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Barb
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - 09/17/2007 : 13:04:19
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I am new to this forum and to TMS. My naturopath recommended Healing Back Pain to me about 10 days ago. I have read it twice and read Dr. Sarno's latest book The Divided Mind.
My doctor recommended it to me because I had (it left right after reading Healing Back Pain) an upper back pain that would start when I'd reach a certain level of energy as I slowly recover from chronic fatigue. But as I read the books I see that my chronic fatigue is most likely an equivalent. Does anyone know about this? What I really want to know is do I push myself even when I feel fatigued like a runner with back pain would still run?
Historically, before I knew about TMS, if I pushed myself when fatigued I would "crash" for days if not weeks (meaning I would be very weak and unable to do anything other than sit or be bedridden). This would set me back in my recovery, sometimes for months. I've learned to be scared of pushing myself - thus the fear factor of TMS.
Along with chronic fatigue comes insomnia. I've had my cortisol levels tested and they are almost the opposite of normal. So when a normal person's cortisol level is dropping in the evening so they can relax and fall asleep, mine is rising. Same in the morning, mine is low while a normal person's is high. I have to take two medications to get sleep. My doctor and naturopath both encourage this because sleep is necessary to recover from chronic fatigue. Maybe TMS causes the cortisol levels to do this.
So, I am perplexed as to how to deal with chronic fatigue and insomnia as TMS equivalents. I have plenty more symptoms to go with these: Migraines, tail bone pain, foot pain, face/teeth pain, anxiety, depression and hives. Doctor's have used the word fibromyalgia but I beg them not to write it down in my chart for fear insurance companies will deny me coverage.
I'd appreciate any information anyone can share with me about this.
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csmoon
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 13:39:16
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Have you tried denying the fatigue? It works well for me. I just refuse to let it get to me. It isn't a real muscular fatigue, like you get when you work hard all day. That's a good fatigue. This is an all over fatigue, like you swear you won't be able to stand up if it comes on while you're sitting. It just descends on you like a black blanket. If you lie down it sometimes will get worse. This is the nervous fatigue many anxiety sufferers experience, and if your cortisol levels are that out of whack, you have whipped yourself into a frenzy of worry about symptoms. This seems classic TMS to me. Doctors told me for years that my fatigue was coming from my spinal muscles from sitting slouched all day. I "wasusing the wrong muscles to hold myself up and collpasing my body weight on my frame instead of using postural muscles to hold myself erect."
I've just read Dr. Sarno's books recently, as well, and already see large changes in my ability to function normally. I attended a college football game on Saturday and stood for nearly three straight hours and drove home 1.5 hours afterwards. I was really tired on Sunday after waking, but didn't give in to the urge to lie around. It is just another trick, I have found, so try to stay occupied. I didn't say busy, because that implies frenzy. Just occupy your mind and body with something.
I challenged my fatigue to a duel last week, and fighting the urge to succumb and lie down, I walked five miles instead and felt invigorated afterwards. How could I have done this if the fatigue was muscular? It is all a trick of the nervous system IMHO. There are great stories of success here. But this disorder is sort of like the tooth fairy....belief that the diagnosis you've been given is incorrect, and that the trouble is with your autonomic nervous system, is required if you are to get your reward. Reading alone didn't do it for me. I had to hear from others and see some tangible success in my own experience to spur me onward. I'm about four weeks in and, though not out of pain --my main symptom -- now functioning in nearly all aspects of life and working toward finding courage to try the real daunting tasks I used to find pleasurable.
Welcome, and good luck on your healing journey! |
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Barb
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 13:59:59
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Thanks for the reply. Maybe I am hanging onto a diagnosis that I need to let go of. It is difficult.
My chronic fatigue started almost 3 years ago in December. I had pushed myself too hard for a couple years. My body finally stopped me with bronchitis, viral pneumonia and asthma all at once. It took me weeks before I could get out of bed. Once I got out I pushed myself past the fatigue so I could accomplish things. Inevitably I would crash again. I finally learned not to push myself. It has been very difficult not to push myself. I like to accomplish things everyday. I like to be active. So now I've finally gotten the message not to push myself. By doing so I have reached a level of energy that I can do some things everyday and not just sit.
It's taken me years to learn not to push myself. Now I am faced with the possibility that maybe I should push myself and declare this TMS.
I was diagnosed with exhausted adrenal glands. Again, maybe that's just a TMS equivalent.
Maybe as I progress with my reading, journaling and psychotherapy I will begin to recover from the chronic fatigue without pushing myself.
