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mcone
114 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2007 : 17:08:09
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I've been reading this forum for several weeks - many of the experiences described by members here - the physical and emotional - resonate with me strongly and I am impressed the efforts and insights being shared. My (lengthy) Summary:
Physical Health Degenerates Quickly
I'm a 43 year old professional male. Very few physical health problems throughout my life. In May 2006, less than a year and a half ago, things changed abruptly. First I "threw" my back out. (Flare-up a lower back sacroiliac joint - which I recall was "injured" by a lifting injury about ten years ago); Next, in July 2006, I injured my left knee while doing some heavy bicycling. (Ostensibly, hard peddling with some kind of bad technique resulting in a sharp pain - MRI showed only a minor ligament sprain, and later diagnosed as patellar tendon overuse or patellar femoral syndrome).
Right Wrist Problem Turns my Life Upside-Down
Then, in September 2006, my right wrist and forearm developed severe burning pain. (The diagnosis was some type of tenosynovitis from overuse - I had been doing heavy bicycling, and some aggressive motorcylcing with right hand throttle; I was also a moderately heavy computer user - with right-hand mousing, and began using a notebook a couple of years ago).
[I'm *pretty sure* that there was some swelling early on - and it was *believed* that some swelling had persisted the entire year. Yet, after more tests just last month, a vascular surgeon suggested that I may simply have a superficial ulnar artery on my right wrist.]
Symptoms have changed a bit over time. Current, intermittent symptoms are fairly localized, burning pain/soreness in one area (moves around somewhat) - sometimes it spreads down into palm and up into forearm.
[I should note that I developed left arm symptoms too. Upper arm symptoms emerged on my left in October 2006 - these seemed to come from compensatory use/overuse of my left arm - as symptoms went away quickly when I went back to using both arms. Then in May 2007, *while in physical therapy,* symptoms began on my left wrist/forearm (also seemingly from use/overuse). These were similar to those on the right. These persisted for about two or three months - but then seemed to recede.
While the lower back and knee issues still persist to some degree, it is the right wrist pain has turned my life upside down - and it is what I most need help with. After 4 and a half months of unsuccessful therapy in Pennsylvania, I was not able to return to my job (good corporate job) or home (of 16 years) in Minnesota. I ended up moving into to my sister's house in NY - and then some weeks later, finding a room-share in Brooklyn, with all my stuff still in Minnesota.
(This is a huge dilemma for me - whether to focus on restarting my life over again here in NYC - where I'm from originally, where I've always imagined I would settle down - or whether to return to MN - where I've enjoyed the quality of life, and where I have a network of supportive friends)
Support for TMS Diagnosis (Wrist)
The Sarno-based "RSI" recoveries I've learned of (here and elsewhere) are so compelling, that I KNOW I MUST pursue this. In support of the TMS diagnosis:
No *Apparent* Structural Explanation
The testing and assessments cannot readily identify the cause for continued pain. [The first MRI (01/07) was read as entirely normal. One hand surgeon reading the second MRI (05/07), said he saw a small amount of inflammation, and a tiny ganglion showed up in an area without pain. Nerve conduction and vascular testing all normal. Additionally, both the Mayo clinic and a rheumatologist ran full screenings and could not identify anything to explain the problem.]
Stress
I was indeed under enormous stress recent to the onset. I experienced tremendous frustration and supressed hostility over a protracted, unresolved conflict with a supervisor - this was aggravated further by the lack of necessary remedial intervention by management. Additionally, I was conflicted over major life decisions and I am still struggling with these type of "mid-life" issues. All these items have themes of threat to identity, self image and "survival".
Prior Rage
I can identify very significant childhood "issues" including major *losses* and disruptions.
Personality
I fit the type "T" personality type described by Dr. Sarno; people pleaser, high internal standards, sensitive and reactive to injustice.
Effective Distraction
For this entire year, my search for an accurate assessment and diagnosis of my wrist was all-consuming. My experience includes an assessment at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester with no useful diagnosis other than "wrist pain." I eventually left my job in Minnesota to pursue the "gold standard" in *conventional* RSI treatment - four and a half months (3 to 5 days per week) at a physical therapy program in Pennsylvania developed by the author of a leading RSI book.
