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res
USA
53 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2007 : 15:18:13
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I have read alot of the success stories and read all of the books. I have been struggling with a flare up of sciatica after several pain free years. So my question is... have you fellow TMSers found better results with thinking psychologically or challenging the symptoms (like Fred Amir advocates)? Sometimes I feel that all of the psychological stuff just makes me feel bad about things, which makes me depressed, which makes me worry, which makes things worse.
Renee |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 15:31:25
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For me, challenging the symptoms seems to work best.
But I think that thinking psychologically is important, too. I think there is an art to it and there's loads of good advice on this forum. There's a difference between "wallowing" and experiencing the emotions, but it's not always easy to differentiate.
Hilary N |
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res
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 19:54:22
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| I had read that Baseball65 had really pushed to challenge the pain. I try to do in depth journaling, but like I said, it seems to make me depressed which seems to make me worse. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 14:47:47
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Then maybe you should take a break from the journalling?
Hilary N |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 15:31:39
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I think the advice given in many of these books takes no account of individual differences in life experiences, perception, coping ability etc.
If you have alot of unpleasant memories, "thinking psychologically" can definitely
worsen things- I assume the point of journaling is that somehow by writing it down you
take it out of your head and onto the paper.
Sarno talks about the 20% who need psychotherapy but my bet is that the figure is higher.
Its very hard to sort through this alone. I think we often need someone to help us
but we would all like to think we are part of the majority Sarno speaks of that can
do it just with the books. I think that 80% figure is setting false expectations
for alot of us. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 15:41:07
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Journaling doesn't catch everything you're feeling. It can become routine and you start jotting things down like a robot. I'm a bigger fan of changing the WAY you see your life once you acknowledge what the "it" is that's bothering you. It also takes all the factors like getting back to regular activities, dealing with childhood trauma(honestly), giving yourself a break, changing inner dialog, paying attention to how you think others view you. So many people place emphasis on journaling as if it is the last anchor to getting better. What if you have a personality of avoidance?? What then? Do you honestly think that journaling will help you if you just do the cliche "jot down what's on your mind" routine? My theory is that if the journaling isn't stirring deep emotions, fears, sadness, anger, crying, or any other crap, you're basically going through the motions.
Journal Entry From Person A: "My life is **** right now. I miss having friends and haven't had a girlfriend for a long time. I feel like the biggest ****ing loser on the planet. I'm scared to get close to people because the chronic pain has been here so long I avoid life . I've actually grown scared of life in many ways. I feel like this has taken so much from me I just want to scream or blow something up"
Journal entry From Person B: "I woke up today and had breakfast. I had pain in my arm again. I will try to ignore it today but I'm really frustrated. My Dad is buying a house and I'm excited for him and Mom. My car is squeaking and I need to get the brakes fixed"
Person A or B? which are you?
If you aren't willing to be totally honest about your life and your fears, you're pissing in the wind. This post isn't aimed at anybody in particular, just felt it needed to be said that the subject came up. |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 15:46:14
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BTW,
You would be AMAZED at what therapy can do for you that you couldn't do or "see" for yourself. But so many people think they can master TMS or their mind if they're "smart enough". How foolish. It's maybe that "smart mind" that got people where they are in the first place, because they never liked EMOTIONS, or emotions became dangerous.
Something to think about. Philosophizing and trying to "Outsmart" TMS (AOS) isn't going to cut it IMHO. Your unconscious mind that remembers being slapped in the head by your Father 25 years ago, like it was yesterday, doesn't "do" philosophy. Got it? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 18:37:02
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The short answer is: both, or either. Trust yourself and do what works for you. I had to do plenty of both to succeed in getting rid of my TMS.
There are different ways to approach journaling that can be more or less helpful. It's not really intended to set you ruminating and worrying. I tend to approach it as "write this down and get it out of my head, don't think too much while writing" and it's just the fact of my feeling that needs to be recorded. Nothing necessarily needs to be done about it. The acknowledgment of its existence is pressure-relieving. But if it doesn't work for you then don't do it, try other ways of working.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 10/22/2007 21:59:38 |
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smashist
19 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2007 : 00:35:27
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Journal Entry From Person A: "My life is **** right now. I miss having friends and haven't had a girlfriend for a long time. I feel like the biggest ****ing loser on the planet. I'm scared to get close to people because the chronic pain has been here so long I avoid life . I've actually grown scared of life in many ways. I feel like this has taken so much from me I just want to scream or blow something up"
-----
This looks a lot like my journal entries. I actually frequently finding myself wanting to smash something, like a TV.
yeah right. |
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res
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2007 : 08:25:57
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| I guess I have been trying to be like the Helen example from Sarno's books. I have tried to feel the emotions while journaling in hopes that I will release the emotion. I guess that this isn't how I am supposed to do the jounaling ???? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2007 : 13:50:26
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res, I think you probably want to try another way of journaling. Not everyone can be like Helen -- in fact, Sarno says that her experience is unusual.
I started off with a laundry list of possible pressures on the unconscious (note: not necessarily the same as your conscious feelings about things), which I made gradually by thinking about pressures in various areas, like job, friends, family, etc. I also looked at past events that I felt had affected me negatively and what I might not have really realized I was feeling at the time. Just making the list was helpful, and then later I would go back and expand on the feeling or event.
While journaling, if you feel something, let yourself feel it. Write what you feel and how you feel -- you can go out of the lines, scribble, write things that aren't sentences, etc. If you don't feel directly, and you're just imagining how you might be feeling unconsciously, that's ok too. I think it's more likely you'll contact some of your feelings if you remain open to the possibility rather than actively trying to make it happen. But remember it's not generally necessary. Acknowledging the possibility of the feelings, and exploring what they might be, along with realizing that they're normal and human, is the most important part.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Mary Ann
Canada
42 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 12:18:51
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quote:
Originally posted by res
So my question is... have you fellow TMSers found better results with thinking psychologically or challenging the symptoms (like Fred Amir advocates)?
Renee
Neither, really. For me it was just going with the pain until it was gone. I think it was Scottydog who had a good expression in a recent post: it's a metter of "bearing the pain" rather than fighting it.
I got rid of my main TMS complaint (shoulder pain) 8 years ago just knowing how it worked and going on as if I didn't hurt. More recently I rid myself of food reactions after I realized that it would get worse for a while before it got better (working through the conditioning). In both cases, once I decided to go with it, it was just a matter of a 3 or 4 weeks before I was completely symptom-free.
I have never used journalling as a method. Not really against it, just haven't needed it.
Mary Ann |
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Jeff4460
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2007 : 13:00:33
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I say challenge the symptons. For me the most effective way to get this done was to do the things that I had given up because of back pain. Softball, golf, and water skiing were the 3 big ones for me. The softball and water skiing were easy to overcome. I do each of them a few times a year...I have some muscle soreness for a day or two, and then everything is fine. The golf took a little longer because it was more mentally challenging than physically challenging. Once I was able to relax on the golf course and just enjoy playing...the pain just vanished. (The onset of my back pain came the day after playing golf. So for years while I was battleing the back pain I had falsely beleived that golf had caused my back problems.)
How do you prepare to do the things that you had to give up?...think phychologically the day before. I try to visulize in my mind how I'll feel the day after I play golf. I don't dwell on what will happen while I'm playing golf, I look to the next day. And on that next day I see myself feeling great and bragging about how well I played. I really think it's important to visualize your sucess after the task...not actually doing the task.
(I hope this makes sense...it did when I visualized it a few minutes ago!!!!!!!)
Jeff
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what works...challenging pain or think psychologic
