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jkouwenh
Netherlands
9 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2007 : 02:14:06
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As we all know with TMS there is a subconscious creating physical symptoms to distract us from internal rage, anxiety etcetera. So there is a good reason for the subconscious to do so, at least "it" thinks there is. Unfortunately the outcome is not as desired for the human as a whole.
On this forum the book "Taming your gremlin" is mentioned several times. I have bought and read it and found it very hard to digest. My main problem with it is: why does everybody have a Gremlin and what is its drive or goal? Which "good intentions" are behind it or aren't there any?
I hope somebody can enlighten me. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 06:21:02
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As noted by Dr. Sarno et al, the physical symptoms are not only their to distract but, ironically enough, to protect you. There are some really powerful repressed emotions- primarily rage- in the unconscious and if they were to ever fully to come into our conscious awareness we would go insane or become some kind of pyscho-path. The pain is generated by the brain to protect you from keeping your attention on these rather nasty and embarassing emotions, and they are never going to go away as they are stored in your body forever as molecules (See Pert and Chopra). In order to recover you have to acknowledge what is taking place and literally tell your brain that you are now in charge. The best piece of advice that Dr. Sarno ever gave in his entire book was to "resume normal physical activity" as you cannot hurt yourself. This is all outlined in Healing Back Pain and I recommend you read it again.
*******
Sarno-ize it!
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 08:57:54
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"The gremlin" is a light-hearted way referring to the part of the unconscious/subconscious mind that would prefer us to have pain than experience dangerous emotion. This part of the mind believes that the emotion is dangerous to us. Its goal is to protect us, because the emotions are powerful and may cause us a lot of pain if we don't repress them. This is a good intention, but it has a bad result.
Because it goes about it in a way that we ultimately find is not helpful, our conscious mind can decide "No, I would rather not turn my repressed feelings into pain. Thus, I'm going to acknowledge that I have them, and then I will not need the pain, because I don't need to be protected." We can talk to the unconscious mind, saying that we don't need to be protected anymore and can handle the situation. This is taming the gremlin: telling it that causing pain will no longer work as a distraction, so it stops doing so.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 09:07:46
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I haven't noticed the book you mention discussed on the forum. (If so, please point me to the threads--it sounds like an interesting book.)
Some people on the forum refer to the "TMS gremlin." In my understanding, that's just a name we use to describe the sneaky unconscious/subconsious mind that uses pain (TMS symptoms) as a distraction (and protection) from what it perceives to be more painful threat: your buried emotions.
I just took a quick look at the book you mention on amazon, and it looks like Rick Carson's "Gremlin" refers to our inner critic. (Susan Jeffers, in Feal the Fear and Do it Anyway, calls it the "Chatterbox.")
I could be wrong, but I think we have two different Gremlins here...
But they do both serve a sort of protective function. The inner critic Gremlin seems negative, but s/he's really trying to keep you safe. When a fear is registered in the brain/mind/body, the inner crittic tries to drive you away from the fear ("You're scared to apply for a new job. Don't do it!" And, just to insure that you won't face the fear, s/he adds, "Plus, you couldn't get the job anyway, because you're not smart enough."). Essentially, these negative thoughts flood our consciousness to protect us, but they become very counterproductive if we listen to them.
Does this make sense?
ss |
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Penny
USA
364 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2007 : 17:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
The pain is generated by the brain to protect you from keeping your attention on these rather nasty and embarassing emotions, and they are never going to go away as they are stored in your body forever as molecules (See Pert and Chopra).
A few relevant quotables from Alice Walker's wonderful book _The Drama of the Gifted Child_
The truth about childhood is stored up in our bodies and lives in the depths of our souls. Our intellect can be deceived, our feelings can be numbed and manipulated, our perceptions shamed and confused, our bodies tricked with medication, but our soul never forgets. And because we are one, one whole soul in one body, someday our body will present its bill. The wounded and lost child is only in hiding; the soul is still whole in spirit. Ultimately, our deepest self will accept no compromises or excuses, and it will not stop tormenting or contaminating us until we stop evading the truth.
Our true, repressed life story is stored up in our body, which attempts to recount it and be listened to, by way of symptoms. This is in fact for our own well-being, as denial is highly destructive to the adult. Demands to forgive and other moral issues do not reach our cells; they cannot fool them. Cells can indeed be manipulated and betrayed by drugs over a certain period of time. In the long run however, they can only cope with the truth. As soon as the truth can be slowly explored, thanks to conscious experience of once repressed feelings, the language of symptoms becomes superfluous. They simply disappear.
