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jack
27 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2004 : 13:16:21
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Hi Everyone. I have written a few times in the past month regarding my groin and pelvic pain. I told you all that I am a runner and we discussed back and forth how runners have Type A personalities, we are focused on the body, the running magazines tout cures for "injuries", etc. etc.
It has been about 4 weeks since I developed the groin pain. I took 1 week off of running and took the strongest anti-inflammatory out there. The pain is still here. I went back to running and it hurts so much to run and now to walk. This has caused so many doubts now that maybe I have to see a doctor and get a bone scan to see if it is a stress fracture, to stop running as I might be causing more harm.
I have been trying to focus on what's going on with me. Unfortunately the doubts and the fear seem to overcome the rationality. The fears of more time off of running, trying to find a treatment.
Does this ring a bell or feel similar to what anyone else has gone through. I remember there are runners who read this forum.
Thanks.
Jack. |
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plainchant
41 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 13:43:30
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Hi Jack. I'm not a runner, but I know about the doubt and fear that comes from TMS all too well. First of all, Sarno 101: anti-inflammatories do nothing. As Dr. Sarno says, there is no inflammation. Late last year, a cardiologist gave me vioxx (!) after my chest pain was ruled not to be heart related. First I took the standard dose. Then I doubled it. Whatever little relief came from placebo effect no doubt.
If you have health insurance, or can afford it, you should get a full medical just to make sure there isn't anything seriously wrong with you. But just remember to use Sarno guidelines when interpreting what the doctor tells you. For example, all my heart tests, bone scans, and nerve tests showed that nothing was wrong, but the othopedic doctor said that my chest pain resulted from the two herniated disks in my neck and one in my back that showed up on an MRI. Of course, that is rediculous.
I would suggest that you get a notebook and start writing writing writing. Write about everything that makes angry, causes you stress, guilt or shame. Write and write and write. I just got this program yesterday to deal with a recent TMS flare up:
http://www.bradyinstitute.com/product.htm
I haven't gone through it completely yet, but it seems to give good guidelines on what to journal. And also it seems to include a spiritual dimension that no other TMS practitioner mentions (which appeals to me).
The fact that you're using anti-inflammatories, makes me wonder if you read "Healing Back Pain" and "The Mindbody Prescription". If you haven't: you absolutely must.
Good luck. |
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jack
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 13:55:39
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Thanks Plainchant.
One thing I forgot to write is that I am resisting going to doctors and going to a PT. I have been down this route a ton of times before. But.... the thought is still with me, that maybe there is a treatment for me. I guess what I don't want to do is stop running. Texas Runner - what do you recommend. I know you run marathons. If I stop running and rest - maybe the pain will go away. If i stop running and rest and the pain doesn't go away ....... See my dilemma?
Thanks all. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 15:26:18
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Well,I'm a runner and a thrower (Baseball)
One brief episode I recall I had developed pain in my shoulder,but it wasn't debilitating. I was playing,as well as coaching a team of kids..I could throw 400-500 BP pitches with virtually no problems.All of a sudden,I felt a click and a stabbing pain each time I threw.
I went to the Dr. who gave me a cortisone shot and told me to not throw for a week.I followed his advice,and the very next time I threw had even worse pain.....that's when I was certain it was TMS....
I realized from introspection,and hittin' the journal/diary that I resented the time I had to spend coaching little league when I could have been playing myself.(a totally unacceptable idea to the conscious mind)
I turned my thoughts to this while I was throwing BP and the pain left that day.
The mythology of arm damage in Baseball is extensive and overwhelming...just crack any sports page,and it's like a TMS convention.One of the BIGGEST myths is about throwing curveballs.They actually take less effort than a fastball.I throw 50-70 of them in any batting practice.never a twinge.
Sports in particular is virtually run on the medieval concepts of structural damage.I don't see why runners would be exempt...it's in football,basketball(shaq's TOE...LOL!!)baseball....watch..it'll show up in NASCAR soon....you know..all that sitting...it's really BAD(LOL!!)
Go look at an old baseball card....The only thing that EVER cut a guys season short was a broken bone or some other kind of REAL trauma.