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csmoon
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:04:01
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| I didn't say push yourself. That implies strain or tension. I just meant spotting the symptom and ignoring it. Challenging its authenticity, not your body's limits. |
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Barb
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:11:44
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| That sounds good, thanks. I will start doing that. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:29:09
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Welcome, Barb! Here's a link to a recent thread about fatigue and symptoms that are labeled Fibromyalgia. Penny discusses her experience with fatigue, which I found encouraging to read. http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3911
If you use the search function to look up past discussions on chronic fatigue and Fibromyalgia, you'll find there are several people who have been dealing with these symptoms. There have been people here who've said they've overcome the fatigue, along with the other symptoms.
I still deal with both the fatigue and insomnia, as well as some other symptoms, though I've also been successful at getting rid of many symptoms that used to be debilitating. I totally relate to the fear of pushing. What I've found is that when I really look closely at my emotions, through journaling, I feel much better the next day and have a lot more energy. I have had to kind of work my way down through layers of emotion, as it was very uncomfortable for me at first to acknowledge some of them, so it's taken me a while. I've also found that reading some of the other books some users here recommend has been useful to me in accessing and acknowledging emotions I'd rather not face. I feel confident that I'll continue to progress and break through the fatigue. I already have times when the insomnia goes away for a few days or even weeks at a time.
Best wishes! |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:40:17
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Another possibility is to start by challenging your other symptoms that are more straightforward to work with as TMS. Over time, you'll get comfortable with how the symptoms work and how you can change your body and mind's reactions to them, and then you can move on to the tougher symptom of fatigue.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Barb
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 14:59:59
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Thanks Littlebird. That was an interesting thread you linked me to. It really sounded like I could have written a lot of it myself!
Thanks armchairlinguist. I wondered about taking that approach. That way I won't be so anxious about the chronic fatigue and maybe make better progress that way.
Yes, csmoon, you are right about me and anxiety. My son, his wife and two kids moved in with us for 18 months, 5 years ago. The stress in our house was palpable. Then when they moved out I was in their lives everyday driving them to work and school . . . I didn't know how to say no. That's why I got so sick and crashed and exhausted my adrenal glands. Of course I still have loads of anxiety to deal with but I have help now that I'm seeing a psychologist. I would love to see a doctor or psychologist that knows about TMS. |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2007 : 19:07:07
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Barb,
You should read 'You Can Heal Your Life' by Louise Hay. This will help change your way of thinking. You need to learn to put your self first - which is a hard habit to break.
Anne |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 11:59:19
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Barb,
This is ALL TMS. I have had all of your symptoms. I have had Chronic Fatigue, terrible sciatica, back pain, headaches, food allergies, IBS, acne, frequent sinus infections, anxiety and depression.
I currently have anxiety and sinus problems. Everything else has gone.
Why do I have this? Because my brain is creating it to distract me from what is really going. What is really going on? I am angry at my mother, father, boss and boyfriend about many many things.
The answer: think psychologically, retrain the brain. I am going back to see one of Dr. Sarno's psychologist to do this.
Barb, all of your symptoms are from your brain. I highly recommend that you see a psychologist, fully trained in TMS. Their type of psychology is Freudian based.
Also, the very big first step is to realize that your fear about all these conditions is feeding into the symptoms. I know - this is a very very different way of looking at things. But I promise you, that all of this is true. Sarno has hit the nail on the head.
Your brain has created these symptoms to distract you from what is really going on. Start thinking psychologically. What is bothering you? What don't you want to think about? Every time you feel tired or pain, laugh at the brain and challenge it....switch to thinking of what is going on in your life. I bet there are lots of things weighing on you. You have a large pool of rage in your unconscious and it is threatening to break loose.
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Barb
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2007 : 14:11:26
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Scottydog: I have heard of Louise Hay before. I think my physical therapist recommended her book to me. I will get it and read it. Thanks.
Suz: I want to find a TMS physcian and/or psychotherapist. Any suggestions on locating them? I've done an Internet search. I found some that are 4 hours from me: Jonna Lee Barta, PhD ( I assume a psychotherapist) and John Sklar Md (Physical Medicine/ rehabilitation and pain Medicine). Oh, and one that is only about an hour away MaryAnn Schaffer, PhD.
It is scary thinking about changing psychotherapists. I have been seeing the same one for a couple years now.
You're right. My fear is feeding into the symptoms. I am struggling with seeing chronic fatigue as TMS. I really need to see a TMS specialist!!
Thanks for your input.
