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jmburns
USA
9 Posts |
 Posted - 10/02/2007 : 12:32:35
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Hello all,
I am brand new to this forum, and would like your input because I am at my wits end.
I am fully recovered from TMS and am very greatful for being exposed to Dr. Sarno's information. I went through the gammet of treatments and had the pain/disorder manifest itself in probably 10 different physical ailments ranging from backpain to sciatica, nose bleeds, swollen gums, acne, knee pain, hip flexor issues, rsi, and eczema. Anyway enought about me.
My sister, has many of the same personality traits as me, and is a prime candidate for TMS. She has many different ailments in the past and about 6 months ago a simple anxiety attack was pushed with testing and she was diagnosed with GBS Guillain-Barre Syndrome
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/gbs/gbs.htm
many of the symptoms seem to be very severe aspects of the many things you could see through TMS. Especially if you document when it happens there is no rhyme or reason as to why it happens. The traditional neuro doctors cannot put their fingers on it but claim this and that with this and that test. She has undergone some serious treatments and she claims to be getting worse with CIDP Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/cidp/cidp.htm
To make a short question as long as possible....I have mentioned TMS and Sarno and we have a Dr here both MD and psychotherapist here in Dallas, but she will not hear any of it. She is undergoing some AGRESSIVE neurological disorder treatments that could actually kill her with the toxicity, but she will not even consider this.
Has anyone ever been in this boat, and if you have any suggestion on how to get through to a loved one that is killing herself, I would be forever greatful.
Thanks very much and I will be posting more about my past experience. If ANYONE ever needs support or reassurance that this works please feel free to contact me jm_burns@hotmail.com and I will ahare all of my proof, experienc, and information that can keep you on track.
I look forward to hearing from you,
Justin
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 10:40:03
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Jmburns, this is a huge dilemma, and I strongly identify with you and your predicament. You want to "save" your sister by getting her to try the Sarno method, which is so natural to want to do. In fact, I have lost my wife, by trying to persuade her to see a TMS doctor about her chronic back pain, in the face of her huge resistance to the idea.
Following is a post I made in a similar recent thread, FRUSTRATION:
This is a huge issue for me, as it has cost me my marriage (trying to "save" my wife from her back pain) by trying to persuade her to accept Dr. Sarno's ideas or see a TMS qualified doctor. We had spent two and a half years searching through the conventional medical community to no avail before we discovered Dr. Sarno from two books I'd ordered at random for her (Hueftle and Amir). She said, "It's telling me it's all in my head." I read the books and tried to correct this impression, "The pain is real, etc...", but she wouldn't listen. Our sad story is at: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=766
Since our split (her choice), she got a spinal fusion operation in May, 2006, now has serious pain in her hip instead. We are finally in divorce proceedings. I couldn't stop trying to save her, and this drove her away, probably increased her resistance. Here's a relevant parallel post on the EFT website:
http://www.emofree.com/Articles2/influence-others.htm
which brought home the error of my ways. But it's very hard not to try to save the one you love, when you can see the issue very clearly.
Ralph
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 11:31:53
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Ralph-
I am so sorry you for what you have been through. Your post absolutely jumped out at me because I feel myself in your wife's shoes. I am not sure but suspect something like this has happened to me. When you mentioned spinal fusion and your wife I felt like we could be twins.
I am female and like your wife experienced some childhood events that
must have scarred me. My mother died when I was almost 8.
Its only in the last few years that my life has gone to hell and I cannot get it right. It started with what I perceived to be hormonal
things but soon descended into anxiety and depression. Then the
"tsuanami" of symptoms. Neck pain led to MRI which showed osteophytes, pinched nerves, multi-level degenerative discs. Then back pain, which I'm still trying to figure out. It goes on and on
I have been told by neurosurgeon that I am a candidate cervical spinal fusion. I am living in a bubble of pain and anxiety and am struggling to find a path out.
I am intrigued in that I am grappling with how the findings, as with me and your wife, can be so severe clinically and still be TMS.
I, unlike your wife, actually want to believe it. I am married with a young son and struggle to regain my health and sanity but have failed miserably in every attempt.
I very much appreciate your sharing your story which I just read Ralph. You can appreciate how your wife would discard such a theory if a doctor is willing to do fusion. How in the world do we "know" it is TMS when doctors tell us left and right we are "sick" and need to be fixed surgically or otherwise? Especially spinal fusion!!
I am struggling with how to go forward and whether TMS would do any harm. I cannot find anyone close enough as far as a therapist and wonder whether anyone does this therapy via phone.
Thank you Ralph-for what its worth your post truly touched me.
Lidge |
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jmburns
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 11:41:57
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thanks ralph this was very helpful. i am very sorry to hear about your situation, and i can feel my relationship with my sister slipping into the same type of alienation.
i do not want to lose her, so i think i really need to concentrate on how i handle the situation as opposed to how i can convince her. the best i can do is make her as comfortable as possible during her time of need.
thanks again,
justin |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 19:18:55
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| While I cannot comment on the specifics of your sister's case, I would say that Guillain Barre syndrome and CIDP are immune mediated neuropathies with certain abnormalities that are detected on special testing (EMG/nerve conduction studies). They manifest with weakness, sensory loss, and absent or decreased reflexes, and are most certainly NOT a manifestation of TMS. Getting a second opinion from a different neurologist who is a specialist in neuromuscular disorders may not be a bad idea if there is any concern, but jumping to the TMS conclusion would not be a good idea... |
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jmburns
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 19:33:05
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drz,
thanks for you response. she has gone to several neurologists that have done the exact tests you are referring to and of the 4 one thinks it is gbs and started iv-ig treatment to halt the demyleanation of the nerves. that worked a little bit but it came back, much like the placebo effect of a cortison shot in the lower back works for a while. the second doctor performed the tests and labled it cidp and put her on cellcept. then another dr told her it was not either and it was some form of neuropothy...and so forth.