[For the record, I've been treated (or assessed) by about 8 different facilities, 9 different hand/vascular surgeons or other specialists and 5 different physical therapists; I've had X-rays, MRI's and a cat scan. Treatment included a course of iontopatches early on (initial "apparent" swelling went down and pain was mostly relieved for a few weeks), I've received intensive massage work (somewhat palliative), I've been injected with cortisone (some temporary relief), and I've had a "prolotherapy" treatment with an injection of platelet-rich-plasma.]
"Suspicious" Left Arm Symptoms
It's harder to explain the onset of "similar" symptoms on the left with any type of overuse - especially since I was no longer engaged in occupational computer use or heavy recreational activities.
Prior/Concurrent Equivelents
Depression/Anxiety: Varying degrees over the years - no protracted debilitating depression for about 16 years, but very significant anxiety in the year or two preceding the physical symptoms - including chest pains that would come and go. These were identified as anxiety related and/or costochondritis);
Prior TMS Symptoms
I've had some degree of uncomfortable jaw tension for about 15 years (Over the years, I attributed this to a misadjusted bite). Recently, I have noted that this emerged shortly after a bout with serious depression.
Doubts and Questions
At the same time, I face many challenges in acheiving full belief in the application of TMS to my problem, including: Recurrent thinking of (inconsistent) physiological explanations; Compulsions to critically evaluate the TMS model and "decode" its mechanisms; and inteference from other, not-easily-reconcilable healing models and belief systems.
I could elaborate further, but this is already a taxing read, so it might be best to simply post into other relevant topics as I hope to leverage the collective experience and wisdom of this forum.
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Edited by - mcone on 03/17/2010 18:06:08 |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 17:52:59
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In a tape put out by Dr. Shaechter, a TMS therapist, one of his patients notes that throughout years of pain and multiple doctors (like you as well as myself) not ONE doctor saw fit to ask "What was happening in your life prior to this". As she noted, had this question been asked, she may have been spared years of suffering.
You are fortunate in that you have been to a premier hospital (I was told to go to Mayo but not practical, feasible and in my view unnecessary) without any finding of true pathology. You are aware that you were physically fine until work related stress and other conflicts cropped up. I could go on, but the pieces fit for stress induced illness of some type, call it TMS - personally I don't think the exact label matters.
I see myself in so much of what you describe and that convinces me more than ever that much of our physical pain arises from emotional factors.
At the end of the day, I think you have to ask the question that I did, why after so many doctors and treatments am I not better, but in fact worse. For me, as well as many others, the answer becomes less obvious because we are told we have something serious like degeneration, herniated discs, etc. Like you, I went from one specialist to another, however each one found "something" within their specialty that I suffered from and which I needed treatment for.
Notwithstanding the wrist pain, you managed to type a very long detailed post. (Unless someone else did it for you). I think the answer is obvious.
Time to chuck the doctors - I'm glad I didn't go to the Mayo after reading your post - the fact that after seeing nothing physical to explain your pain they did not consider stress is utterly amazing.
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 18:23:19
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I am sorry that the past 1.5+ years have been so difficult for you. In my opinion, you sound like the prototypical TMS patient. If you keep looking for something structural to explain your symptoms, the radiologists/non-TMS physicians will ALWAYS find something and most of the time it is NOT the cause of your pain. It seems like you have been to enough doctors and tried enough physical therapy, etc. Dr. Sarno once said "therapeutic eclecticism is a sign of diagnostic incompetence." I think your diagnosis is TMS, and the source of your pain lies in the reservoir of your unconscious.
(1) It is imperative that you wholeheartedly believe and accept the diagnosis; trust me, it is highly unlikely that there is any true structural damage that can be explaining your symptoms. (2) Start doing your TMS homework and, if you have to, seek a therapist trained in this type of therapy that may assist you in achieving the breakthroughs you may require.
I think this is a great place to start:
http://www.etex.net/kelving/
See the "Daily TMS exercise and journaling guide" and get started.
(3) What have you got to lose? You've tried everything else out there and have clearly ruled out any "serious" causes of your pain. You have TMS. Congratulations. Now conquer it and start enjoying the rest of your life.
Best,
MK |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 18:28:55
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Have you read Nate's story at http://conquerrsi.com/mystory.html? I recommend it generally, but in particular, he also saw Suparna Damany, which I presume is who you saw. He got better from applying TMS theory, rather than from Suparna's work. I think you'll be able to draw a lot of confidence from his experience.
