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Amy
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2007 : 01:11:07
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I read Dr. Sarno;s book at the urging of my orthapedist. I definitely see some of myself in the book and have many of the conditions
---Fibromyalgia
cervical compressio - had two level surgery 6 years ago
currenly tightness and pain shoulders and traps
low back pain no disc L-5 S1
plantar fasciitis moderate
carpal tunnel dotor who reccomned Sarnos book and was treated by him said that he has started rethinking the way he practices. When I asked about carpal tunnel, the orthapedist said that Sarno feels that carpal tunnel is all part of the syndrome. My orthapedist said hat after years of working with patents and sing the vast majority get significant to complete PERMANENT relief, he feels that carpal tunel is due to a strutural issue
I did speak with dr gwodz in NJ. The first session was dianostic and lasted about an hour. Luckily that is paid by insurance. He has a two hour leture for two hundred dollars. He said that he tells everyone that if after the lecture, thy feel that it was a waste of time, he will refund the 200.
I am so confused now, Has anyone been in my shoes and could you offer a pearl of widom??
Has anyone heard of Dr Gwodz or any other MJ doctor that os aware of this condition
 
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 04:31:27
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An M.D. that urged you to read the book. And you see yourself in the pages. I think that says it all. The M.D. would've found anything serious.
B4 spending the 200, you could look at the TMS links here and educate yourself. For 30-40 bucks and the library you could have a complete understanding in no time. |
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Amy
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 06:25:54
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Thanks for your response
carpal tunnel dx - The dotor who reccomned Sarnos book and was treated by him said that he has started rethinking the way he practices. When I asked about carpal tunnel, the orthapedist said that Sarno feels that carpal tunnel is all part of the syndrome. My orthapedist said hat after years of working with patents and seeing the vast majority get significant to complete PERMANENT relief with the carpal tunnel release, he feels that carpal tunel is due to a strutural issue. and that surgery makes sense. I am no sure wheter to have the surgery or wait awhile. Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated.
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Webdan65
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 06:46:39
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Amy:
Surgery costs $$, recovery time and creates further emphasis on the body as a machine that is broken and needs hammers and screwdrivers to "fix it".
The Sarno methodology requires a little time, education and inner reflection. Very little money, no cutting of the flesh. My take is that you treat your symptoms as TMS. Consider attending Dr. Gwodz's lecture. After all, he does have a money back guarantee.
If you are unsure where to go with this....read and re-read Sarno's book/books. Then it's time to do the TMS work. You need to take control of your thoughts and:
* Refute the physical. - Tell yourself there's nothing broken physically.
* Think psychological - meaning this...what is going on in your life that is stressfull, irritating, causing stress or pressure.
Analyze your personality.
* Are you a goodist - meaning you want to do more for others at your own sacrifice?
* Are you a perfectionist? Many of us don't recognize ourselves as that so here's a couple hints. Do you always feel like you haven't done enough for yourself, your family, your career, your chores, etc.
* Part of this psychological thinking that has worked for many of us here is deep journaling. Write down things that anger you, frustrate you, daily pressures, selfish thoughts, stresses. Do this for your childhood, present and future concerns/worries.
While it sounds a bit "out there" - the methods Dr. Sarno teaches will allow you to cure yourself of the pain. It's worked for countless of us in this forum and thousands of other patients.
It's no coincidence that many mainstream doctors will diagnose you with a malady that they subsequently have a procedure to supposedly cure you with. (surgery, manipulation, chiropractic care, massage, pills, steroidal injections)
The point Sarno makes is that everyone has these emotionally induced symptoms. Some get back pain, others tendon pain, others headaches, irritable bowel syndrome, the list goes on and on.
Don't fall into the trap of feeling like emotionally induced pain syndromes make you "crazy" or weak. Everyone has these issues - really everyone. 90% of the population will experience back pain at some point in their lives.
You are quite normal and have the keys right here in this forum and in the Sarno book to cure yourself. Attend the seminar if you want the confidence in the diagnosis and treatment process from Dr. Gwodz.
Go for it....