i have spoken to 2 md's that are also tms knowledgable and although they are speculating and do not know the specifics, they have seen TMS manifest itself in such severe cases that it can fall into that category.
obviously like pain, i am not saying that the condition does not exist, and i am not saying that the symptoms are not real nor is there not damage to the nerves. what i am saying is the underlying cause of the autoimmune syndrome could be caused/halted by following the same regimen as TMS sufferers.
what do you think?
jburns
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 14:35:18
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Lidge,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply to my post. And your story certainly touched me as well. I feel for you. (My mother also died when I was 11. And within a year, my father and sister both got polio.) Julie was also having premenstrual symptoms when her back pain came on. Maybe that's a time (midlife) when part of us wants to become whole by dealing with our childhood wounds, but for another part, it's too scary, thus TMS to distract and aid the repression.quote:
I am intrigued in that I am grappling with how the findings, as with me and your wife, can be so severe clinically and still be TMS.
This seems like a "confidence in the diagnosis" problem. I would recommend watching that 20/20 segment on Dr. Sarno, which more that anything shows that his methods work. Watching that lady go from her "wheelycart" for three years, to pain free in a week and jogging without pain after three months, or the lawyer with 7 herniated discs get free of pain within a month give confidence.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6660313127569317147
Or go to http://Amazon.com and read some of the customer reviews (over 300 on Healing Back Pain) by people healed by reading the books. Or read some of the success stories on this site.
And I would be wary of surgery, at least not before giving the
TMS cure a thorough chance. A recent NYTimes article was titled, "The Spine as Profit Center."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/30/business/30spine.html
And posts like this on pain boards aren't uncommon.
quote:
I am a 53 year old woman
who has chronic bone graft
pain as a result from a
spinal fusion(lumbar) surgery
in 2001. Since then, I have
had chronic bone graft pain
The doctors have been trying
to help me get rid of the
pain but it just won't go
away. I have had a total of
five back surgeries to get
some pain relief in that
region but that has not
happened yet. Any support
that you can give me would
be greatly appreciated.
Thank you. Joan Gentil
It's so sad to see people digging themselves deeper into pain rather than dealing with their emotions.
There is a therapist who works with Dr. Schecter in LA, who does therapy by phone, and by reports here is very good at it. Don Dubin is his name, I believe. Here it is. You can look for doctors at:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/directory.html
Donald Dubin, MS, MFCC
600 S. San Vicente Blvd #D
Los Angeles, CA 90048
(323) 651-4390
So anyway, Lidge, I wish you the very best in your recovery.
Ralph
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 16:18:59
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Ralph-
Thanks a million for the links and advice. I just watched the 20/20 video and see that others have been told ominous things regarding MRIs. I am set for 2 more MRIs and since they are set up I will go-
But the conflict is maddening because I am still "on the fence" but leaning more and more toward TMS.
Its fascinating that Stossel and his brother share this problem-
same parents- hmmm. I wonder how many TMS folk have had early childhood loss etc.
My back pain started in May when the 20/20 piece done- how did I miss
it? Odd coincidence.
As I sit here desperate with burning back and leg pain I am at least
not hopeless. Cannot thank you and the other folks on this thread enough. I'm so weary of being in pain and having my life revolve around it.
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ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2007 : 19:50:02
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Lidge,
Thanks for the feedback. Here's what Dr. Marc Sopher says about MRIs in his book, To Be or Not to Be... Pain Free, which may let you take what they tell you with a grain of salt: quote:
With the availability of CT and now MRI scanners, it is possible to obtain remarkable images of the body. That is the good news. The bad news is that many of these images will be reported as abnormal - one study reported in the New England Journal of Medicine that greater than 60% of spine MRIs showed abnormalities, the same percentage in those without pain as with pain. Virtually every person over 20 who has a spine MRI will be told they have degenerative disc disease, disc herniation, degenerative changes, or some other abnormality. As these findings are present equally, no matter whether symptoms exist, it is Dr. Sarno's and my contention that these are incidental, rarely the cause for pain. Unfortunately, physicians are taught to find a physical cause for physical symptoms and thus tell their patients about their "back problem."
Being told that you have a "problem" or "condition" can aid the "nocebo response." This is the opposite of the placebo response. With a placebo, belief in a worthless remedy can provide relief, almost always temporary, due to the desire to be well and faith in the value of the remedy. With a nocebo, symptoms will persist or intensify as a result of being informed, incorrectly, that a significant defect or problem is to blame. This is a critical part of conditioning - coming to believe that certain actions, circumstances, or aspects of the environment are the cause of symptoms, when in fact the cause lies in the mind. pp. 53-54
Hope this helps, and good luck,
Ralph
ps - glad you liked that 20/20 segment. Unfortunately, most doctors seem to have attitudes like Stossel's brother or that orthopedic surgeon. Also, this 20/20 segment was actually broadcast in 1999. |
Edited by - ralphyde on 10/04/2007 19:56:11 |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2007 : 09:40:32
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While emotional stresses can play a role or be a trigger for various diseases, I would have to say that if she does have CIDP, it is unrelated to TMS. TMS can cause certain abnormalities on EMG testing, for example in carpal tunnel, but this is a far more severe problem, that requires aggressive treatment with medications such as the ones you mentioned.
Dealing with stress is important for everyone, but I would not consider using TMS techniques primarily in someone with this type of neuropathy. |
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Helping Others