Players never missed more than 4 or 5 games a year to injury....nowadays a guy who misses 30 is considered relatively sturdy! AHHHHhhhhhh the good ol' MRI machine!
Anyways...I rested and it got worse...maybe try a little rest.It might be worth a week off if it helps you figure it out.It was the rest that convinced me.
Get well brother
Marc
Baseball65 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 17:40:45
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Jack,
You may want to look into Monte's book. He is a marathon runner who has beaten pain using Sarno's methods. There's a link to his book on the Forum's homepage. I think he has a website too. Good luck. tt |
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Kavita
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 08:46:37
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Jack,
I am not a runner, but I am am active person and I think are experiences are similar. I, too am struggling with doubts and fears, and am trying to find the courage to ABANDON PT once and for all. And yes, the thought is with me that maybe, someone out there, will have the magic bullet.
I cannot emphasize enough that that EXERCISE DOES NOT INCREASE MY PAIN, makes life worth living again, AND makes me feel human again! Only you know what is best for your body, but I strongly encourage you to KEEP RUNNING!
I HAVE HAD NO RELIEF FROM ANTI-INFLAMMATORIES such as naproxen, Vioxx, and Bextra, so I gave up on those long ago.
My experience with PT left me has left me very sceptical. They find reasons for your injuries, but I think these are just theories that they are convinced apply. When they can't fix it, they throw their hands up in the air, and refer me to someone else. They also prescribe various exercise that, in my opinion, is utterly ineffective.
Perhaps together we can muster up the strength to abandon our hopes for PT, but our faith in our bodies, and resume life as if we had no pain. I believe that you, and you alone, have the power to beat this!
Kavita |
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 09:30:37
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Jack- You asked for my advice, so here goes. I had butt/hamstring pain for eight years. Last year, I stopped running for six weeks to see if that made a difference. It did not. So that convinced me it was TMS. HOWEVER, here's where I part ways with some in the TMS community. I have noticed that virtually ALL runners who train any significant amount have injuries. When they refuse to go away, that is when TMS is at work. BUT, it may take more than TMS thinking to cure you. Why? Because if TMS is depriving the site of oxyegen, and the muscles involved really do spasm or tighten, then there is a secondary physical process going on. I was not able to finally run pain-free until I began rolling the affected area using a kid's soccer ball against my sitting weight. After about a week of that, the pain was gone. This is after eight years mind you, four of which have been spent working with TMS theory. So I believe that people who run 40-50 miles a week or more have slightly different concerns than people that do not exercise. In my case, I believe that my TMS thinking put me in a place where I could get rid of the residual pain by using the soccer ball. The ball helps to lengthen the hamstring, and also helps blood supply to the bone/tendon junction. I look at this process as a kind of "jump start" to TMS. For me, once the pain goes away, it's much easier to keep it away "mentally" than it is to get rid of it. I'm sure there are many here who will disagree with me, pointing out that it is counter-TMS to apply any physical therapy, but hey, my pain is gone, AFTER EIGHT YEARS, so why do I have to convince anyone else?
PS: I have had brief episodes of groin pain in the past, but was always able to get past them by strengthening that area-- again a "jump start." |
Edited by - Texasrunner on 11/17/2004 09:33:32 |
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jack
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 09:56:47
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Texas Runner- I am glad you responded. I know it is anti-TMS to say that runners get hurt. It will be difficult to convince me otherwise. World class runners even get hurt. I don't think any runners are immune.
What I do think happens is that some runners (myself included) get some aches and pains and they turn into chronic "injuries" because of their insecurities. As I have written in previous messages - I struggle with figuring out if I should or should not stop running. That is where my obsession lies.
I took off Monday, Tuesday and today from running. I am going to try tomorrow and see what happens and try to ignore it all.
I had a therapy (psychologist) session yesterday. She tells me that if I could get in touch with my feelings I would know the right thing to do. It would be great not to have to perseverate about everything. That would be a new experience!!!!!
Jack |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 10:07:32
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"And yes, the thought is with me that maybe, someone out there, will have the magic bullet." quote from Kavita.