Dan |
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Amy
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 07:15:07
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Thanks for your response. I guess the fact that the orthopedic doctor who told me about Dr. Sarno still reccomended the surgery kind of "muddies the decision making water." Today I am going to start a journal and see where it takes me.
I guess I am still unclear on how you can determine what pains may be related to TMS and what pains really are indicitive of a problem that will need other interventions. I am thinking of my bone on bone knee that constantly subluxes and sometimes catches, locks and dislocates.
I guess that I am at the beginning of a new trail. I know that over the past four or five years, I have been thinking that my heart and major systems are healthy but my orthopedic body is FALLING APART. I suspect that many people on this site can identify with that feeling. I kind of knew that there has to be more to it than just bad luck and being cursed by a body that keeps thumbing it's nose at me.
Thanks again for your posts |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 08:45:40
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The orthopedic doctor is still an orthopedist, even if he is in the vast minority of those who know about Dr. Sarno, and even smaller minority of those who agree with him in any way. Ultimately his training and instincts are going to conflict with the TMS theory.
BTW, if you amputate your forearm, I guarantee 100% permanent relief from carpal tunnel. Does that prove that carpal tunnel is a real structural problem? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 12:39:22
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Wait a while before you get the surgery. Surgery has risks, recovery time, and (in the case of carpal tunnel) a significant chance of incomplete success or even worse pain and weakness. We are supposed to have a carpal tunnel! It is not a structural problem to have one. :-)
You can always get the surgery later, but you can't un-get it. Try the TMS work first. If you have so many other TMS conditions, chances are the "CTS" is one too.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 08/15/2007 12:39:54 |
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Amy
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 17:45:09
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| Today, I saw my primary doctor for a routine check up. I told him what the orthapedist said about surgery and also my concerns about going ahead with the surgery. My primary agreed with me that surgery may be premature. I spoke with a PT that I know. She was able to interpret the numbers from the EMG and felt that the numbers indicated that I have mild to moderate carpal tunnel. She suggested that I go for a second opinion before considering surgery. I have an appointment with a hand specialist on Friday. At this point, I am 90% sure that I will not go ahead with the surgery for the time being. |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2007 : 18:45:27
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| I cured my "CTS" 10 years ago when i also got rid of sciatica. At the time, the drs. tetsed me with those nerve conduction tests (positive results) and i was told if i didnt get 4 seperate surgeries (ulnar and carpal nerve entrapment) i would end up with permanent nerve damage and claw hands. Right. Carpal Tunnel probably is a structural 'weakenss', (which the mind may or may not have played a role in creating!) but it definitely is targeted by the psyche, just as my spinal discs and nasal septum were. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 09:25:51
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A PT interpreting an EMG? Wow, that's one I haven't heard before.
Seems that you are seeking confirmation of a structural problem, yet if you trust the TMS diagnosis you need to at least consider the possibility that your symptoms are psychogenic.
It's the same old problem of what is pathological vs. what is normal. People who type for a living are likely to have thickening of the wall surrounding the nerves that run to the hand, just like construction workers who lift heavy objects every day are likely to have increased muscle mass in their arms and upper bodies.
The leap is for medical doctors to say that this thickening somehow compresses the nerves and leads to pain. How do they know that?
It's the same exact issue with herniated discs. How do they know that impinging a nerve is causing the pain?
The more you think about possible structural causes for pain, the more the brain will sieze the opportunity to give you the exact symptoms to support that belief. |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 10:37:22
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While abnormalities consistent with carpal tunnel syndrome are usually seen on EMG, in my mind that does not mean that those abnormalities are not caused by TMS. CTS surgery is successful in about 70-80% of people, however, that means about 20% who don't get better, and about 7-10% of people who get worse. Also, like most TMS symptoms, even if surgery is successful, the symptoms will usually just move somewhere else, resulting in little overall gain.
I guarantee that a second opinion from a hand surgeon will be for you to have surgery--that's what surgeons do! CTS isn't going to kill you. If you're interested, why don't you learn more about TMS and put off surgery for 3-6 months. You can always do it later if you decide to, so there is really nothing to lose by waiting. IF the symptoms are really bothersome, you can use the wrist splints or get a nerve block for some immediate short term relief while you are doing this. Remember, surgery cannot be undone.
