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allen_non
55 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2007 : 06:02:33
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I may be able to help. Being in your mid fifties should have no real bearing on your ability to improve as long as you have a smart training plan that gradually increases your volume, and allows sufficient time for recovery. I'm 45, and other than my "high mileage", am in pretty much the best condition of my life, and I've always had high demands for my physical performance.
If you want to go off-forum for this, email me at
allen_non (at) yahoo (dotcom)
Or you can reply here, whichever you prefer. Let me know your current level, what your goals are, what training you're currently doing, & how much time you have for training, and I'll see if I can help ya.
Allen |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 08:04:08
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Thanks Allen,
My experience has been that there's a huge difference between 45 and 55...When I was 45, I was not at all far removed from the peak performances of my mid-30's....It was when I hit 50 or so that the bottom fell out...I'm easily 3 minutes slower per mile than I was in my early forties...
The thing I've really come to realize is that I need lots of recovery time, more recovery time than in many instances I'm willing to allow...If I wanted to run at my best evry time, I'd be taking two days off in between evry run, and I'm not about to do that...So bottom line for me has become not performance but injury avoidance....From that point of view, I can do some form of working out 5 or even 6 days a week sometimes, provided I x-train...But there's a price to pay in terms of performance...My default state these days is slow and stiff, but I don't care. What's important to me at the age of 56 is to be out there doing it, not setting records for myself...
Pushups...I had to lay off for months due to the shoulder, but I'm up to 31 at this point...My goal is to hit 56, one pushup for evry year....in my late 30's I could knock off 75 without even breathing hard, so there again, a precipitous drop off... |
Edited by - art on 04/02/2007 08:07:48 |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 08:48:14
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Hey Art,
I've got some push up set/ rep workout schemes that I used to use and worked very well. They take reps, based on percentages of your max set, and have you working on smaller sets through out the day, as opposed to a few max sets. The end result is a lot of volume spread over a longer period so you can recover in between. Has worked for a lot of friends of mine, and worked for me as well when I was "into" push ups. I still do a set of 40 once or twice a week just to maintain the ability.
I'll dig up the workouts later today or tomorrow and post them here for you. You can take a look at them, and if they look like they would work for you, that's great, if they don't look useful to you, no problem there either.
Allen
<If this is an improper use for this forum, please advise & we can switch to email, no problem by me. Don't want to cause any stirs.> |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 12:53:54
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Thanks Allen, that would be great...There might be enough workout types hanging around that such a thing might be of general interest. if you think not, e-mail artvandolay2001@yahoo.com
Many thanks again... |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 13:40:00
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I'll post the routines here once I dig them up. If anyone objects at some point, we can switch to emailing. They are actually some fun workouts (if you're a self-abuser like me!).
Allen |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 15:19:18
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Hey Art, and anyone else interested.
First, let me say this is not my material, nor do I take credit for it. It was devised by Pavel Tsatsouline, a former physical training instructor for Russian spec ops. He knows what works...
Ok, here's the first of 2 programs but they both work the same way. Monday (easiest 'cause it's the first day of the week) you do a max set to find out what your 100% maximum is.
Let's say you can do 30 pushups max. Take 30% of 30 pushups (= 9 for the mathematically impaired) and do 9 pushups once every 60 minutes. Tuesday, do 50% x 30 for 15 pushups once every 60 minutes, for most of the waking hours of the day.
Do not fret too much if you miss a set here or there (Don't pull over driving home from work to do a set). I just did my sets while at work. Follow the percentages/ intervals for weeks 1 & 2, then on Monday of week 3, re-test. I would do 2, maybe 3 two-week cycles of this, then something else for a couple of weeks.
This is a LOT of front shoulder pushing volume. It's a good idea to do some pull ups, rows, or other upper body pulling to keep everything in balance. Not because of "muscle imbalances", but because it's good to keep opposing muscle groups at about the same strength level if you want your strength to improve. I'll bore somebody with the details if ya really want me to.
"Hit The Deck" Program
WEEK 1 %of RM Frequency
Monday 100% eval 30% 60min
Tuesday 50% 60min
Wednesday 60% 45min
Thursday 25% 60min
Friday 45% 30min
Saturday 40% 60min
Sunday 20% 90min
WEEK 2
Monday 100% eval 35% 45min
Tuesday 55% 20min
Wednesday 30% 15min
Thursday 65% 60min
Friday 35% 45min
Saturday 45% 60min
Sunday 25% 120min
WEEK 3
Monday 100% eval rinse & repeat
Second program in next "new reply"....