You've certainly had the requisite medical workup to rule anything else out. You have nothing to lose by going at this wholeheartedly. As my sig says, it's 100% commitment, not 100% belief, that you need to get to. If I might suggest, my story may be helpful to you as well (it's in the Success Stories forum), because I had to really commit to taking action to see results.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 19:19:33
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
not ONE doctor saw fit to ask "What was happening in your life prior to this".
Thanks for your thoughtful comments lidge. While this was all unravelling back in 2006, I was is psychotherapy (mostly behavioral) - I distinctly remember sharing with my (very capable) therapist the idea that stress must be somehow dysregulating my nervous system - and causing me physical problems. She didn't dismiss this - and even seemed to agree, but it was unclear what to do about it. The Mayo clinic also observed that I was suffering from "severe anxiety" but did not highlight the association - and did not provide any useful clinical direction (I received a prescription for a minor tranquilizer). It wasn't until I learned of the Sarno "RSI" recoveries that I started connecting the dots.
quote:
Originally posted by lidge
I see myself in so much of what you describe and that convinces me more than ever that much of our physical pain arises from emotional factors.
Did you also experience a sudden onset of many physical problems - after being pretty healthy? Another member here, Anthonee, describes this.
quote:
Originally posted by lidge
For me, as well as many others, the answer becomes less obvious because we are told we have something serious like degeneration, herniated discs, etc. Like you, I went from one specialist to another, however each one found "something" within their specialty that I suffered from and which I needed treatment for.
Despite the general lack of "objective" findings for my wrist, the conventional "RSI" theory poses many theoretical (perhaps speculative) explanations for having physical damage absent such findings, i.e. microscarring, damaged nerves, aged tissue etc. - I was basically indoctrinated by the PT program I was in for over 4 1/2 months (which is regarded as possibly the best in the world - people came in from England, Germany, etc.). Plus, the ingenuity of my anxious mind never quits at dreaming up more physiological explanations.
quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Notwithstanding the wrist pain, you managed to type a very long detailed post. (Unless someone else did it for you). I think the answer is obvious.
Good Point!
quote:
Originally posted by lidge
Time to chuck the doctors - I'm glad I didn't go to the Mayo after reading your post - the fact that after seeing nothing physical to explain your pain they did not consider stress is utterly amazing.
I've actually begun consulting with some of the TMS doctors in my area. No more pure physical doctors.
OT comment on Mayo: I was VERY un-impressed with Mayo. They're main focus (at least in Rochester, MN) seems to be an aging patient population with degenerative diseases such as heart disease and cancer - attempting to cheat death with the highest tech, most expensive interventions and surgery money can buy. (They don't even have the highest tech in all areas - I later learned that they didn't even have the more powerful 3.0 MRI machine, but only used a low rez 1.5 machine.
And despite having so many disciplines, resources, and brain power "under one roof" they do not employ an integrated approach. In my case, despite the obvious (screaming!) level of mental distress I was in, they still chose to treat each symptom in a compartmentalized, fragmented way (i.e. psychiatrist for anxiety, PT for your knee, etc.) |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 19:33:33
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quote:
Originally posted by mk6283
I am sorry that the past 1.5+ years have been so difficult for you. In my opinion, you sound like the prototypical TMS patient.
* * * (1) It is imperative that you wholeheartedly believe and accept the diagnosis; trust me, it is highly unlikely that there is any true structural damage that can be explaining your symptoms.
I appreciate the direction mk. At times, I do wholeheartedly believe, and yet sometimes, doubt gets the upper hand - or maybe doubt is also lingering below the surface a bit. I did spend many, many months reading about every type of muscle/tendon tissue pathology that exists - I've stopped doing this of course, but the concepts linger. Still, I know it is impossible to dismiss or deny the success people have had - and my symptoms (at least the wrist) are similar to what other people have had with "RSI" - people that have recovered completely. |
Edited by - mcone on 10/22/2007 19:34:44 |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 20:03:04
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Have you read Nate's story at http://conquerrsi.com/mystory.html? I recommend it generally, but in particular, he also saw Suparna Damany, which I presume is who you saw. He got better from applying TMS theory, rather than from Suparna's work. I think you'll be able to draw a lot of confidence from his experience.
You've certainly had the requisite medical workup to rule anything else out. You have nothing to lose by going at this wholeheartedly. As my sig says, it's 100% commitment, not 100% belief, that you need to get to. If I might suggest, my story may be helpful to you as well (it's in the Success Stories forum), because I had to really commit to taking action to see results.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment.
