| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
FORU
USA
22 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2007 : 15:54:52
|
My last boyfriend had a 'bad back'. He took a 6 week leave from work to lay in bed and 'recover'. He continued to baby his back for the rest of our relationship. I tried SO many times to get him to read Sarno to no avail. The boyfriend is out of my life. I finally figured out HE was giving ME pains! ;-)
I now have a coworker going through a very bad time. With every aspect of his life including his job. Tata! Perfect timing...now his back is out. He was told he needed surgery for bulging discs. Coincidently, our backs went 'bad' at the same time. At a particularly stressful time at work. Mine is better - his is not. I gave him my old Sarno book and bought a new one for myself. I made him promise to read it before scheduling surgery. He can not get past the preface! As he hobbled into my office today, I had no more sympathy for him after telling him repeatedly to please READ the book. He got angry at my lack of sympathy and indignantly replied " I HAVE BULGING DISCS!! IT IS A MEDICAL PROBLEM!"
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! I am really pissed at his stupidity! But am asking myself, why? What the hell do I care if someone wants to wallow in their pain? Why is it so important to me to enlighten everyone??? I am beginning to think I must have control issues. Ugh!
fka something else |
|
|
la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 16:30:02
|
| Wrong attitude entirely toward someone that isn't open to TMS. We aren't some kind of pain Nazi's. I personally don't think you have the right to be mad at someone for THEIR pain. He was right, you are showing lack of sympathy, and your post is childish. Next. |
 |
|
|
FORU
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 16:43:43
|
[quote]Originally posted by la_kevin
Wrong attitude entirely toward someone that isn't open to TMS. We aren't some kind of pain Nazi's. I personally don't think you have the right to be mad at someone for THEIR pain. He was right, you are showing lack of sympathy, and your post is childish. Next.
But surgery?? Do you meekly stand by and let them cut someone up when most of us know it doesn't help? Honestly! Is it childish that I don't want that to happen? It's possible...I will definitely think about that one!
fka something else |
|
|
|
stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 17:25:17
|
| No, you weren't 'childish' at all. But you definitely have control issues, and you are right for seeing it that way. I know, cause ive been in the same position and i know what that frustration feels like. You did all you could. Beyond that, you can't force people to see things your way, it aint gonna happen be it TMS or anything for that matter. The fact that it made you angry rather than concerned is the clincher. You can't let someone elses poor decision-making enter into your own psyche, cause then it becomes anger that's internal, where you start to see yourself as having "failed" at convincing the other person. Let it go, move on. |
|
|
|
FORU
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 18:08:57
|
[quote]Originally posted by la_kevin
Wrong attitude entirely toward someone that isn't open to TMS. We aren't some kind of pain Nazi's. I personally don't think you have the right to be mad at someone for THEIR pain. He was right, you are showing lack of sympathy, and your post is childish. Next.
Okay, that bit of harsh honesty sank in. How embarrassing! Sorry folks for the horrible and La Kevin is right - 'childish' post. Cringing inside for that one! My initial reaction was not thought out, nor was my post. Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
It did take more searching to resolve the thought that wanting to 'save' someone could somehow be wrong. It isn't wrong, but it also can't be forced. The people that come to my door with Bibles and pamphlets want to 'save' me from something too - whether it be eternal damnation in hell or here on earth. I appreciate their thoughts, but unless I am open to it, it's just not going to happen. Forced enlightenment? Same thing whether its about Sarno or religion or anything else for that matter.
Lesson learned. Thank you La Kevin.
fka something else |
|
|
|
FORU
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 18:31:12
|
[quote]Originally posted by stanfr
No, you weren't 'childish' at all. But you definitely have control issues, and you are right for seeing it that way. I know, cause ive been in the same position and i know what that frustration feels like. You did all you could. Beyond that, you can't force people to see things your way, it aint gonna happen be it TMS or anything for that matter. The fact that it made you angry rather than concerned is the clincher. You can't let someone elses poor decision-making enter into your own psyche, cause then it becomes anger that's internal, where you start to see yourself as having "failed" at convincing the other person. Let it go, move on.
Thank you, Stanfr!! I feel better knowing I am not the only one thats ever felt that way!! I'm wanting to apologize to my coworker and will do so tomorrow, but it IS going to be a feeling of failure if he goes through with the surgery. I have to let it go before that happens. For my sake and for his!
fka something else |
|
|
|
armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 18:48:44
|
It is frustrating to see that someone you care about and hope to help is ignoring what will most probably help them. But, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. As you've realized, people have to save themselves. Not a few of us on this forum have ignored Sarno recommendations to our detriment, and the majority of us have at some point hoped to help someone who was unreceptive. It's not at all pleasant to see someone suffer when you believe you have the key to stopping the suffering. Perhaps one way of looking at it is that by letting them know about Sarno, you give them the key, and you don't have it anymore: they do, and they are choosing not to use it.