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judyhorowitz
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 05:07:41
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You sound like me. How do I get to Kevin's site for the free Dr. Sarno tapes? What is the name of Dr. Brady's book? On top of the fibro that I've had for years, I have chronic lyme (TMS?) As I sitting here at 5 AM, I have terrible pain in my face. I keep talking to my brain, but I still have it, day after day. Awful. I keep moving and trying to ignore it. Not easy.
judyhorowitz
judyhorowitz |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 05:57:06
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Exhausted adrenal glands is the new epidemic. Stress, stress, and more stress in our modern lives. Now add in the pain-prone TMS personality and I'd be willing to bet that our group has an even higher rate of adrenal exhaustion than the regular population. Our endocrine systems are helpless passengers in Mr Toad's Wild TMS Ride. The adrenal glands are getting the crap beat out of them. Aside from the symptoms of fatigue and such, an out of control cortisol cycle is a dead giveaway.
It was a friend's suggestion that my adrenal glands might be lying battered and beaten in a ditch that first started me looking for a way out of the hole of tiredness and random pain. Before I showed up here on a quest for the cause of all this, I started with a simple change of diet and supplements to give my adrenals a fighting chance. Power food (lots of dark green leafy veggies, fruit, whole grains) and targeted supplements (ginseng and DGL). While the pain of TMS is benign, if miserable, a tattered endocrine system, just like a tattered immune system, really puts your body at risk for serious illness. Our cranked up autonomic systems are putting a huge load on important support systems in our bodies. Since this whole thing is about MINDBODY, it is important to be good to your body as well as facing your subconscious. |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 05:59:02
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quote:
Originally posted by judyhorowitz
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You sound like me. How do I get to Kevin's site for the free Dr. Sarno tapes? What is the name of Dr. Brady's book? On top of the fibro that I've had for years, I have chronic lyme (TMS?) As I sitting here at 5 AM, I have terrible pain in my face. I keep talking to my brain, but I still have it, day after day. Awful. I keep moving and trying to ignore it. Not easy.
judyhorowitz
judyhorowitz
Dr Brady's book is called Pain Free for Life. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 21:15:12
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Judy, here's a link to Kelvin's site. http://www.etex.net/kelving
It doesn't have free Sarno videos, but has a link to a 20/20 episode that featured Sarno, as well as a link to a video seminar by Dr. Brady. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2007 : 22:27:27
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Barb,
Don Dubin in Beverly Hills does phone TMS therapy sessions and is very good!
Feel better,
Karen |
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Barb
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2007 : 08:04:49
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| Thank you, I will look into that. |
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cfhunter
119 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 14:32:40
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Have you tried 5HTP?
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qso
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2008 : 23:51:09
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Remember that a critical component of Sarno's work is that you must stop all physical treatments including any thoughts that your problem is physical. Remember also that your brain is wired up to every part of your body and controls your chemistry right down to the last molecule. It can change its master program to effect real physical changes in your chemistry, thus making it indistinguishable from other physical causes. Your brain wants you to know that it is doing this to you. It wants you to acknowledge in absolute terms that nothing but it, your subconscious, is responsible for your pain and misery. No amount of talking to your brain will have any effect until you truly reject every other possibility. But once that happens you will be free. It is possible for the conscious part of your brian to think it has come to this acceptance and conviction but the subconscious may still have some doubt. That doubt is the only thing that will hold you back and is what you have to work on and it is not easy. I would suggest saying the following to yourself (or some personalized version of it)..even if you don't believe all of it now, one day you will and as soon as that happens recovery will follow quickly.
Since the subconscious understands emotions better than words I would suggest saying them whilst visualizing an angry/stern face and/or invoking the appropriate feelings in yourself:
[The 'You' refers to your subconscious]:
I know you are doing this to me.
But your game is up. You will not fool me.
You and only you are responsible for my pain.
I will not be tricked.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with my body.
My body is still strong and fully functional and these symptoms
are being caused only by you.
There is no point in continuing with causing these or any other symptoms
because I know what you are doing and I have caught you out.
I know you are upset, but I acknowledge you are communicating with me
and I am listening.
Sounds silly, but that's why it's hard. Remember also that the subconscious does not know past or future - it only knows now. That means that your subconscious harbors the 'you' of all ages since birth..it is all the little children that are trapped inside your subsconscious without your awareness, unable to speak if one of them is angry..but they are already wired up to your body so they will manipulate it to cause you pain to let you know they are angry or upset.
QSO
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Chronic Fatigue/insomnia