I was hoping one of the recovered "RSI" folks would chime in. Your story - and your posts, which I've been reading - are inspiring. I did, in fact, speak to Nate over the summer, after leaving (you guessed it) Suparna Damany's program.
Perfect segue on topics now being discussed - Whether emphasis is on identifying repressed rage (thinking psychological) or whether success ultimately rides on desensitizing the nervous system and breaking pain/fear cycle (Nate's emphasis).
I thought this was interesting:
"'TMS Purist' as an Identity"
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4035
quote:
Originally posted by unamed response to shawnsmith
Simpler two-step process: 1) write down all the things you would do
tomorrow if you woke up without pain. 2) go do them. No excuses, no
exceptions. Tough love, but I think of it more as recommitment to
living and contributing to the lives of those who love and depnd on
me, the whole me.
While doing them you will probably notice certain muscles tense up in
different areas, and your pain will move from place to place. This is
all to be expected. You must fight the urge by commanding yourself not
to succumb to the urge to stretch, wiggle around, lie down, rest,
slump in a couch or chair, or for God's sake, pull out HBP or other
Sarno screed and start reading or visit the forum. If you like, it
might do you some good to read a success story or two first thing just
to get revved up.
Then do the same thing the next day and the next and the next.
* * *
and I thought this was pretty wise too:
What works "challening the pain...or thinking psychologic"
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4037
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
The short answer is: both, or either. Trust yourself and do what works for you. * * *
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 21:57:43
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Thanks, I'm glad you've found my posts helpful!
I do feel that throughout my recovery the constant has been to trust myself. First to trust my instincts about whether I had the syndrome, then to figure out how to best treat it for myself, and since then, in how to pursue emotional work and in just trusting my emotions, in many ways for the first time in my life. Recovering from TMS has been a true liberation for me in both physical and emotional senses.
I ended up essentially doing concurrent pain-challenging and emotional exploration, which I think was an approach that worked well because it strengthens identified connections with the emotions while giving back positive reinforcement through the physical success. I've been pain-free for over a year now (since May 2006) and am still doing ongoing emotional work through therapy and journaling, which has led me to do a lot less repressing in the first place.
I hope you also find a positive path from here on!
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 12:22:51
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Mcone:
If you are currently in Brooklyn, why not go see Dr. Sarno? He's on the east side of Manhattan at the Rusk Bldg of NYU! Through a tunnel under the East River and you're there!
-Lori |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 15:48:42
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quote:
Originally posted by mcone
Did you also experience a sudden onset of many physical problems - after being pretty healthy? Another member here, Anthonee, describes this.
I have indeed posted about sudden onset of many problems, all within the span of about 12-18 months. It's all orthopedic trouble, mostly muscle and tendon injury and pain. One problem I haven't written much about is my right wrist pain. It started a year ago, not sure exactly what I did. But I suspected it was from some mountain biking I had done, or maybe an overuse injury from the power drill I was using while building some stairs for my parents deck. It seems much less serious than what you describe, and for my own personal situation it has been the least of my worries. But it does hurt quite badly at times. The most painful thing to do is the motion required to pick up a carton of milk. When it's acting up I really need to let it rest. I have never had anybody look at it, I've been overwhelmed with other issues.
What you might be especially interested to make note of is the correlation with anxiety and depression. I have had 3-4 minor bouts with depression since my early twenties, and have successfully treated with short term and low dose SSRI. But until spring of '05 I had never had even the slightest anxiety symptom. I was also a model of physical fitness and health.
As I wrote in one of my previous posts, I took Klonopin to help with sleep. Only after a rapid discontinuation of Klonopin did I learn the horror of acute anxiety. And boy did I ever learn the hard way. Prior to that time in my life I had been remarkably healthy, and a very strong and enthusiastic athlete. Physical fitness and good health, nutrition, etc, were like a hobby for me.
It took me nearly a full year to recover my sense of psychological balance. It was only then that I started having problem after problem after problem. It seems like I can hardly get out of bed in the morning without pulling one muscle or another. Sad coincidence with also turning 40, which has made it more confusing for me. I know 40 is the age when problems occur for many people, so I ask myself if this is just what age does? Or is it more related to the psychological turmoil I endured?