If you don't feel you can extensively sympathize with his pain at this point, then one way to be kind yet avoid getting into it is to say "I'm sorry to hear you're still in pain. I hope you feel better soon", and then change the subject. You're not obliged to discuss it with him further. I say this because lots of TMS people are goodists who go with the flow and don't necessarily feel comfortable refusing to discuss a subject. But it's completely reasonable.
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
|
|
|
la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 02:30:38
|
I only said it was "childish" because because angry at someone for not converting to your way of treating pain, while they're in pain, is kinda borderline cruel. And the part where you left your boyfriend because you felt "his pain was giving you pain", but that's another story.
We all make childish posts once in a while, no big deal. And I can't judge on your control issues. But people in pain need friendship and patience, not judgment or frustration at them. I would think someone experienced in pain would know that.
Be more open to someones pain. You don't catch flies with vinegar when it comes to TMS or psychosomatic disorders.
And it isn't wrong to want to "save" someone, but taking it on yourself to the point of being frustrated at them or "being really pissed at his stupidity", is wrong. It's your own issues being projected on him. And he's not "stupid" for beleiving it's his discs. I'm sure we all believed it was our discs at one point, so are we all formerly stupid? Millions of people aren't "stupid", misinformed or ignorant, maybe. But it's no reason to judge them. |
|
|
|
mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 06:24:13
|
| I'm kind of frustrated that an internet "friend" is going through major neck/back pain that sounds totally like TMS (she's been to a bunch of doctors and they just keep prescribing muscle relaxers)but she's still just looking for another muscle relaxer that doesn't make her sick or flair up her IBS. I did pass along a couple of book titles to her. Maybe if the current flexeril makes her sick enough she'll go get one of the books. That's all I can really do. |
|
|
|
JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 06:40:19
|
| It is normal to want to help out a friend, and get frustrated if they don't accept it. Give your self permission to feel that way. You may also want to decide at what point do you stop trying to help someone out by talking about tms and just support their own decision to do what they feel is best for themselves. You don't have to agree with them to be a supportive friend |
|
|
|
mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 06:58:07
|
I feel so sorry for my internet friend. She just had the doctor's receptionist hang up on her because she was yelling, because they wouldn't prescribe another muscle relaxer besides flexeril. I don't want to get yelled at so I'm not bringing up the books again for now.
And she's got that classic trapezius/neck knotted up muscles thing, apparently really really bad. From what I've gathered, it is ALL muscles, no bulging disks or other diagnoses. |
|
|
|
mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 07:03:23
|
| oops, double post. |
Edited by - mamaboulet on 09/20/2007 07:03:53 |
|
|
|
mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 09:12:31
|
FORU: It is natural to want to help someone and we may get angry when they don't see what we can see so clearly. I myself have heard "but my MRI showed. . . " when I talk about my experience with TMS and I can say "yes, mine showed a LARGE herniated disc" to tell them I had something "medically wrong" too. But to no avail. People believe what they want. TMS is not the mainstream right now.
My dad complains constantly about this pain and that, and after buying him the Sarno books, talking about writing, him seeing a TMS doc in NJ, reminding him how I was LAID UP IN BED for weeks with pain that was healed by clearing my mind of things, he still goes to the doc to find something wrong with him. Does it make me angry? Sometimes. But then after the frustration I realize I cannot rescue him (as many of us are rescuers) and he has to see it for himself. Maybe someday he will. Will surgery help him? Don't know, but I am not responsible for him!
And I don't think it was a childish post--you were getting out how you felt. We are all entitled to our feelings.
It doesn't matter what others think of us; what we feel about ourselves matters.
-Lori |
|
|
|
Barb
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 10:26:42
|
I'm just a newbie at this but here goes: Your post wasn't childish, it was honest. You were honest with your feelings which is good for you. It is also good for me to hear honest frustration expressed like that. It lets me know I am not alone in my own frustrations with people (my husband) who I want to "bring into the fold."
It IS frustrating to see someone take a road you feel isn't going to get them where they want to be and you have the answer but they won't listen. But maybe this guy needs to take the long way around. Maybe that's the only way he'll GET it. |
|
|
|
FORU
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 15:57:40
|
[quote]Originally posted by la_kevin
I only said it was "childish" because because angry at someone for not converting to your way of treating pain, while they're in pain, is kinda borderline cruel. And the part where you left your boyfriend because you felt "his pain was giving you pain", but that's another story.
