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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
 Posted - 07/23/2007 : 03:35:52
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| I had a major setback yesterday, after it seemed i was making steady progress. I believe it was triggered by my discovery of a friend's webpage in which he defends creationism and conservative Christian philosophy. This sent my brain into angry overdrive, since ive been in "spiritual crisis mode" since my mom died (shortly before 9/11). It seems like a no-win situation for me: either i renounce everything i was taught as a child (raised Catholic), which i feel guilty about (and am not very enthusiastic about any alternatives), or go against my intellect and pretend i believe it all. I find it hard to reconcile the idea of a "personal loving God" with the fact that i was 'thrown to the wolves' as a child, and now have to deal with TMS torture thanks to my repressive personality. I know this is a personal matter and i have to 'find my own way', but if anyone has been down this road, perhaps they could offer me some suggestions. |
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gezondheid
50 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2007 : 06:38:34
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in my belief to get a broad spiritual overview i would recommend the conversation with god books and a course in miracles.
In my opinion in doesn't conflict with Sarno, sopher etc and it shines a fresh light on our perception of religion.
I think the Sarno/Brady etc books have a strong spiritual inclination without being actually so. If you can connect the the healing books and the books i mentioned it makes your healingtoolkit better. Don't fall into the trap of comparing. Look for the bridging and you will be amazed.
move-on |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2007 : 08:42:07
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You might find John Bradshaw's books helpful. He is somewhat traditionally spiritual, but has a lot of room for personal interpretation. His books aren't TMS but about the emotional experiences that get us into TMS and other issues.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Sky
USA
96 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2007 : 13:14:36
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Stanfr,
a once very-serious Catholic myself, I came to eventually let go of all the parts of Catholicism that didn't hold up to my own questioning.
There was a time when I read the Bible every night because I wanted to be a good person and go to heaven. But when the religious framework stopped to make total sense to me, I let go of those parts and moved forward with my own judgment and feelings that, I felt, made more sense and felt truer to me. That certainly doesn't mean letting go of ALL that Catholocism teaches. I've come to think that every religion has a world of healthy truth in it, and you don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water in asking yourself and answering what feels truest to you.
Perhaps you found this interesting or helpful |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2007 : 14:18:09
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I am a huge fan of Sarno and a very devout Catholic - a convert of 3 years. I can tell you that it definitely adds to the Goodist stressor the fact that I watch my moral behaviour daily and go to Confession to help me become a better Christian and get closer to Christ.
The way that I understand suffering and the fact that my parents did not do a great job in many ways parenting me - is that my Faith teaches me that we are all infected in original sin - that is what we have to deal with on this earth. it makes people mistreat other people. My faith teaches me that we have Free will - why - because God did not want us to be robots but to choose to love him. In order to love, we have to have Free will. but we have free will infected with Original sin - makes awful things happen.
Also - we are not meant to be constantly happy down here - remember that Christ came here to show us how to live and he suffered greatly - left by friends, abandoned by his disciples and eventually crucified. We are going to suffer here. The beauty is that you can offer your suffering up to help others. Part of living down on this fallen Earth is that we have Crosses to bear - It makes you more like Christ. In fact, you are closest to him when you suffer. Heaven is where there will be complete and ultimate peace.
This does not conflict with my TMS work. I will be working with a psychologist again and know that I need to go through the anger towards my parents and then will finally get to the forgiveness part - but only after I have experienced the anger.
I hope this helps - it is hard to say it all in a nutshell. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2007 : 16:02:34
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Oops - I realize that I might be echoing your friend's article that made you furious. I am sorry about that. I happen to agree with everything in my Faith and I actually believe that many people dislike the Catholic Faith or parts of it because of misunderstanding it. I was one of them. Then I started to read and studied for about 9 months ....might as well know exactly what I was rejecting. I am not sure that people bother to do this - just throw out statements like - I hate that women can't be Priests - but don't find out exactly why they can't in the Faith - in actual fact, most people have no idea how to answer this question - just think that the Faith hates women. That is completely ridiculous....especially since we actually pray a Rosary to a woman - Mary!!!!!!
Anyway, I obviously don't want to go too far from discussing TMS so forgive me if I get carried away. Everyone has to do what feels right to them - just don't walk away from your Faith until you know and I mean really know what it is all about. It is actually very beautiful. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2007 : 19:49:52
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Stanfr--This is a topic I very much relate to. I was also raised Catholic; I think I went to mass every Sunday from as early as I can remember until I went off to college. Confession, Catechism--all of it.
I can go on and on about the Catholic Church, Christianity, and religion in general, but the point is, for me, it has been mostly a very negative thing. Never once did I feel this "love of God" people talk about. For me, it was only fear.
Meanwhile, I have a brother who became a born-again Christian many yrs ago and continues to hound me to death about the subject and the result is, I have never been further from belief than now. Only in the past year or so would I have had the nerve to admit even to myself that I have become an agnostic. Before, even though I had long dismissed much of the Christian dogma, my early Catholic brainwashing wouldn't allow me to sever the tie completely. Really, I think we become addicted to religion because it helps us explain and survive in a scary world. The truth doesn't matter as much as how it makes us feel, how it lets us cope with chaos.
You sound very much like me in regard to religion. Just because I now consider myself an agnostic does not mean I am satisfied. There is always that inner tension and insecurity in not being able to seek comfort and certainty in some all-encompassing religion that provides the answers.
