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Woodchuck
USA
111 Posts |
 Posted - 05/19/2007 : 12:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
I am seeing a pattern emerging here, that a number of the board people are members of AA or have been. I've heard about the 12 step program but that's about it. I enjoy a cocktail or a beer now and again but have never had a problem with alcohol. Maybe part of the AA program is having to prostrate oneself in front of the group and admit to doing bad things. I don't know, but I'm sensing that 50% of Art's irritation with me is that I won't drop-down and admit to some character flaws that I am not guilty of, in my NOT so humble opinion.
So the question is, is the board being influenced by an over-lay of the rules of the AA program? Anyone out there who knows please answer....
TT, not to worry. If you do a little Google research you will see it is impossibe that the board is being influenced by an over-lay of the "rules" of the AA program ;)
That being said, for me, the AA 12-Step Program fits like a glove with my TMS issues. In fact, having struggled for years with alcoholism, 21+ years ago I had an "ah-ha!" realization as a result of the 12-Steps and I lost the urge to drink instantaneously and it has never returned. Likewise, when I finally realized I truly was experiencing TMS, it was a similar "ah-ha!" recognition. Within a little over a week all pain was gone and not a noticeable twinge since. Doesn't matter if it is alcoholism, over-eating problems, obsessive-compulsive issues or pure ego/arrogance itself, etc., a 12-Step Program can help one see himself as he truly is and then have the courage to work on whatever character flaws he finds. And everyone has them. In most cases one begins to realize how immature his emotions are and then starts the slow process of growing up. All very painful stuff to go through but immeasurably rewarding in feeling good about one's self and feeling right with those around him and therefore, very likely, IMHO, less repressed negative emotions such as anger/rage with its underlying fear.
Even though the AA "rules" cannot influence this board, one thing I can assure you is that I will mention AA as often and as lengthy as I feel necessary, for myself, as it is relevant to my continued awareness of my TMS issues.
Hope this at least partially answers your concerns.
Woodchuck |
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Sky
USA
96 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 12:54:06
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That was fascinating Chuck. Thanks.
I've become a big fan of THE WIRE on HBO, and a major theme in the show is why people become drug addicts. I've listened to the writer of the show, David Simon, describe this aspect of the show, and it always reminded me of TMS theories and how we use various tools (TMS pain, drugs, etc.) to run away from thoughts/emotions that, for a possibly infinite number of reasons, we are afraid to feel.
Simon's 6-part miniseries "THE CORNER" focuses exlusively on drug addicts, and its emphasis on the need for drug addicts TO ADMIT TO THEMSELVES that they are drug addicts and WHY they are drug addicts is a fundamental message in the series.
It calls to mind my own problem with the US' war on drugs. Quitting drugs is a process of introspection and honesty, not punishment so much.
Anyway, how about THIS for getting off topic? 
Regadless, I really appreciated your post, Woodchuck. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 00:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Woodchuck
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
I am seeing a pattern emerging here, that a number of the board people are members of AA or have been. I've heard about the 12 step program but that's about it. I enjoy a cocktail or a beer now and again but have never had a problem with alcohol. Maybe part of the AA program is having to prostrate oneself in front of the group and admit to doing bad things. I don't know, but I'm sensing that 50% of Art's irritation with me is that I won't drop-down and admit to some character flaws that I am not guilty of, in my NOT so humble opinion.
So the question is, is the board being influenced by an over-lay of the rules of the AA program? Anyone out there who knows please answer....
...a 12-Step Program can help one see himself as he truly is and then have the courage to work on whatever character flaws he finds. And everyone has them. In most cases one begins to realize how immature his emotions are and then starts the slow process of growing up. All very painful stuff to go through but immeasurably rewarding in feeling good about one's self and feeling right with those around him and therefore, very likely, IMHO, less repressed negative emotions such as anger/rage with its underlying fear.
Woodchuck
Thanks for the explanation WC. In a way it sounds like the concept of original sin.
