I'm still torn up about the story I read yesterday of the 80yr old woman who had symptoms since she was a child and what caused it. But they go on to prove psychosomatic illness beyond a shadow of a doubt.
The differences btwn Dr. Dave and Sarno is that Dr. Dave would be in the Dr. Brady camp that would say emotions are being "expressed thru the body". As opposed to Sarno who says that the symptoms are a "distraction" to not let the emotions get into the concious.
Either way, the treatment appears to be the same. However, Sarno would say to talk to your brain and make it aware you know about the charade/game its playing, and Dr. Dave and Brady are more in the "logic" camp "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body.
I've returned to journaling w/ a passion again since I began reading this book the other day (as opposed to just trying to ignore symptoms and get on w/ life which seemed to work for a bit). I reccomend it. It was available at my library. |
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catwilliams
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 10:45:02
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Dr. Dave,
I just ordered your book as it seems a very natural compliment to my library!
I would very much like to hear your advice around my own book-writing aspirations. I am documenting my own experience, sort of an emotional/physical/psychological memoir companion book to the myriad of doctor-perspective books around mindbody syndrome/TMS/stress illness (whatever you prefer to call it). It seems to me like the 'acute phase' of accepting the diagnosis and moving through a personal treatment plan lacks the 'human' element of compassion. WHen I read most of these posts on this forum, I find plenty of people, like me, who want to feel like they are not alone. And I dont mean that we want to realize that thousands/millions of other people have TMS, but we want to share in the experience of diagnosis acceptance and what that entails... how we FEEL about it as we move through things like dropping meds, dropping PT/doctors, accpeting the role of stress/tension/anger/rage, resuming physical exercise and daily activites we have assumed are 'bad' for us, recognizing the huge role of conditioning, involving our loved ones in our recovery, etc.
Anyway, would love to start a dialog with you and hear more about your experience of writing the manuscript, finding an agent/publisher, the editing process, etc., and hearing whether or not you would like to be involved at any level with this book.
All the best,
Catharine
Be Well! |
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curingCFS
36 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 06:06:34
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Dr. Dave,
Might you have a workbook/cd/dvd in the works? Many people find varied media helpful.
Thanks,
Linda |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 14:25:12
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Originally posted by skizzik: Dr. Dave and Brady are more in the "logic" camp "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body.
Skizzik, I really like the way you put that: "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body. I'm writing that phrase in my journal so I can look at it every day. Nice post.
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 17:02:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Littlebird
Originally posted by skizzik: Dr. Dave and Brady are more in the "logic" camp "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body.
Skizzik, I really like the way you put that: "if" symptoms "then" express them verbally in order to stop the flow of expression thru the body. I'm writing that phrase in my journal so I can look at it every day. Nice post.
 cool thanx |
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Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 22:43:57
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Hello Everyone,
Many thanks for all the supportive posts. What you are writing about my book is completely in sync with what I hear from my patients and from physicians.
For Cat who is working on a book, I highly recommend NonFiction Book Proposals by Elizabeth Lyon and On Writing Well by William Zinsser to introduce you to the book publishing world. I began writing in the winter of 2003 and my book went through 36 drafts (I also hired a professional editor) so it is not an easy process but being able to help patients I will never see in person makes it all worthwhile.
I also agree that the more you write about (or speak into a recording device about) your buried emotions, the less those emotions will need to express themselves through your body in the form of symptoms. The difficulty is in finding those emotions and the stories in my book are designed to help you do that.
My best wishes to you all.
Dave Clarke
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Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2007 : 12:37:25
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quote:
Originally posted by curingCFS
Dr. Dave,
Might you have a workbook/cd/dvd in the works? Many people find varied media helpful.
Thanks,
Linda
I have devoted all my efforts so far to the book "They Can't Find Anything Wrong!" but I like the idea of turning one of my public workshops into a DVD and I will be exploring that in the next few years. Thank you.
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K2toK9
29 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 17:58:58
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Dr. Dave,
I have just ordered your book and I will let you know how it goes once I receive it and read it.
K2toK9 |
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MAbbott
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 21:14:35
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I read this book and really enjoyed it and benefited from it. I think anyone who thinks they have a stress induced physical ailment should read it. The suggestions and exercises really challenge you to dig in there and find what is going on. My only "criticism" is that all the case histories, which make for fascinating reading, seem to be very neat and tidy. That is, the person has one or two complaints, discovers the thread of tension in their life that causes the problems and, voila, problem solved. In reality, I think people who are dealing with deeply buried issues from childhood have many complexities and many layers of physical manifestations.
I would also recommend another book, Dr. Schechter's journal as a way to develop a habit of writing on a daily basis.
Mabbott |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 15:41:00
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Dr. Dave,
I am interested in this topic of childhood stresses, as I was an abused child in every way. Is there a way you can uncover what the exact stressors are? Because with me there are so many traumatic events, they are probably all responsible, yet no therapist has been able to help me get in touch with them. Does your book help people do that? |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2007 : 19:11:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
Dr. Dave,
I am interested in this topic of childhood stresses, as I was an abused child in every way. Is there a way you can uncover what the exact stressors are? Because with me there are so many traumatic events, they are probably all responsible, yet no therapist has been able to help me get in touch with them. Does your book help people do that?