Dear Kavita,
Yes, someone out there has a magic bullet, in fact a gun-belt full of them. If there ever was a Lone Ranger amongst dox, it certainly is Dr. Sarno. I understand that he is isolated from his fellow dox at Rusk, definitely on the fringe. But, so was Jesus, who was also a great healer. I'm not going off on a religious thread here, but it seems to me to be an apt analogy.
Maybe, Sarno should get himself a TV tabernacle show, a choir, laying on hands, assistants to catch the "healed". He would have great renown-and please pass the hat.
I have tried all the PT and it did feel good, even the 90+ Rolfing sessions I did. They took me out of my normal stress-filled day, with the pressures of doing business in a wacko, anti-business climate and a relationship that should have terminated a decade earlier. I found the solace of the massage table very soothing. And quickly fleeting as soon as I left the parking lot. Like a vacation, within 48 hours, the rest and rejuvenantion evaporate, upon returning to the good old routine.
To exercise or not to exercise? I personally feel if I had stopped what I was doing for a month, my hip pain would have resolved itself many years ago, as I did with any other injury I had sustained over the years. But, at the time I needed to exercise to escape the above mentioned pressures, primarily the bad relationship break-up. So I played through it. You can learn alot from pain, you can also re-invent the wheel-I wonder if ox-carts are allowed in the diamond lane?
In MBP, Sarno, says return to exercise as soon as possible but he mentions taking some time off at the accute stage also. I just read some advice to that effect in Monte's book also. Gary used to mention, that if you hit yourself with a hammer 58 times, you will do some real damage, and the best thing to do is stop hitting yourself with the hammer.
I think pushing through a real injury is the other side of the TMS coin. It's the OCD aspect of TMS. I think there can be such a thing as a real injury that for TMS/psych reasons we don't allow to heal. It then becomes a chronic TMS site. This may be, beacuse, we need it as a crutch, to ward off dealing with the even worse emotional pains.
Because there are so few Sarno doctors, we're pretty much on our own here, to self-diagnose, and determine whether to run or play through our injuries. It sure would of helped me to have a white-coat order me to stop "doing" for a month, IMHO.
Good luck,
tt |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 10:08:05
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Jack,
Do the Brady tapes come on DVD? Have you had success using them? I like the spiritual componenet as well so this could be interesting for me. I think it is so affective to hear the cure - for some reason that goes into my unconscious more than reading. I went to the panel discussion at Sarno's in the city and my pain lessened substantially for a week or so just from seeing and listening to people who have successfully recovered. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 10:09:37
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| woops - I meant to direct my question at Plainchant. Sorry! |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 11:19:51
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Fellow marathon runner here . . .
I ran 5.65 miles on Saturday, the longest since March. I started with some pain, but kept going, and simply refused to acknowledge the pain. Obviously it got better, otherwise I wouldn't have run so long.
I ran again on Monday and Tuesday. Tuesday was definitely pain-filled, but my husband and I went to a group therapy meeting on Monday night and I think I was having dreams/nightmares that were not exactly pleasant. I was fine the rest of the day.
Get the tests you need to confirm that NOTHING IS WRONG. MRI, bone scan, whatever. Your doctor will tell you something about it being a "soft tissue injury" or "degenerative changes" but if they don't say anything about a true structural problem, i.e. tumor, fracture, then there is NOTHING WRONG. Maybe that will finally tell your mind that it is TMS because you've had all the tests and there's nothing there.
Whatever you do, don't give up on the TMS - it does work. |
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jack
27 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 11:31:24
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Michele-
As you can see from the other posts - there is definitely some disagreement here!!! I definitely agree with Tennis Tom that there is an OCD component to all this, especially runners. It is a VICIOUS cycle - if I stop running and rest and weeks go by and the pain doesn't get better - then you know definitively that it is TMS????? and you lost a few weeks of training. If i continue to run with the pain, then i tell myself that maybe i need to rest and running is preventing the pain from getting better.
see the cyclical thinking. that's where i'm at and it is so tough to make a decision as to what to do.
my ortho said i had groin strains. that is definitely soft tissue, NSAIDS did not work. i am holding back on PT because i don't think that is very effective.
i am going to try to run tomorrow. i ran sat and sundy but took mon, tues, wed. off.
as i posted before - it is a tough decision to make.
thanks all. |
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Still Struggling