Disclaimer: You should always consult with your physician before making any medical decisions. |
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justme
63 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 10:45:45
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Speaking of carpal tunnel:
I had outer forearm and wrist pain several years ago (post my having my fourth and fifth children (twins)). I had numbness at night in my pinky and half of my ring finger. Orthopedist's tests revealed NO impingement in ulnar area (related to pinky and half of ring finger), but did reveal impingement in carpal area, exactly the opposite of what I would expect. I had NO carpal symptoms at all. I used Sarno's books to cure the daily pain. I still have numbness in ulnar area at night sometimes. But, it has NEVER caused a clawed hand or problems during the day. I really feel it is a leftover part of my TMS that is related to unresolved emotional issues surrounding my dad's death when I was 8 years old. The reason it only shows up at night is because it comes out of my deep unconscious. Ironically my dad was electrocuted - 4000 volts of electricity either entered or exited his pinky finger. That was the story I heard my mother tell for years. Go figure. The numbness frequently affects me at night when I cross my hands over my head, a pose my dad would often assume while he was relaxing.Our bodies have ways of speaking to us, I believe.
Do not be scared by the doctors who are threatening clawed hand. They are using fear to induce you, and believe me fear contributes significantly to TMS symptoms.
Just ME |
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Amy
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 12:03:55
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I have decided NOT to do the surgery for the time being. Sleeping with a wrist splint does make a huge difference. When I sleep with the splint, I do NOT wake up with pins and needles in my hand. During the day, I have some mild discomfort but my hand is fully functional. I am able to keyboard, carry things, cook, open things etc etc etc. If my wrist starts to bother me enough during the day, I just put the wrist brace on. Frankly, I seldom have to resort to that.
It makes a lot of sense that the mind plays a huge part in the generation of pain but it is diffcult to rethink what years and years of doctors etc have said. I am working on it though!
One example of an "abnormal" xray being blamed eroneously for pain comes to mind. Two years ago, when my son was 16, he had horrible back pain. We went to an ortho who xrayed my son and pointed to a bulging disc as the source of his pain. I spoke with the pediatrician who gave me the name of a pediatric spine specialist. We went to the second doctor. This doctor said that the disc is definitely bulging, but that in about 60% of the population you would see similar findings. He asked my son to point to the painful area. The surgeon then said that the area that is painful is nowhere near the area of the bulging disc. My son went through four weeks of PT and felt dramatically better.
I try to keep reminding myself about this personal example of "abnormal" findings not necessarily causing the pain. |
Edited by - Amy on 08/16/2007 12:05:42 |
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 12:55:24
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One can ask themselves how it is that a TMS-induced syndrome can also be relieved with surgery, like carpal tunnel.
Are these incompatible observations?
Here's something to think about: what if carpal tunnel is a real physical thing produced by excessive use, but for many/most people it is not painful. Only in people with TMS-induced vasoconstriction (or whatever) does it actually cause pain (the double insult of TMS and narrowed wrist canal).
If you are cured of TMS, you still have the restrictyed canal but but the oxygen supply from your now healthy circulation makes this a non-issue.
Or, you have surgery and they make anough room so its wide enough to work despite TMS-induced blood flow restruction. So it relieves your pain but you get it elsewhere eventually.
Maybe this can also explain why laminectomies of teh spine (not discectomies, mind you, but space-producing laminectomies) for stenosis (a kind of spinal "carpal tunnel) are very effective, yet apparently treating TMS is also effective.
Just something to consider. |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 18:00:38
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I believe it is a real physical thing, just as my deviated septum was real. Its a weakness targeted by the brain (the brain may have had some role in the original development of the weakness--that i don't know). I don't bel;iev overuse is a major factor.
Interestingly, when i had my CTS i initially had trouble curing it, until i realized it was distracting me from remembering my dreams (i had numbness at night) When i made a conscious effort to remember my dreams/ignore the numbness, it went away. |
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Amy
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 18:13:17
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| It sounds strange, but I feel relieved that I called today to cancel the surgery. |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2007 : 18:27:23
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| Bravo! Wise choice. |
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