>|< Penny
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
The Great and Powerful Oz |
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jkouwenh
Netherlands
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 02:29:03
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Thank you all for your responses to my question. They are all helpful and enlightening. However, Sonora Sky comes closest to the issue I'm struggling with. By the way, the book from Rick Carson "Taming your gremlin" is mentioned in several threads, but I don't think there's a thread that really discusses it.
Coming back to my issue, I am still not sure if we are talking about 2 different gremlins or not. I asked this question to Rick Carson himself as well and his assistant promised me he would reply. I hope he will do so shortly and I will of course let you know when he has.
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 08:04:32
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Hi, please do let us know what he says. The more I think about it, the more I see the two gremlins as being linked, like twins, or two sides of the same 'force' (for lack of a better word). To me, Sarno's gremlin, the un/subconsious mind, is the sneaky/silent protector who works behind the scenes. (Penny's signature about the Great and Powerful Oz got me thinking.) Carson's Gremlin, the inner critic, is the vocalizer, the pyrotechnic Oz, the one who floods our conscious mind with unfounded, unrealistic fears.
Both gremlins, when unchecked, can keep us stuck, paralzyed with fear. While these both originated as protective functions, they have morphed into insurmountable obstactles in today's (w'ern) society. I'm sure these functions have been a part of the human makeup since 'the beginning.' People have delt with them through the centuries and over the millenia, quite successfully, or at least more successfully than we are today. I find the cause of this 'Gremlin problem' to be largely cultural/societal (factors which in turn affect the psyche) and distinctly 'modern.' In my studies of late-19th century culture (specifically American and European) I'm continually seeing the beginnings of psychosomatic disorders on a mass scale. And I think the issues that provoked such disorders are not unlike the issues we are still grapling with today, though in a much accelerated/amplified setting. That was the beginning of modernity (in my opinion) and this, 2007, is modernity in hyper-drive.
I really think that, as a society, we are going to get past this phase, and future people will look back on this era as the time we lost control over our internal selves, allowing our lives to be dictated by external 'reality.'
Woah, sorry to go off on a tangent, but I tend to see the small in terms of the big.
ss |
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jkouwenh
Netherlands
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 08:00:39
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Today I received an answer from Rick Carson himself. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this with you:
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"Thanks for your email, Jaap. In answer to your question: your gremlin is out to squelch the vibrant soul you really are. His sole intention is to dampen the richness of your exsistance. This internal duality comes with the territory of being alive. Why this is so, I don't know.
I followed the link you provided and noted some of the discussion on the TMS forum page. I feel sure reading Taming Your Gremlin will clear up any questions participants may have regarding gremlin taming.
I regret that my schedule doesn't permit me time to get into on-going email correspondence, but I wanted to respond to your email, Jaap, hope I've been helpful and thanks again for taking the time to write.
Warmest Regards,
Rick"
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I still feel I get the "Sarno-Gremlin" and have tamed him for the best part. However, I don't understand the "Carson-Gremlin" and find it hard to tame him.
But of course this is the TMS forum and not the "Taming your Gremlin"-forum so maybe I must be somewhere else. I appreciate everybody's input though! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 09:27:21
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That's way cool, JK! 
****
"This internal duality comes with the territory of being alive. Why this is so, I don't know."
****
This jibes with Dr. Sarno's assertion that TMS psychosmatic pain is universal and part of the human condition, along with the inferiority complex which is at it's base.
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 12:59:16
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quote:
Originally posted by jkouwenh
Today I received an answer from Rick Carson himself.
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" In answer to your question: your gremlin is out to squelch the vibrant soul you really are. His sole intention is to dampen the richness of your exsistance."
Interesting to read Carson's description of his gremlin. It doesn't sound like he made a distinction between the sarno gremlin and his inner critic gremlin. Perhaps this is due to his not being familiar with TMS theory(?). I think discussion of the unconscious mind and the inner critic are both relevant to TMS.
My gut reaction is to disagree with Carson's premise that there is a core part of us that basically wants to sabotage ourselves for no reason other than to enjoy a good cackle while we wallow in misery. This is just hard to believe, given the basic human instinct to survive and to thrive (evolutionarily speaking). And this is definitely contradictory to Sarno's description of the un/subconsious mind that causes pysical distractions to protect us. It makes more sense [to me, of course!] that our inner critic is simply vocalizing fears, not to try to squelch our happiness, but to protect us from what is potentially threatening to our existence. If we take him too seriously, we give him more power than he deserves. Sure, if we begin to view him as this huge, raging monster who is out to get us, what can we do but fight a constant battle with him until we croak? I'm tired of viewing my mind as being at war with itself.
