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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2007 : 11:42:50
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Reading the board lately, references to being a "TMS purist", or "Sarno purist", seemed to be an ego identification with the good doctor, or perhaps with the affliction? Are we separated into being "pure", and what else, "impure"? (impure is fine,too) If it is identification with the affliction, then is this giving the mind another tool to hold on to, and control the afflicted person(s)?
This read like a "Freudian slip", showing attachment to the pain.
I was attached to my pain for years, not knowing until it was gone. Perhaps if you have "pure tms pain", it's good, and should stay? Or, am I just having impure thoughts, maybe I could change my identity to Al the impure, sounds more rebellious, doesn't it? |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 12:05:18
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| Good point Al. If I was trying to get across the atlantic ocean and one ship got me half way there and started sinking, bet your bottom dollar that I'm jumping off and onto another boat that can get me the rest of the way there. The problem is that I've only found about 2-3 other good "boats" out there along with a bunch of scams and/or other worthless "remedies". I think many people get stuck in this middle ground and have nowhere good to turn so they either cling back to Sarno because there are no other good options (or atleast in their immediate vision). |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 12:19:24
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I do believe, and I know its true for me, that I want to believe 100% in Sarno's theories because, as John says, nothing else has worked.
But I know the craving for certainty is a human desire, but as Bertrand Russell points out, also an intellectual vice.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt".-Bertrand Russell
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 13:21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by altherunner
Reading the board lately, references to being a "TMS purist", or "Sarno purist", seemed to be an ego identification with the good doctor...
Not in my case. I am coming to see my Sarnoistic puritanism as an expression of doubt and fear but I protect myself from these frightening emotions by becoming more hardcore.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 15:25:50
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| Shawn - you have followed all of Dr. Sarno's advice to a tee,except for seeking a tms therapist if the symptoms persist. In past posts, you mentioned that you didn't want therapy, but to follow the good doctor's advice, you would be a candidate (as I was). Speaking with Don Dubin helped rid me of the last symptoms and relapses. We had instant rapport, and he didn't push for more sessions, once the pain was gone. Four sessions on the phone gave me insight into other aspects of life, as well, that have been beneficial. The only downside is the cost, which is better now that our dollars are at par. Phone therapy can't be claimed on insurance, though. Just a thought, as you have obviously worked so hard to be rid of your pain, and know the treatment inside out. I also believe in Sarno's theories 100%, but I do have other beliefs, as well. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 15:27:22
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Shawn,
Did you ever try just feeling those feelings of doubt and fear and seeing what happens after they pass? I've found that this helps me to actually transform the fear and/or doubt into confidence and security.
John |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2007 : 19:25:24
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I had many therapy sessions, including with Don Dubin
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 08:57:52
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Here is what I e-mailed one person who will ne left unnamed:
It appears to me that you are conveying the
message that my Sarno-istic fudamentalistic
thinking is actually a manifestation of fear and
doubt than on of any sincere conviction of the
validity of what Dr Sarno is saying. I have to
keep convincing myself with a lot of reading and a
combative attitude on the TMS board in order to
deal with these fears and doubts. I, in essence,
am not trying to convince others, but I am trying
to convince myself.
Here is the person's response:
Sure, you've morphed into something you don't want to be to cover your
own insecurities. You're not really a closed-minded asshole, you just
play one on the forum. I understand. I think this is common, epecially
among the 1,000 post club. This just means you are still in step one,
becoming convinced of the fact that you have TMS. You can state with
strong conviction that you have it on the forum, etch it in stone on a
hillside, or whatever you like, and you will still have pain unless
you are truly convinced.
Here's how you convince yourself. Do what the doctor says. Go back to
living normally, engaging in everything you would if your back or butt
or whatever hurts, didn't hurt.
Simpler two-step process: 1) write down all the things you would do
tomorrow if you woke up without pain. 2) go do them. No excuses, no
exceptions. Tough love, but I think of it more as recommitment to
living and contributing to the lives of those who love and depnd on
me, the whole me.
While doing them you will probably notice certain muscles tense up in
different areas, and your pain will move from place to place. This is
all to be expected. You must fight the urge by commanding yourself not
to succumb to the urge to stretch, wiggle around, lie down, rest,
slump in a couch or chair, or for God's sake, pull out HBP or other
Sarno screed and start reading or visit the forum. If you like, it
might do you some good to read a success story or two first thing just
to get revved up.
Then do the same thing the next day and the next and the next. You
will find after a couple of weeks of this that your pain is
intermittent and you will have spaces of time that you won't think
about it at all. You'll also likely fall mentally all the way back to
the beginning, thinking about crap like posture or disc degeneration
or any of the million things docs might have told you. That is
normal.Don't make an issue out of it. Just stay focused on doing
things, do more and more and more.