No, I got what you said. You definitely misread or misunderstood the part about the ex, though. I didn't leave him because he had back pain! I left him because he was abusive! I think I said I realized HE was giving ME pain. Meaning emotionally. Admittedly though, his refusal to read Sarno frustrated me the same way the coworkers did. I was just smart enough to keep my mouth shut. Probably bottled it up and took it out on coworker.
fka something else |
|
|
|
Logan
USA
203 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2007 : 09:11:18
|
FORU,
I get what LA Kevin says about anger not being the most mature or productive response. But that said, I think your post was honest, not childish.
How did we all get TMS? By not acknowledging or expressing our immature or irrational emotions, right? I think this forum is a safe place to vent those so that in the real world we can react in more socially acceptable or altruistic ways.
It is frustrating for me that I can't "make" anyone believe in TMS, especially if said person is going under the knife.
I guess for me the thing that makes my frustration about this issue different than my frustration about other issues, is that by at first denying Sarno could help me, then believing he could, then healing myself by doing the work, I have a sense of the other person's experience that I can access when I start to get angry with someone for not seeing how Sarno could help them as well.
When I get into that peaceful, healed feeling, that comes from this big picture understanding of TMS suffering/healing, then I can respond to someone with a sense of empathy and compassion, and I can see that they're on their own path that will, hopefully, lead to their being healed...
But before I get there, yeah, I feel pissed off at them for being so blind to my good advice. : ) |
|
|
|
ralphyde
USA
307 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2007 : 10:26:06
|
This is a huge issue for me, as it has cost me my marriage (trying to "save" my wife from her back pain) by trying to persuade her to accept Dr. Sarno's ideas or see a TMS qualified doctor. We had spent two and a half years searching through the conventional medical community to no avail before we discovered Dr. Sarno from two books I'd ordered at random for her (Hueftle and Amir). She said, "It's telling me it's all in my head." I read the books and tried to correct this impression, "The pain is real, etc...), but she wouldn't listen. Our sad story is at: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=766
Since our split (her choice), she got a spinal fusion operation in May, 2006, now has serious pain in her hip instead. We are finally in divorce proceedings. I couldn't stop trying to save her, and this drove her away, probably increased her resistance. Here's a relevant parallel post on the EFT website:
http://www.emofree.com/Articles2/influence-others.htm
which brought home the error of my ways. But it's very hard not to try to save the one you love, when you can see the issue very clearly.
Ralph
|
|
|
|
clt28209
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2007 : 20:59:36
|
Just a reminder from MBP by Sarno: "Denial of the syndrome is part of the syndrome."(italics mine). If someone is in denial, ONLY something internal can allow the denial to be turned off. Prompting from others, no matter how well-intentioned, will provoke unconscious resistance. And yet it is frustrating when you "get it," and you can't understand why someone else can't "get it." They can't get it until they are convinced of their own strength to overcome their unconscious fear of confronting the unconscious rage. And remember denial is protection from that fear...the fear of being inadequate, a failure, no good, inferior. I couldn't understand this until I began journalling seriously and working with a psychotherapist.quote:
Originally posted by la_kevin
Wrong attitude entirely toward someone that isn't open to TMS. We aren't some kind of pain Nazi's. I personally don't think you have the right to be mad at someone for THEIR pain. He was right, you are showing lack of sympathy, and your post is childish. Next.
|
|
|
|
stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2007 : 04:47:32
|
| clt; could you clarify your response? What do you mean by 'confronting' the unconcious rage? What sort of confrontation? How does fear of failure etc relate to this confrontation? |
Edited by - stanfr on 09/27/2007 04:48:19 |
|
|
|
clt28209
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2007 : 20:30:39
|
I guess what I meant was fear of accepting the fact that one has unconscious rage. I mean, a "good" person doesn't have rage. The lady in the Sarno video said it best, "I had a hard time accepting that I had rage..." Good people aren't SUPPOSED TO HAVE anger or rage, when they do. The person splits into a GOOD me and a BAD me, which denies the actuality of the emotion. To become pain-free and whole (which is really what the TMS process is about, at least in part), one has to accept the rage inside oneself, which is UNconsciously terrifying to the GOOD me. The GOOD me has to "fall apart" a little and allow the rage to be there, because it IS there. The BAD me "angry child" has been holding it. For the "goodist" like me, one has to accept the presence of unconscious rage and grief without indulging the desire to displace it (e.g. road rage, tirades about little things, etc.)
As far as fear of failure, the perfectionist in me knows that if there is still TMS pain, the work is not done. Every time the pain returns ("is triggered"), that means I'm a failure. But the GOOD me is afraid of accepting the rage, thereby perpetuating the pain. So the GOOD me is setting the PERFECT me up for more failure. See the vicious cycle? At least this is my experience.quote:
Originally posted by stanfr
clt; could you clarify your response? What do you mean by 'confronting' the unconcious rage? What sort of confrontation? How does fear of failure etc relate to this confrontation?
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
FRUSTRATION!!