And, I would NEVER dream of stopping you or anyone else from expressing their thoughts and feelings here; hope people give me the same right. It's just that I thought I saw a pattern, that's all.
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Woodchuck
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 02:27:33
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Thanks for the explanation WC. In a way it sounds like the concept of original sin.
One might view it that way I suppose from a religious perspective, but I view it as acknowledging my actions/reactions that harm myself and others and then stopping those actions. And if amends are in order, following through with that as well. Basically cleaning up my side of the street and leaving others alone to clean up theirs when and if they choose to do so. That part is none of my business. I can only control my behavior/responses to circumstances and try to improve as I go along. So, it is an ongoing process. For example, one of my weaknesses, character defects if you will or natural tendencies that my next door neighbor may not have, is a hot temper and I've harmed myself and others with it repeatedly, especially prior to getting sober. This did not go away immediately like my desire to drink did. It is something I have to stay conscious of and work on daily. I've gotten much better over the years, but it is still there at times recoiled and ready to strike ;) If I do "lose it" as I occasionally do, I am quick to apologize for my part in creating/enhancing a negative situation and I try to get it resolved and out of the way quickly! It is not because I necessarily want to be a "good" guy, it is because if I don't rectify it quickly, as I've learned over the years, it can then turn into a festering resentment, or I can deny/justify the resentment through my ego (he/she deserved it!) and maybe unconsciously suppress it and then start wondering why my sciatica came back ;) I think that's where the 12-Step guidelines may be useful in dealing with TMS; heading it off at the pass, so to speak ;) - a method to recognize and deal with harmful emotions before they are suppressed. I'm not saying this is for everyone, but at least for me, I think following these guidelines gives me a better chance in the long-term in dealing with my TMS.
Woodchuck |
Edited by - Woodchuck on 05/20/2007 03:50:59 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 08:11:31
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Hi Woodchuck
They have a poem in England (don't know about Ameeerica):
"How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood."
That important distraction aside, I just wanted to mention that, to my surprise after decades of mild snobbery, I have become a 12-Stepper (AlAnon) and I find it extremely harmonious with TMS work. It seems as though any and all addictions are a TMS equivalent, or vice versa.
Which brings me to the point I've made somewhere else that it is difficult to imagine who and what we would be if we felt all our feelings in the moment!
Thanks for holding your truth and staying in your own business (as they say).
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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Woodchuck
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 09:16:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
Hi Woodchuck
They have a poem in England (don't know about Ameeerica):
"How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood."
That important distraction aside, I just wanted to mention that, to my surprise after decades of mild snobbery, I have become a 12-Stepper (AlAnon) and I find it extremely harmonious with TMS work. It seems as though any and all addictions are a TMS equivalent, or vice versa.
Which brings me to the point I've made somewhere else that it is difficult to imagine who and what we would be if we felt all our feelings in the moment!
Thanks for holding your truth and staying in your own business (as they say).
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question
Yep, that little poem is popular here as well ;)
I started using Woodchuck as a CB "handle" years ago during the Citizens' Band Radio craze of the 70's and carried it over to the Internet...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_band_radio
I think Woodchuck and Groundhog are synonymous, so it is not a flattering handle, but it stuck with me all these years. LOL!
Good for you on Al-Anon! And I hope the other party involved is doing well too! Dealing with TMS pain on a one day at a time basis also makes perfect sense to me.
Cheers!
Woodchuck |
Edited by - Woodchuck on 05/20/2007 09:24:58 |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 12:49:19
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Late again!
That's me.
I just read this thread, and was appalled that I too was mentioned in Alexis' Bio, and nobody has acknowleged this. Some thing about Tom being quoted as saying "Many of us (H20 & me) . . ."
Well, I'm truly flattered to be mentioned in the Bio of Alexis, but I just can't figure out why, yet.
Alexis has always seemed to want to cast doubt on the good doctor's TMS theory, and while that certainly has it's place, that place is NOT a TMS Help Forum. We all fight now and again, and it's entertaining, even healthy I belive - considering we're a repressed bunch to begin with, and any venting is good venting.