So about two months ago I learned about TMS and joined this forum. I have been working diligently to apply what I've learned to my own personal case. While not (yet) a success story, I have made notable improvement. I am in the gym twice per week doing a healthful jaunt on some aerobic machine, followed by comprehensive stretching and (very!) light weight training. I've even gone for a short sunday morning jog recently. I am trying to always remember that the pain is not harmful (as evidenced by the fact that I seem to get no worse with activity) and I try very hard to control any anxiety it may produce.
I struggle with some of the underpinnings of TMS theory, mostly because I'm an overly critical engineering/physics type and the freudian repression of emotions is an awfully fluffy concept for a hard science guy like me. But I'm solidly committed to the idea of a psychogenic and/or psychosomatic "disease" process, and I'm working hard to put it to good use.
But I am keenly aware of the connection with anxiety, and this is why I am interested to add to this thread. You make it very clear about your difficulty with anxiety and depression, and you are also in the same age group, suffering some challenges with a very similar theme. The acute anxiety has long since dissipated for me, but I still do get occasional general anxiousness from the physical disability that I perceive. Especially if feel like something is not healing. I second guess TMS quite frequently, and think maybe this is all some side effect of occasional SSRI usage, or maybe some side effect of the benzodiazapine family of drug that I took. Or maybe it's just age. Or maybe it's a secondary effect of anxiety and depression. Or maybe it just plainly and simply **TMS*** exactly as Sarno has described. I don't know yet, but I'm very happy to share with you the experience I'm having as I work through it and try to make progress.
Collectively I think we can all help one another by sharing thoughts about our experiences. Welcome to the forum and I look forward to seeing how you too progress as you learn more about this. |
Edited by - AnthonEE on 10/24/2007 15:54:25 |
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vikki
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 19:00:57
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mcone,
You sound a lot like me, with the sudden onset of symptoms and your concerns/fears.
Around my 30th birthday, I experienced minor foot pain while running. I could have (and probably should have) ignored it. But I started researching it on the Internet. That's when my problems started. There is a *ton* of nonsense out there about how vigorious exercise is bad for you, you should power walk instead of running, once you turn 30 your joints fall apart, etc., etc. I freaked out and took a week off running. I did the stationary bike instead. During a vigorous bike workout, I felt pain in my hips and thighs. Of course, I started researching it, and I decided it was probably sciatica or piriformis syndrome.
I stopped doing all forms of exercise, but it only got worse. Within a week, I could not sit -- my butt hurt too much! At some point, my neck and shoulders started hurting too. I saw doctors, physical therapists, and chiropractors, but no help.
There was one point in all the craziness that I started thinking about psychosomatic problems. I was looking at chronic pain websites, and I was reading a description of TMJ (jaw pain). Within 5 minutes, my jaw started hurting. (I'd never had jaw pain before.) But I wasn't ready at this point to consider a psychosomatic cause. Several months later -- after I'd had several MRIs and blood tests that were all negative -- I came across Sarno. Within 3 days of reading the book, my pain had diminished a bit. I gained the confidence to go for long walks, and I even threw in a little running. (I can't tell you how great that felt!)
I still could not sit. Then one day, I was on a cross-country flight, roaming the aisles because I couldn't sit. I thought, "You know, let's just see what happens if I sit through the rest of this flight." So I sat. The pain was excruciating. I remember trying to concentrate on my magazine. But I did not let myself get up. The next day -- the *very* next day -- I had a big improvement. I continued with this pattern for a while. I'd challenge the pain somehow -- e.g., go on a 10-mile hike. The next day, I'd see an improvement. I made a decision that I would not let pain stop me from doing things. I would take painkillers when needed, but I would get on with my life and stop focusing on my pain. And slowly, over several months, I got my life back.
Your doubts and concerns also sound like mine. You say:
"At the same time, I face many challenges in acheiving full belief in the application of TMS to my problem, including: Recurrent thinking of (inconsistent) physiological explanations; Compulsions to critically evaluate the TMS model and "decode" its mechanisms; and inteference from other, not-easily-reconcilable healing models and belief systems."
I have a tendency to overthink things too. That is why my TMS strategy was to stop thinking and "just do it." It does not matter if you don't fully understand the TMS model. It doesn't even matter if you believe it 100% or have concerns about physiological problems. My advice is, just start acting like you believe in TMS. That is, act like there is nothing physically wrong with you (even though you may fear there is). Decide that you are going to do "activity X" for a certain number of hours, despite the pain and despite your fears.
