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LuvtoSew
USA
327 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2007 : 15:00:52
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Heard Oral Roberts say on tv today
That fear can cause disease and prevent healing.
Fearing that you will not ever get better probably means you never will.
Having faith that you'll get better, you probably will.
God never gave us the emotion of fear- so it had to come from Satan.
Fear can make a person feel so powerless and hopeless.
I know fear is something I need to overcome, one of my biggest negative traits. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2007 : 19:28:47
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Interestingly, some of the earliest criticisms of the Word of Faith movement, which Oral Roberts is associated with, has come from faculty members at Oral Roberts University, including Professor Charles Farah and one of his students, Daniel Ray McConnell. McConnell submitted a PhD thesis to the university detailing his assertion that the teachings of the movement are heretical, which was later published in a book, A Different Gospel, in 1988. See: http://www.amazon.com/Different-Gospel-Biblical-Historical-Insights/dp/1565631323
You can read about the Word of Faith movement here, which has several links at the bottom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith
*******
Sarno-ize it!
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2007 : 00:16:57
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" If not spiritual- ignore "
Shawn, glad to see that you are opening up to G_d and religion.
 
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Edited by - tennis tom on 05/26/2007 08:43:53 |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2007 : 09:31:26
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| For god did not give us the spirit of fear, but of POWER, LOVE and of a SOUND MIND. |
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natureboys
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2007 : 10:27:38
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Oral Roberts is saying something valuable here for TMS'ers, but there's a few lines I'm doubtful about:
1. Fearing that you will not ever get better probably means you never will.
ME: If I were sick, and a friend said this to me, the comment would increase my fear. And I'd be angry too. Also, I believe you can fear like crazy and still get better.
God never gave us the emotion of fear- so it had to come from Satan.
ME: I think God DID give us fear. Fear has been instrumental to human survival.
Speaking of fear, a lot of preachers try to create fear in their flock. Fear is probably the major 'tool' by which religions have converted people. The fear is usually "you'll go to hell" if you don't do what we say.
Nowadays, though, we've got a lot of preachers toning down the hell story, and talking the love and forgiveness of God, which I certainly believe in.
Personally, I buy the position of Vatican 11, written back in 1964, which is something like this: "Intellectually, we believe that there may be a hell, which we would define as a place that is totally absence of God's Love. However, because of God's infinite capacity to forgive, we're not sure anybody would be there."
Joe Garrett |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
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LuvtoSew
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 02:32:51
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I guess I was just trying to say how fear can have such an impact on our lives. Fear to make a change in our lives, fear to take a job because we feel were not qualified, fear of getting a medical test for fear of finding out we have cancer, fear of showing our true feelings in case we are rejected, fear of being honest with someone or ourselves, fear of a disease, or fear of loosing everything we worked for and fear of moving so as not to cause more pain.
Living in fear and worry is like having to tow around 50lbs weights on our feet. I also feel living in fear and worry can cause self anger, "Wish I would of" or " I should of's".
"Intellectually, we believe that there may be a hell, which we would define as a place that is totally absence of God's Love. However, because of God's infinite capacity to forgive, we're not sure anybody would be there."
I do believe God is forgiving as long as you confess and repent. I do not believe everyone automatically goes to heaven because they believe tho, Satan believes in God and he isn't in heaven.
I need to fear and worry less about the future, and live more in faith.
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 06:35:37
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Luvtosew
Your faith could be one of the major sources of your TMS as religion places a lot of pressure on the self to be good with the threat of eternal hellfire hanging over you if you are not. You are placed in a position of never being good enough and fearing that you are going to be punished if you even stray slightly from the path. Dr. Sarno writes about the impact of strict religious teachings and I recommend you read that section over again and see to what extent it applies to you.
Please note, I am not dissing anyone's faith here, but merely pointing out that religious teachings can place a lot of pressure on a person which becomes enraging to the internal self, even when they think it is offering them peace and solace.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
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LuvtoSew
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 07:17:29
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Shawnsmith,
Your right and I said that before in one of my earlier posts. I'm not God fearing as I was raised in the Catholic religion to be but I do love the Lord and want to honor him in all I do, but I sure feel quilt if I don't do what I know I should.
I am the type that will let people walk over me and then I'll pray for them. I
I realize at the age of 52 that I need to change some of this and like I said go to confession weekly if need be!!!! but I need to quit being like that as I feel that it is building up resentment in me that turns into anger and frustration.
I will re-read that part. Thanks for your input.
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 07:46:46
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LTS,
I know you've got lots of TMS books on your reading list, but I wanted to suggest another one book you might find helpful. It's called "Feal the Fear and Do it Anyway," by Susan Jeffers. It's a great intro to the topic of fear and how to work past it to achieve the things we want in life. Very practical, and it addresses all the different kinds of fears you mentioned.
ss |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
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natureboys
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 10:15:09
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A few posts back I was speculating to LuvtoSew that fear was given us by God, not Satan. LuvtoSew responded:
I guess I was just trying to say how fear can have such an impact on our lives. Fear to make a change in our lives, fear to take a job because we feel were not qualified...
...Living in fear and worry is like having to tow around 50lbs weights on our feet. I also feel living in fear and worry can cause self anger, "Wish I would of" or " I should of's".
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS. I've been a chronic worrier, still am at times.
I ALSO POSTED EARLIER, the Vatican II postion on hell, as explained to me by a monk/clinical psychologist who lives at a Catholic monasetery: "Intellectually, we believe that there may be a hell, which we would define as a place that is totally absence of God's Love. However, because of God's infinite capacity to forgive, we're not sure anybody would be there."
LUVTOSEW responded: I do believe God is forgiving as long as you confess and repent. I do not believe everyone automatically goes to heaven because they believe tho, Satan believes in God and he isn't in heaven.
ME: I'm not sure anybody has to believe anything about God or confess or repent to end up in heaven (which I'll define as simply our individual consciousness continuing on into another life). Here's a thought -- maybe 'heavens' are individual, they're pretty much a reflection of what you've sown in this life, so it can be like hell if you've been an awful person. But I think it would be like hell only for a while, not for eternity, because it's another life -- another chance to grow and change and get things right. Maybe the next life is sort of like a re-hab center. (in Malibu! (ha))
But what about people like Adolph Hitler? Hmmm. Maybe they stay in a hell-like place for a long, long time. Or maybe people like him are pure evil, and they go into a hell-like place becaues they actually WANT to be there, along with, if they're real -- and I don't discount the possibility that they are -- the Devil and his demons.
Also, LovtoSew, I've heard of a book that deals directly with TMS conditions, it even quotes Sarno, but it's written for Christians by a Christian. A patient of Dr. Schecter's told me about it. If you're interested, I could try to get the name of the book for you. Or maybe somebody on this forum has heard of it??
Joe Garrett |
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If not spiritual- ignore