Hopefully Dr. Dave checks back in to answer your post. I'm so sorry for your past Mary.
In case he does'nt come back:
He does have excellent suggestions for getting in touch w/ your emotions.
For instance, observe some kid who resembles you as a child the next time youre near a school yard or a b-day party or something, and imagine that child going thru what you went thru.
How bad would you feel for that child? what advice/support would you give him/her?
I think he even said to write a letter to that child (that you would never give to them) pouring out your empathy for them. Letting them know that whats happening to them is not their fault...etc..
Then you would write letters to those who abused you (w/ no intention of mailing it to them, although he's had patients who did that on a rare occasion. He did'nt imply that was better or worse.) and let them know how they hurt you.
There are several stories in there how patients did these things and rtn'd for the 30 day checkup improved or symptom free.
BTW, as Dr. Dave has found thru his experiences the true cause of many symptoms and the cure thereof; He seems still a bit quick to dole out the anti-depressents to the anxiety/depressed patients.
I'm not sure he sees anxiety/depression as an equivalent as something like gastrointestinal which he reccomends the patient journal out their emotions rather than letting them attack their intestines.
He put many on the anti-depressents w/ good results, but never mentioned if/when he weened people off of them.
Sarno said when someone gets a TMS equivalent like depression and has been successfully treated w/ an antidepressent, the symptom imparative will pop up elsewhere since the "cause" is still there.
If Dr. Dave is still here, I'd like to know if you found a correlation between putting someone on a antidepressent only to have them return weeks or months later w/ (pick your joint) pain, or gastro problems? |
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fup
10 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 05:51:18
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Scott Brady also feels comfortable prescribing antidepressants. Both he and Dave Clarke see depression and/or anxiety as a chemical imbalance, not as a TMS equivelent, which may hold back progress (Scott) or may even be the thing creating most of the stress in the first place (Dave).
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 08:29:05
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Hello Dr. Dave,
I've been a member here for a while and never heard your name or profession. My memory is foggy sometimes, I'm better at faces not names.Glad to see a MD here who knows a thing or three.
Thanks for your work, I'll check out your book and website.
Oh and I forgot to ask if you might transfer your work to audio CD's? I know it's a large task but maybe in the future? And what about "Seminars" on YouTube or Google video, ever thought of that as a possibility?
----------------------------
"It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment." Armchairlinguist(?) |
Edited by - la_kevin on 12/09/2007 08:34:42 |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 12:15:42
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I think pathological anxiety CAN definitely be a TMS equivalent as I have experienced the type of sudden anxiety shift with symptom transition that Dr. Sarno describes in some of his case studies. However, I think depression is a bit trickier. I do think that stress is highly contributory to the development, precipitation, and maintenance of depression, but I think the mechanisms are a little different.
I think the best way to understand the connection between mental stress and depression is to study the work of Dr. Martin Seligman. I think his theory of "learned helplessness" is very interesting and practical for treatment of the majority (uninherited variety) of depression patients. His national bestseller "Learned Optimism" outlines how one can approach treatment for such stress-induced depression.
Best,
MK |
Edited by - mk6283 on 12/09/2007 12:18:49 |
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Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 14:06:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
Dr. Dave,
I am interested in this topic of childhood stresses, as I was an abused child in every way. Is there a way you can uncover what the exact stressors are? Because with me there are so many traumatic events, they are probably all responsible, yet no therapist has been able to help me get in touch with them. Does your book help people do that?
Hello Maryalma,
Let me add my support to you in your struggle. Skizzik's post summarizes my key ideas for finding the place where a person's emotional reaction to child abuse can be found. Once found, those emotions can be expressed verbally (written or spoken) and that has provided considerable relief to many of my patients (though it is by no means an easy process). Other patients are simply not ready for that step and need continued work with their therapist until enough healing has occurred. Check with your therapist for advice about all this.
To respond to other posts, with respect to anxiety and depression, research indicates that counseling and medication are about equally effective and combining the two may be even better. My recommendation about treatment for individual patients is strongly influenced by their personal preference after they hear risks and benefits. Many patients successfully taper medication to zero after 6-12 months but may experience a relapse months or years later.
With regard to video/audio, I plan to produce these eventually but I have been very busy with lectures, broadcast interviews, my day job and my family so it won't be in the near future. |
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Dr Dave
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 14:18:23
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I neglected to respond to a few other posts.
For LA Kevin: Full name is David Clarke, MD and I'm a clinical assistant professor of Gastroenterology at Oregon Health & Science University with a private practice in Portland, OR. More details at www.stressillness.com
Also, for Skizzik, who wanted to know if I found a correlation between putting someone on a antidepressant only to have them return weeks or months later w/ (pick your joint) pain, or gastro problems. My answer is that if you don't find and relieve the hidden stresses in your life then it is likely that your symptoms will relapse even if they responded to medication. Also, if your symptoms are caused by a neurotransmitter deficiency (causing anxiety or depression) then that deficiency can return months or years after successful treatment with medication. It is rare for me to treat someone with medication alone. It is common for me to treat someone with counseling alone. |
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