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2007 : 15:28:08
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Ok, here's the second program. A little different from the first, gets somewhat more intense sooner if you breezed thru the other. Same rules, test to get max rep number, then apply percentages & time intervals. Some additional pointers at the end (applies to both programs).
One other thing- very important- forget every time your drill instructor or football coach made you do reps until you "couldn't go no more". Bad, bad, bad. When doing this program (or other strength training), always end your set BEFORE you reach failure. There are mental reasons as well as physical. Again, I won't bore you with the details unless you make me.
If you have any questions, just let me know. Hope this helps a bit! Let me know how it works out if you decide to try it!
Allen
"Drop and Give Me 100 Push-ups!" Program
WEEK 1 %of RM Frequency
Monday 100% eval 40% 60min
Tuesday 50% 30min
Wednesday 70% 45min
Thursday 40% 60min
Friday 80% 60min
Saturday 55% 90min
Sunday 20% 90min
WEEK 2
Monday 100% eval 90% 120min
Tuesday 45% 60min
Wednesday 20% 10min
Thursday 65% 90min
Friday 75% 60min
Saturday 30% 90min
Sunday 15% 120min
WEEK 3
Monday 100% eval
General Pushup Pointers
• Keep the weight on the heels of your hands
• Grip width is up to you. You may vary it from set to set
• Keep your chest wide open to pre-stretch the muscles and increase power and safety to the joints.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 12:52:15
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Many thanks, Allen....
I've always thought one should just go to failure...wait a few days to heal....then go right back at it....I see I've been going at things in the wrong way...
I'll ask because I have a feeling this might be of general interest...Why is the old plug away to failure approach wrong?
Whatever the case, much appreciated...I'll let you know how I do...
A. |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 18:20:56
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Hey Art,
The reasons to avoid training to failure include mental, neuro, and physical.
I used to train the same way you did, to muscle failure & beyond, but almost always it led to overtraining & burn-out, and dreading of my next workout because I knew what a death-march awaited me. I started coming up with any old excuse to miss a workout. I was doing literally 600 pushups, 600 sit-ups, and 700 jumping jacks in a little over an hour, or similarly intense workouts, about 5 days per week. That's the mental reason.
Neurologically, your central nervous system adapts to your training, such that whatever you practice, that's what you get good at. If you're working to failure, most people including me, start to use poor form to get those last final reps. So, you end up practicing poor form at the most intense part of your workout. Eventually, most of your reps will begin to look like those last few bad reps. Potential for injury aside, poor technique doesn't increase strength as well as perfect reps. Think of bouncing a barbell off your chest when benching, as opposed to maintaining stict form thru-out the set. I have found this to be the case in my own training lots of times.
Neurologically, let's say there's a weight you can military press 10 times maximum. If you always work to muscle failure, your last rep (the one you will remember when you reflect on your workout later on) will feel like a ton of bricks. However, if you stop the set at around 7-8 reps, the weight will be intense enough to increase your stength, yet you will remember it as "somewhat light" because you weren't straining your guts out to lift it. Same way with push ups, instead of managing the weight (your body), you manage the reps. You'll notice that the 2 schemes I sent earlier tend to keep you in that 40-80% of max rep range. Again, my own training often bears this out, even though I cut my physical training "teeth" on hard-core "train till you drop and then do forced reps" mentality.
Plus, when you train to failure, you are programming your CNS to "accept failing". The next time a rep feels really hard, you're more likely to bail than to fight for it.
Finally, on the physical side (and I hesitate to mention this almost), you have your prime-mover muscles (example-shoulders have anterior, lateral, & posterior deltoids) and stabilizer muscles (rotator cuff muscles). The stabilizer muscles are smaller and tend to fatigue sooner than the prime movers. So, when you train to utter fatigue of your prime movers, your stabilizers checked out about 15 minutes before that. I understand about what injuries are, and what TMS is, but God gave us stabilizer muscles for a reason, and when you work a joint without their support, you're asking for trouble.
Many of us "old school" atheletes came up in the football or military side of things where you were pounded with training to failure as part of your mental toughening or discipline. That's fine for that purpose, but it won't make you stronger long term. Plus, it's easier for the drill instructors & coaches to keep count of. As we get older and our bodies require more recovery time, training to failure REALLY doesn't work, because by the time you're adequately recovered for your next workout, you've lost half the benefit from your previous w/o. Better to spread the work thru-out the day, and even thru-out the week. That's what these programs serve as a guide to do. There's nothing really magical about the percentages.