Still, Alexis casting doubt on the good doctor's TMS theory does NOTHING for the people who come here in pain, in doubt, in desperation looking for the sound advice of seasoned self healers who went before them.
Regards,
Beth |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 11:49:18
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Fearing starting a new thread all about ME, and waking Art up, also not wanting to pick at a scab of a thread, I did find a good quote, from Dr. Marc Sopher's great little TMS tome, TO BE or NOT TO BE... PAIN-FREE, that is at the crux of the issue that BEGAN the "feud":
Page 42,
"So why are physicians so reluctant to embrace TMS theory? For starters, it is difficult to measure. The scientific approach mandates that any treatment be evaluated by formal testing, involving control groups, "blind" evaluations, "double blind" protocols, etc. Too often TMS physicians are dismissed by colleagues who state that the TMS treatment results are "anecdotal". The implication is that our results are invalid because we do not employ scientific protocol. To be blunt, this would be absolutely impossible. To treat someone with TMS, that individual must believe that their phsyical smptoms have a psychological basis. Period. You cannot inflict TMS treatment on someone who believes that their symptoms have a physical cause--be it a disc problem, heel spur, carpal tunnel problem, etc. It cannot be done. This has to do with the extensive conditioning that has occurred (*see Conditioning chapter*)."
So, discerning from the far end of the playing field, who is the idiot and who is the imbecile (I was called both by Alexis), that's what the big deal was about. It wasn't about any personality conflict in it's origin. It was about keeping the TMS info "accurate" and faithful to the name of the board. It's a fundamental of TMS and in that regard I am a fundamentlaist. I accepted the evidence and she did not initially, but seems to be getting it now.
Alexis has a problem with me because I refuse to bow to the NY Times or Harvard style books and speak souly from the TT style book. Also she may have a problem accepting TMS as being "scientificly" valid because her father is a doctor. I don't know, just a conjecture on my part.
Dave, feel free to jetison this thread at your will.
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 12:18:28
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quote:
Fearing starting a new thread all about ME, and waking Art up,
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 12:54:50
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quote:
Originally posted by art
quote:
Fearing starting a new thread all about ME, and waking Art up,
Don't you remember Art?; you just said that I was always starting threads all about ME? And I retorted, not true, that I seldom start new threads. Maybe you were at the driving range? I hope you hit a slew of holes-in-one today.
Cheers,
tt 
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Edited by - tennis tom on 05/22/2007 12:59:49 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 14:11:37
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I've not been out yet, T (has our friendship progressed to the point where I can drop one of those T's yet?. My shoulder has been a bear. Thankfully, I'm better. Long, long haul. Planning to play Memorial Day..
I'll let you know if I break 80, but only on condition you let me cheat... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 00:37:16
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quote:
Originally posted by art
I've not been out yet, T (has our friendship progressed to the point where I can drop one of those T's yet?. My shoulder has been a bear. Thankfully, I'm better. Long, long haul. Planning to play Memorial Day..
I'll let you know if I break 80, but only on condition you let me cheat...
Sure Art, you can call me T, I've been called much worse and am anxiously awaiting WorldTraveler's response to my car collection list.
It's OK by me if you cheat on your scorecard, no one goes to Hell for cheating at golf (or tennis I hope). Sometimes you have to cheat to even out the score when the other guy is cheating. It's amazing, when you cheat a cheater back they suddenly stop doing it. They must figure out that it won't do them any good and their opponent may be better at it.
Some of my favorite excerpts from " THE DIVIDED MIND " :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 06:48:15
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Your hero Bill Clinton was reknowned for his liberal use of the toe wedge...No surprise there...
I never cheat on my score...I have however been known to improve my lie from time to time... |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 12:38:32
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What's a toe wedge?
Beth |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2007 : 18:47:30
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quote:
Originally posted by h2oskier25
What's a toe wedge?
Beth
giving the ball a little kick out of a rough spot when no-one is lookin |
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Hi Alexis