You can overcome this. Good luck! |
Edited by - vikki on 10/24/2007 19:05:18 |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 21:58:05
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quote:
Originally posted by AnthonEE
I have indeed posted about sudden onset of many problems, all within the span of about 12-18 months. It's all orthopedic trouble, mostly muscle and tendon injury and pain.
quote:
Originally posted by vikki
You sound a lot like me, with the sudden onset of symptoms and your concerns/fears.
* * *
I stopped doing all forms of exercise, but it only got worse. Within a week, I could not sit -- my butt hurt too much! At some point, my neck and shoulders started hurting too. I saw doctors, physical therapists, and chiropractors, but no help.
* * *
Within 5 minutes, my jaw started hurting. (I'd never had jaw pain before.) But I wasn't ready at this point to consider a psychosomatic cause. Several months later -- after I'd had several MRIs and blood tests that were all negative -- I came across Sarno.
Our experiences are eerily similar - we are all suddenly afflicted with some mysterious "soft-tissue vulnerability disease" that cannot be diagnosed by conventional means...
quote:
Originally posted by AnthonEE
But I suspected it was from some mountain biking I had done, or maybe an overuse injury from the power drill I was using while building some stairs for my parents deck.
This phenomenon is one of the most difficult for me to reconcile with TMS theory - i.e., the pain seems to have followed a physical use/overuse - and symptoms continue to follow a pattern of physical injury (in many, but not always all, respects). Soreness in my knee, for example, *generally* increases after a long walk, or repeated days of exercise. At times, I have theorized that the (TMS-mediated?) muscle tightening/tension is what created the vulnerability to injury in the first place. At other times, I've theorized that the (TMS-mediated?) impaired tissue metabolism or oxygen deprivation is responsible for delayed or inadequate recovery times. This is one of the biggest struggles I have with TMS theory.
(In response, I remind myself that there are times when my wrist is resilient to moderate amounts of activity and other times when it hurts without much provocation at all - not consistent with an acute physical injury. And my knee has also, at times, defied the expected aggravation with activity. For now (until I can get back to more serious sports or occupational activity), I remind myself that its extremely unlikely that any ordinary daily functional activity I can do will injury me.)
quote:
Originally posted by AnthonEE
What you might be especially interested to make note of is the correlation with anxiety and depression. * * * I was also a model of physical fitness and health.
* * *
Only after a rapid discontinuation of Klonopin did I learn the horror of acute anxiety. * * * It was only then that I started having problem after problem after problem. It seems like I can hardly get out of bed in the morning without pulling one muscle or another.
* * *
* * *
But I am keenly aware of the connection with anxiety, and this is why I am interested to add to this thread.
Anxiety seems to be the common precursor to the pain syndrome for so many of us - regardless of whether it arises naturally (from stress) or whether it results from drug withdrawal effects.
quote:
Originally posted by AnthonEE
Sad coincidence with also turning 40, which has made it more confusing for me. I know 40 is the age when problems occur for many people, so I ask myself if this is just what age does? Or is it more related to the psychological turmoil I endured?
I've also asked myself this question about age. Yet, I'm not so inclined to think that some (medically unrecognized) biological consequence of aging could wreck so much havoc so abruptly - especially since 1. the association with anxiety is so conspicuous, and 2. people have gone through this and have recovered completely (via treatment that does not involve aging mechanisms).
quote:
Originally posted by AnthonEE
I struggle with some of the underpinnings of TMS theory, mostly because I'm an overly critical engineering/physics type and the freudian repression of emotions is an awfully fluffy concept for a hard science guy like me. But I'm solidly committed to the idea of a psychogenic and/or psychosomatic "disease" process, and I'm working hard to put it to good use.
That is pretty much where I'm coming from. Even if one struggles with the idea that pain serves a diversionary purpose against repressed emotions, one might accept the idea that repressed emotions or stress can dysregulate the autonomic nervous system and precipitate the physiological changes (i.e. reduced blood flow) that Dr. Sarno describes. Nate McNamara, who recovered from "RSI" has suggested something along these lines. http://conquerrsi.com/handout.html . Regardless, the path to resolution is more or less the same: thinking psychological (or somehow bringing anxiety - regardless of its source or purpose - under control) and challenging the pain - to recondition nervous system responses to physical stimuli.
quote:
Originally posted by AnthonEE
I am trying to always remember that the pain is not harmful (as evidenced by the fact that I seem to get no worse with activity) and I try very hard to control any anxiety it may produce.
quote:
Originally posted by vikki
I made a decision that I would not let pain stop me from doing things. I would take painkillers when needed, but I would get on with my life and stop focusing on my pain. And slowly, over several months, I got my life back.