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2007 : 02:20:49
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| Thanks for all your reponses and kind words. I should have made it clear that it was not Catholicism i was talking about but basic belief. I'm pretty close to agnostic right now, wrldtrv i can completely relate. It's a basic conflict between following what your mind tells you is Truth and common sense, or following what was instilled in me through years of teaching (mass, sunday school, a devout mother who i regarded as a living saint, etc). I most definitely will not throw the baby out with the water, but as Sky inferred i will have to be true to myself, wherever that leads. I guess the key is to not let the conflict bring you down emotionally or physically (TMS); i guess ill keep reading and stay open-minded. |
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swmr1
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2007 : 05:45:42
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This is an interesting thread. My experience with christianity has not been a healthy one. In fact, I think that the idea that we are born "sinful" contributed to the excessive amount of shame I think I've been carrying most of my life. Talk about something that could cause repressed rage!
Stanfr--not sure if you can PM on this site but I know of a couple of interesting resources you might have some interest in... |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 05:13:05
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Dear All
As a devout Catholic myself I can relate to much of the debate above. I certainly do not see myself as born sinful (Thomas a Becket is not central to my views) but do see God as loving and unlike others here I have not particularly read the Bible each night to get to Heaven, (as Richard Rohr says "paying the fire insurance.") but do read the Bible regularly to listen to God speaking to me. I think some of my TMS however relates to my faith. I think it took me a while to actually admit and not repress and suppress how angry at times I am with God. I suppose it's that father child relationship (I believe we are all children/ brothers and sisters in Christ) and as with many such relationships I was in a complete hissy fit about the loss of my Dad and the unfairness this felt ("Why God?" style thoughts). But as others have pointed out Jesus does not promise a smooth journey and perhaps this was part of my developing relationship with God. TMS may be partly came about for me as part of this angry relationship. I have not resolved all of this but I know at least I am in a more honest relationship with God now and TMS has certainly showed me my strength of faith in God for which I am grateful. I think 21st century sets us up for high expectations and life is still tricky. As to confession. I am a big fan...to completely honestly admit all that is worrying you and your deepest failings and shortcomings and yet to be completely forgiven, accepted and loved and given another chance... now that helps me! In fact maybe it is just what the TMSer in me needs?
Lizzie
PS: I have never told this to anyone before but, when I got very frustrated a year ago and did pray about my pain, it was that day I walked into a book shop and found a book by Sarno! Mysterious ways hey! |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 06:23:27
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Dear All
As a devout Catholic myself I can relate to much of the debate above. I certainly do not see myself as born sinful (Thomas a Becket is not central to my views) but do see God as loving and unlike others here I have not particularly read the Bible each night to get to Heaven, (as Richard Rohr writes "paying the fire insurance.") but do read the Bible regularly to listen to God speaking to me. I think some of my TMS however relates to my faith. I think it took me a while to actually admit and not repress and suppress how angry at times I am with God. I suppose it's that father child relationship (I believe we are all children/ brothers and sisters in Christ) and as with many such relationships I was in a complete hissy fit about the loss of my own Dad and related circumstances and the unfairness this felt ("Why God?" style thoughts). But as others have pointed out Jesus does not promise a smooth journey and perhaps this was part of my developing relationship with God. TMS partly came about for me I think because of the repression of this angry relationship from my side. I have not resolved all of this but I know at least I am in a more honest relationship with God now and TMS has certainly showed me my strength of faith in God for which I am grateful. I think 21st century sets us up for high expectations of a smooth, successful life r a blame culture when it is not and life is still and always will be tricky at times. As to confession. I am a big fan...to completely honestly admit all that is worrying you and your deepest failings and shortcomings and yet to be completely forgiven, accepted and loved and given another chance... now that helps me! In fact maybe it is just what the TMSer in me needs?
Lizzie
PS: I have never told this to anyone before but, when I got very frustrated a year ago and did pray about my pain, it was that same day I walked into a book shop and found a book by Sarno! Mysterious ways hey! |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 04:28:11
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Just wondered how i managed to post my reply above twice but it has never registerd as the last reply? Ho hum!
Lizzie
PS: Stanfr
Just looked at your original quote and it sounds like you have got a fear of TMS. I understand that! Fear of the pain is a big problem to me! Perhaps you need to work on that one too. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 11:16:46
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Interesting Lizzie,
I too finally prayed and asked God what to do about my pain - and guess what, in that one week, 4 separate people came up to me and told me about Sarno. It was completely weird!!
Thanks for your thoughts on your Faith - I too love Confession - how wonderful it is to receive that beautiful Grace! |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 21:07:07
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I could write a book on this topic..
Mother would put me to bed w/ fire and brimstone on a regular basis (could'nt I just get a fairytale?) you have to be saved..yada..yada..So I would go to bed thinking about hell everynight.
I think this is just b4 she became born again. She appeared to be happy then, but when that wore off she was convinced she made a mortal sin to the catholic church by going born again. Ugh, why could'nt I just have a normal mom.
Now w/ three kids of my own, I don't take them to church and feel horrible about it. They do religion class once a week during school year, and vacation Bible school this summer. But the questions I get about death, heaven and hell make my head spin.
I begin answers w/ "we believe" which makes them question everything, because they can see I don't know what to believe.
edit: sorry stanfr, you asked for advice, and I rambled and had none. Hope you find some comfort that some of us relate though.
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Edited by - skizzik on 07/27/2007 21:26:06 |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2007 : 10:58:06
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Skizzik: no problem, it does help to know others deal with the same issues.
Lizzie: yes, a lot of my anger is directed at God. According to my therapist, this is a good thing, since at least i have something to direct the anger towards. I wonder though, that if i didn't have a "target" perhaps the anger would not persist. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2007 : 11:08:02
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Stanfr,
I believe that having a target is a good thing because it allows us a real way to get that anger out. If there were no targets, then some people who have a hard time expressing anger might just continue to let it fester inside creating havoc, tms etc... |
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Spiritual Crisis