I agree that there is a duality, but I see it as a preservation mechanism that, when in balance, can lead to a happy, healthy, productive life. I don't think the answer is to squelch the beast in order to live a life of utter bliss (and I highly doubt this is possible or desireable for that matter) but to keep a balance between the cheering and the jeering voices. They are just passing thoughts and do not determine action or outcome. That choice is up to you.
ss |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 13:55:47
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If this other gremlin is the inner critic, I heavily doubt it is just part of being alive. But it probably is just part of being alive in our unhealthy, emotion-repressing, perfection-demanding society.
Bradshaw's view of shame seems apt here. There is healthy shame which reminds us that we are not perfect, have limits, and make mistakes. And there is toxic shame which tells us we are not good people, that we are basically unfit in some way (e.g. because we get angry sometimes, or make mistakes occasionally). Insofar as I understand this, people who have real trouble with their inner critic are those who have toxic shame.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 18:51:39
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The gremlin is there because we as TMS'ers have repressed rage generated long ago and even though we have grown up and have consciously put the past behind us the past has not forgotten what happened and the child part of us connected to the past is scared #$%^less that those dangerous feelings of rage are going to come out.
Thx Penny for the Alice Miller quote. It is one of my favorite. |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 21:39:38
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
If this other gremlin is the inner critic, I heavily doubt it is just part of being alive. But it probably is just part of being alive in our unhealthy, emotion-repressing, perfection-demanding society.
ACL, you don't believe the inner critic is a fundamental part of the human psyche (i.e. something that has always existed in the human mind), but something that has developed in recent years as a response to our environment? Factually/historically, I can't prove either way to be true, but my hunch is that humans have always had the inner critic voice but have dealt with it differently, depending on our particular environment. Like, now, it seems like such a big obstacle, but centuries ago, given particular belief systems, worldviews, etc., it may not have registered as more than a blip in people's thoughts. They just didn't give much weight to it. This is where I think all this ego-driven introspection and self-reflection that we do today can backfire: it tends to spotlight all the goings on of the mind, bringing undue attention the inner critic voice.
Not trying to harp on this...I just think it's an interesting topic. I'll see if I can fish up any historical info on evidence [or not] of the inner critic, pre-1800.
ss |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 09:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by sonora sky
This is where I think all this ego-driven introspection and self-reflection that we do today can backfire: it tends to spotlight all the goings on of the mind, bringing undue attention the inner critic voice.
ss
Good point, in the good ol' days all we had to worry about was not being eaten by a sabre-toothed tiger or dying at child-birth. Now we have all the noise, chatter and sparks of the moderne world to drive us nuts.
Some of my favorite excerpts from " _THE DIVIDED MIND_ " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 10:35:54
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Hi Jkouwenh
I haven't posted on the board for quite some time, but I was someone who discussed Rick Carson's Gremlin more than once.
Since first reading his book, I realised that the ideas he expresses would not appeal, or be relevant to everyone who was suffering from TMS; but for me, that book really hit the spot.
I'd just taken early retirement from school teaching - retirement that was forced on me because of unbearable back pain and depression that worsened after I stopped work.
After all the usual tests and treatments that people with back pain go through, I found out about Dr Sarno and TMS and began to recover slowly.
I read extensively at that time - books on psychosomatic conditions and books on treating anxiety and depression. I read Rick Carson's book and just loved it! It was like a breath of fresh air - his ideas made me laugh at my problems. Things just didn't seem so bad after that.
I'm back teaching again now - back pain gone. If I find myself becoming overly anxious, I just tell my gremlin to behave itself. It's a light hearted way to treat it, but it really works for me.
Best wishes
Anne
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Edited by - n/a on 05/31/2007 10:37:47 |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 12:12:32
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| Anne- It's nice to see you back on the board. I've come a long way since those days a couple of years ago when I was in the desperate stage. I credit your support as very helpful in getting me over the TMS hump so to speak and I think I will always be grateful to you for it. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 13:00:16
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SS, I guess I think that we do all have an inner critic to some extent, our healthy shame that reminds us we are not perfect. But having an inner critic that really sabotages us and tries to take away our joy I think is probably due to toxic shame and related issues (TMSish emotional stuff), not just part of human existence.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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jkouwenh
Netherlands
9 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 13:24:13
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| Thank you all for your wise input. It is really helpful to some extent, but not all the way. That leaves something for me to work out myself... |
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sonora sky
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 13:45:04
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Let us know what you're thinking about, with regards to this topic. There's sure a lot to chew on. 
ss |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2007 : 17:52:00
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| Havent read Carson's book, will have to look into it, but from reading this post, sounds just like F. Schiffer's dual mind idea, and i just finished his book. |
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Subconscious and Gremlin: equivalents?