* * *
That is why my TMS strategy was to stop thinking and "just do it." It does not matter if you don't fully understand the TMS model. It doesn't even matter if you believe it 100% or have concerns about physiological problems. My advice is, just start acting like you believe in TMS. That is, act like there is nothing physically wrong with you (even though you may fear there is). Decide that you are going to do "activity X" for a certain number of hours, despite the pain and despite your fears.
I am beginning to do this (despite reservations as described). I'm no longer "protecting" my arms from normal every day activities (I shop, wash dishes, carry things, etc.) And I do go to the gym and use weights moderately. My next phase will be getting the courage to use a computer (especially the mouse, which I'm still avoiding) at occupational levels.
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Edited by - mcone on 10/24/2007 22:14:40 |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 22:31:56
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Mcone: your story is so classic TMS it's not even close! Do yourself a huge favor and do not overanalyze, i know the temptation because i am the reigning champion of overanalysis. 
Once you fully recognize what is obvious to those of us who have been through extremely similar experiences, your confidence will grow because your body will respond quickly to this 'attack' on the original presumtion of some physical problem. The initial reaction may be negative--but your body will react. Take not of that reraction because it will just serve to strengthen the conviction that the symptoms are psychogenic. Don't even think about seeing another doctor. Completely challenge any and all symptoms by doing everything and anything you would do were you feeling 100%. The details are not significant--just understand the basic source, reject the front your psyche is putting up, and get on with life, hopefully taking postive steps. Be aware that this process is not understood well, and don't beat yourself up (as i have been prone to doing) for not being able to put every peice of the puzzle together.
There is not much good logical explanation for how/why the psyche reacts the way it does. Good luck! |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2007 : 09:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by mcone
Our experiences are eerily similar - we are all suddenly afflicted with some mysterious "soft-tissue vulnerability disease" that cannot be diagnosed by conventional means...
Yes, there are many of us. Not sure what the precise age distribution is, but there are not just 40+ folks here, several 20's and 30's that should be far removed from age related degeneration. The very fact there are so many others has given me a lot of comfort, especially since so many have claimed to have made recovery.
quote:
This phenomenon is one of the most difficult for me to reconcile with TMS theory - i.e., the pain seems to have followed a physical use/overuse - and symptoms continue to follow a pattern of physical injury (in many, but not always all, respects)
Almost always. I can trace each of a dozen or more problems to some specific overuse (a very relative term for me these days) or injury. Then it seems to superficially heal, only to recur in the near future with even moderate activity, and then it becomes a chronic battle. Based on the "knowledge" it was caused by injury that happened too easily, and I was not recovering, I suspected and passionately pursued every possible explanation you could imagine: nutrition, sleep, endocrine problem, rheumatology problem, side effects of medication or vaccination, gulf war syndrome, lyme disease, etc. I have had 6 MRIs in the past 24 months. I am on a first name basis with many orthopedists at some of Boston's finest medical institutions. Yet... NOTHING! Well except for a torn rotator cuff that I had fixed. That seemed pretty much non psychological...
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Anxiety seems to be the common precursor to the pain syndrome for so many of us
It is astounding how many this applies to. I haven't figured out which causes which. For me the anxiety came first, but now seems inextricably intertwined with the physical challenges. Maybe it doesn't matter. Perhaps they are one and the same. Regardless they seem to go hand in hand.
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That is pretty much where I'm coming from. Even if one struggles with the idea that pain serves a diversionary purpose against repressed emotions, one might accept the idea that repressed emotions or stress can dysregulate the autonomic nervous system and precipitate the physiological changes
Exactly! I still don't know if I can accept the repression of emotions deal, but my mind continues to be open to the idea. I certainly can (and do) accept that the autonomic system being chronically out of equilibrium can cause great physiological harm. No doubt in my mind. The good news is the way to deal with the outcome (pain etc) and the prognosis are possibly very similar regardless how you interpret the mechanisms, which are acknowledged by all, medical doctors included, to be mysterious and poorly understood.