Then you will become interested in life again, resolve underlying
problems by facing them courageously and not letting pain keep you
shrinking away in defeat. Life is waiting, Shawn. It's your move.
END QUOTE
THE PERSON THEN FOLLOWED UP WITH THIS EMAIL:
Oh yeah! One more thing: fellow "purist" Dave, your humble moderator,
has reached exactly the same conclusion evidently. I printed out a few
things from the forum back when I was reading with my accustomed
voracity when I first found the forum. When I first read this thread,
I did so because I had serious problems with Sarno's repeated asserton
that we were reacting to some unknown, hidden emotion that was buried
in the unconscious, out of sight. I thought then and now that this is
bull****, at least in my case. I believe it may be true in people with
severe personality disorders or who are completely out of touch with
their feelings. That's why these stories are in the books. They are
dramatic and gripping, but not indicative of most of our experience.
Here's Dave's quotation:
It's much easier to believe that Dr. Sarno is wrong than to admit that
you are a failure if the treatment doesn't work.
As to the question of why some people don't get better, Dr. Sarno
offers many explanations. But ultimately, the reason is highly
personal, and different for everyone.
I have to agree that parts of Dr. Sarno's writings provide a way too
optimistic point of view. This is understandable, since he is trying
to make a convincing argument, so that the reader has a better chance
of success. I have said before that I do not believe the "majority" of
patients get completely better in a matter of weeks, or if it is in
fact a majority, it is probably 50.0001%.
I personally believe many people have too high expectations when it
comes to "curing" TMS. For me, the "cure" is that I have completely
banished the fear. If I get the occasional twinge in my lower back I
no longer run to the chiropractor or fear that I will have
debilitating back spasms or that there is something wrong with my
spine. If I experience psychogenic symptoms I treat them as a signal
that I am avoiding something that is going on in my life, and I try to
find the emotions that I am "pushing down" into my body. Most
importantly, I just don't let the pain affect my life at all.
Am I "cured?" Not if it mean being 100% free of psychogenic symptoms.
But I look at where I was before discovering Sarno, and where I am
now, and see two different worlds. And I'm much better off now, but
still have work to do. I expect that work to continue for the rest of
my life, and that's a good thing.
Full text here, so you don't think I took it out of context:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3777&SearchTerms=fear
One more thing as a point of clarification: I don't agree that one
should expect to deal with this all one's life. This is Sarno-induced
pigeon-holing, which produces thinking along these lines: "I have
experienced chronic pain. I got better because of reading this
doctor's explanation and treatment program. I still get pain, so I
must therefore continue to implement the doctor's advice. It worked
for me before, so it should continue to do so." Good, sound, logical
thinking.
But here's the problem: it doesn't deal with symptoms that arise
common with anxiety. If there is something new after the pain goes,
fear arises and the person becomes bewildered again, trying to search
out more and more unconscious repression patterns that may not prove
fruitful. I have read literally dozens of stories where pain left,
only to leave horrible anxiety symptoms in its wake.
Better, in my view, to learn to detach emotional reactions to
spontaneous bodily sensations (which includes back pain, heart
palpitations, GI upset etc.). It takes repeated practice, but is so
doable, and quick. It is simple, not easy, but cognitively simple. It
is much easier to say to yourself in the heat of battle, "I won't
react with fear because I know I won't pass out, die, make a fool of
myself or anything else," than to say " gee, there's that damn pain
again, I must be angry at somebody. Let me get someplace quiet so I
can think straight and try to identify this emotion that I am
avoiding. I wonder what it could be." That is too much like work and
can't be done in the heat of the moment.
With fear banishment, call it desensitization if you will, you carry
the cure with you wherever you go. Have a good week. I will be away
from the computer most of the week, as my daughter is at grandma's and
I have a long honey-do list that awaits. I will accomplish it all,
regardless of harmless muscle tension. Go for it!
*******
Sarno-ize it!
Read chapter 4 of Dr. Sarno's "The Divided Mind." Also chapers 3, 4 and 5 in Dr. Scott Brady's "Pain Free For Life" are very important. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2007 : 16:47:35
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| This whole bit about TMS being a life long process etc.... hasn't been my reality with TMS. I don't think it has to be anyone's reality either. The book Power vs. Force provides a good "scale" of human functioning which I believe explains why some get stuck in the war of TMS for so long and others can seemingly move past TMS and never look back. |
Edited by - JohnD on 10/23/2007 16:08:58 |
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"TMS purist" as an identity