Well, I better run. I'm typing "to failure" and forcing you to read "to failure" probably. Again, I can't take credit for any of the above, but I can sure vouch that it works for me.
Again, any questions, let me know. I love this stuff and helping folks.
Best,
Allen
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 23:27:58
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I picked up this same message from my books about training for distance cycling. You push yourself a little at a time, your body responds by building up. You push yourself too hard, and your body spends all its time recovering. They recommend increasing mileage/time at 10% per week until you get a base level of fitness (about 45-50 miles per week, which is not far off from what I do, and I'm in good shape but not great). Then you start a serious program, and in 10 weeks you can ride a century, but you never actually ride a century in the lead-up (the max daily mileage you ride is actually much lower, 65!). It's very interesting stuff.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 04/05/2007 23:30:15 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2007 : 23:36:56
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Hey Allen,
I have been looking all over for that dvd on neck exercises you sent me a year ago...I was in such bad shape then that I don't know where i put it..Do you still have it and would it be too much to ask you to burn me another copy? I am still working on regaining range of motion, especially looking up...Or...you could tell me here, if that is easier, what are the main exercises..Hope you have a wonderful Easter..I am fasting tomorrow for Good Friday and going to the Stations of the Cross Mass..
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2007 : 06:17:50
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Hey Karen, I'll take a look & see where I put the master. I still have it, just can't place it right now. Once I get it, it's no problem to make one. In the mean time, I'll try to remember the drills. What areas are you trying to work? Neck, and what else?
Hey Armchairlinguist, You have it exactly right! Although it looks like your sport focus is more endurance related (long distance biking), the basics are comparable. Avoiding frequent overload is essential(once in awhile for testing your capability, or for a competition, is A-OK).
You do need to find your "base" and gradually build up from there. 10% per week is about right in the early stages because your body is "learning" and will make rapid improvement for awhile. But, the gains come harder later on. For example, someone who never does pushups may be able to do 5-10 max the first time they test. They get on a program and over the next 3 months, that person could definitely work up to 25-30 pushups, a 200-300% improvement. But, a lot of that is mastering the techniques, adaptation, and novelty. The next 3 months, that same person would be doing incredibly well to add another 20 reps to the 30 they reached in the 1st 3 months. Once they do get to 50, it takes even more work to improve that.
Same with biking, running, weight lifting, heck, even losing weight. Keeping your avg daily mileage at 65 sounds right, as it is in the 60-80% intensity (of your goal of 100 miles). It's also important to vary the loading (some days 80 miles, some days 35, etc). I have a good acquaintance who coined a great phrase, "Meander toward greatness". Really takes the self-imposed mental pressure off hard-headed iron junkies like me. ; ]
-A- |
Edited by - allen_non on 04/06/2007 06:20:16 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2007 : 08:01:38
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Thanx Allen, that would be great!
I am working on increasing the range of motion (flexibility) and strength in my neck muscles..It was limited for so long and the fear of further injury caused me to baby it..I cannot look up even to completely finish a glass of water..I was thinking about trying exercises against the wall with a beach ball for strengthening..I am always moving it to get it more limber,but I cannot force it past where it won't go..TT made me feel better when I spoke about fear of atrophy by telling me that if the muscles were atrophied they wouldn't be able to hold my neck up..Alot of it is mind and I don't want to view myself as disabled in any way..
I am also working on my quadricep and hamstring of my right leg..I had 3 real injuries to my right knee..They all healed but it took a long time..Now because the muscles are not the same in the right leg as the left, I feel I am at risk for another injury if I try to, for example, play tennis..I love tennis and miss it terribly..I was working out 5 days a week b4 i left to spend 4 months in NYC..My awesome gym is here so i stopped working out for 4 months..When i returned there was so much emotional 'stuff' going on, still is..that I didn't start up again at the gym til last week..So I am quite behind..I keep telling myself that no matter how long these muscles have been smaller/weaker I can re-build them..I used to power walk and love it..Now I can only walk at a moderate pace or the knee will start hurting..I don't know if that is TMS pain or because the quads and hamstring on that leg are weak...
Thanx for listening and hope you have a wonderful Easter!
~Karen |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2007 : 12:03:38
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Actually the 65 is the maximum daily mileage -- that's why I found it so interesting. I think the average is about 40.
And yes, improvement is much easier to begin with. Our bodies are very capable of being reasonably fit, and quickly, but to be a true athlete is a challenge.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Art, what are your pushup goals?