But maybe an important point here. You are very analytical and seem to be swimming very hard to fit all this together into a logical working model within your head. I do exactly the same, to the n-th degree, and I've been advised to avoid this. Against what others might advise, I think this is a very important step. If you are anything like me, then it will be impossible to fully accept this for what it is until after you've given it full analysis and pieced together a consistent understanding in your mind. Some have an easier time with it. But for many, like me, it may be necessary to critically analyze it to death in the beginning, with the idea that if you're lucky you'll come out on the other end (sooner rather than later) with a conclusion that leads to a deep fundamental acceptance, and a real commitment to yourself to work in this direction.
But then, after a clear, consistent, and credible interpretation of TMS, AOS, or whatever you call it emerges in your mind, it is then important to commit to it. That's the only way you can continue to challenge the physical problems, if you have deeply accepted that it will not harm you. I think it is the acceptance that diffuses the anxiety, and that seems to be such an important piece. I think it is difficult for me, especially on bad days. I continue to second question the cause of my problems. But believe me when I tell you, and you probably already know based on your extensive interaction with conventional medicine: Whatever it is that is troubling me, and probably you, and many others as well, is either beyond the resolution and/or comprehension of western medicine, or it is some psychosomatic result of autonomic dysfunction, physiological or otherwise. We've invested enormous resources in to trying to solve this in a conventional way. And unless the CDC suddenly announces the cause of some mysterious "soft-tissue vulnerability disease", then the conventional way is clearly not the correct path!
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Edited by - AnthonEE on 10/25/2007 10:47:42 |
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vikki
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 08:17:38
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quote:
Originally posted by mcone
This phenomenon is one of the most difficult for me to reconcile with TMS theory - i.e., the pain seems to have followed a physical use/overuse - and symptoms continue to follow a pattern of physical injury (in many, but not always all, respects). Soreness in my knee, for example, *generally* increases after a long walk, or repeated days of exercise. At times, I have theorized that the (TMS-mediated?) muscle tightening/tension is what created the vulnerability to injury in the first place. At other times, I've theorized that the (TMS-mediated?) impaired tissue metabolism or oxygen deprivation is responsible for delayed or inadequate recovery times. This is one of the biggest struggles I have with TMS theory.
I think Sarno would say this was conditioning -- you are conditioned to expect soreness in your knee after long walks and repeated exercise, so you feel it.
Personally, based on my own experience, I think a lot of this is about pain threshhold. If you are worried about you knee, you are much more sensitive to any abnormal sensations coming from it. Yes, exercise stresses your joints and muscles -- that is how it makes you stronger. From a physical perspective, the stress on your knee is not a big deal -- your knee can take it. You are probably just overly sensitized to it. By changing your beliefs about its importance, I think you can reprogram your pain threshhold. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2007 : 11:14:56
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quote:
and symptoms continue to follow a pattern of physical injury (in many, but not always all, respects). Soreness in my knee, for example, *generally* increases after a long walk, or repeated days of exercise. At times, I have theorized that the (TMS-mediated?) muscle tightening/tension is what created the vulnerability to injury in the first place.
This contains two inaccuracies from the point of view of TMS theory and my experience with TMS. One, going for a long walk or exercising for several days is not causing injury. You really need to change this view that activity = injury.
Second, muscle-tightening/tension is related purely to the TMS process and does not cause injury or make one prone to it. I have a theory (not really verifiable through simple means but highly plausible) that reduced oxygen flow to the muscles causes the muscles to tighten and knots (trigger points) to form. Trigger points are activated by TMS or stress to create pain. They are not injury, do not make you prone to injury, and you don't have to get rid of them (loosen up your muscles) to return to 'health'. As soon as I started challenging the pain, my pain went away, but physically speaking many of my muscles are still a bit tight and have trigger points in them.
As vikki said, your pain's relation to activity is through conditioning. You expect pain and therefore get it. This is the part of TMS that is actually most difficult to overcome when it is particularly ingrained, and I recommend checking out Fred Amir's book if you need some help overcoming conditioning.
If you are having trouble accepting the repressed emotions stuff, I actually would recommend doing some journaling of the form 'what pressures am/was I under', not omitting small things or things that you think you are happy about. I think you'll find it pretty informative how long the list can get.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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