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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2007 : 15:38:58
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Hi everyone,
After talking to my son last night I decided to come on this board for advice.
My son is a Sarno success story , he has been able to stay pain free for the last two years by applying Sarno's methods, to this day he still journals and is able to talk his pain away whenever he feels a twinge. He had pain in his wrists , knees, legs and groin all through university prior to reading Sarno, he saw chiropractors, specialists, etc,.The only thing he has not benn able to control is his acne problem, at one time he did two courses of accutane,was on antibiotics,went on special diets etc, he is now trying to gain control without meds as he thinks it could be tms, the problem he says is that he is not one hundred percent convinced, also once the pimple erupts he cannot will it away as he does his pain ,there is a healing period that comes into play .
I would appreciate advice from anyone who has had success with acne,
Miche |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 18:00:44
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From my understanding from what Dr. Sarno teaches, as long as he is not 100% convinced he will not recover. Once he gets past that hurdle the work he did to rid himself of pain is the same work he will have to do to rid himself of his acne. I also recommend he purchase Dr. Sarno's new book "The Divided Mind" and read it from cover to cover twice.
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Sarno-ize it!
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2007 : 20:43:38
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| Thank's Shawn, Keith has read '' The Divided Mind " more than once, hence his success with the pain, however as you state , he will have to BELIEVE his acne problem is tms related before he can gain any control over it |
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kevin t
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 02:53:11
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Hello Miche,
I wanted to add my two cents about acne since I saw your post. I had severe Cystic Acne as a teenager. My father had it also and he had permanent scaring from it, luckily I have no scaring at all. I did the Accutane, topical gels, anti biotics, you name it. Of course this was in the 80's when Acne treatments were still new. For my though, it just went away with time. I still get some stuff on my back and neck, but my skin is basically a miracle now and at 32 I have not one wrinkle(that oily skin helped).
I know that Sarno thinks that Acne may be a form of TMS, but Im only HALF convinced of that one. I'm pretty sure there is a mental component to it, don't get me wrong, but there are things that aid the aesthetic part of it while you figure the mental part out.
I found that many Acne treatments compound the problem of the skins natural balance and aggravate the skin more. Things like Accutane and antibiotics can be VERY harmful too. I had success with some but in the end, the best product I found that really worked was a simple product called "Proactive Solution". This stuff even treats cystic Acne like a miracle. When I had acne problems I used this stuff , and my skin looked better than most people I knew, it was amazing. Its worth a shot, and there are no pills involved.
Im only telling you this because I myself dont think someone should have to suffer with the very physical and "in your face" nature of Acne, while working on their emotional issues. Sarno is NOT a dermatologist remember. As far as Orthopedics and Back pain go, he is "qualified", but Acne is another story. He might be totally right too, but sometimes the stigma of Acne itself can make someone feel "RAGE". Just getting it to go away can be the miracle one needs. Of course its not going to hell the mental, but its a start.
Kev |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 06:08:56
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| I don't believe that acne is always tms, or even usually tms...Just my contrarian 2 cents. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 09:09:52
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From page 27 Dr. J.E. Sarno's THE DIVIDED MIND:
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"Disorders Attibuted to Activity of the Immune-Peptide System"
*A large number of skin problems (e.g., eczema, hives angioedema, acne, psoriasis)"
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For more info see:
dermatologic mindbody syndromes, 33,34,138
skin, skin disorders, 4, 27, 85, 120 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 10:20:02
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Thanks Tom. This confirms once again in my mind that almost 99% of the questions posted on this board have already been answered in Dr. Sarno's books, but that many people are not taking the necessary time to read them.
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Sarno-ize it!
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 11:07:55
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Thanks Tom. This confirms once again in my mind that almost 99% of the questions posted on this board have already been answered in Dr. Sarno's books, but that many people are not taking the necessary time to read them.
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Sarno-ize it!
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Total agreement Shawn. It's another trick that the Gremlin plays on us. Steering us away from the "knowlege penicilin". I experienced it myself reading the Good Doctor's earlier books. In careful re-readiing, I found I had glossed-over the TMS info that applied most directly to me. A TMS rookie-mistake.
Regards,
tt |
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cheeryquery
Canada
56 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 14:13:33
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Another 2 cents (WARNING: I am not suggesting you believe this, because I wouldn't have. Nevertheless, it happened to me).
Some years ago, I developed a big (quarter size) plantar wart (plantar means on the bottom of the foot). It was deep, with a solid white core and over time (several weeks) became extremely painful.
One night, I was absolutely desperate, crying, praying, the whole emotional meltdown. Finally, my husband said "Let's try Vitamin E" and for some reason I thought, "Yes, that's the answer."
So I put Vit E on the wart several times over the next few hours. I felt better immediately (at least I was doing something about the problem) and the pain was all but gone within a couple of hours. I went to bed and woke up in the morning with NO WART. Not kidding. No damn wart. I mean this sucker was an inch or more into my foot and it was GONE. Physically impossible, as far as I know.
So, as far as I'm concerned, whatever it is there is a good possibility it is mind-related. The mind is tricky, though, and I doubt if people are ever totally convinced of anything at a mind level. The mind will always have a counter argument.
I think the conviction has to be at a deeper, subconscious level. And your subconscious has to be willing, I think.
I know for myself that although I have had incredible success with Sarno's ideas, there are things that return and things that are, so far, immoveable. So be it. Nothing for it but to keep on keeping on. |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 14:38:54
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I want to thank everyone for their input, all worth considering, however I have a question for Kevin, like you Keith had cystic acne, his first year in high school brought them to his face and scalp, he has been on proactive for the last four years and it has helped him a lot, he will be twenty seven in May, when did you stop having complete resolution of your acne, you say you are thirty two now.
He is extremely smart and at one time his wrist were so bAd , he could not type his school work , he is now a massage therapist, which only proves how efficiently he was able to apply Sarno's method .
Cheeryqueenie, I never knew of anyone who got rid of planter's warts overnight however my oldest had a major problem at one time and no amount of prescription medication made a dent on them, I read about vitamin e for this problem in Prevention magazine back then, it took a couple of weeks but it worked, also had a friend who tried it after her doctor recommended surgery for her plantar's warts, it worked for her also. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 15:04:43
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
From page 27 Dr. J.E. Sarno's THE DIVIDED MIND:
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"Disorders Attibuted to Activity of the Immune-Peptide System"
*A large number of skin problems (e.g., eczema, hives angioedema, acne, psoriasis)"
***
For more info see:
dermatologic mindbody syndromes, 33,34,138
skin, skin disorders, 4, 27, 85, 120
Sometimes I get the feeling you're quoting the bible or something, with all the usual fundamentalist fervor one would expect from someone who believes many of the country's ills are directly traceable to too much marijuana smoking...
Here's a fellow (miche's son) who's had success in all other areas, yet when bringing the same tms model to bear on his acne, it's no go..Are skin problems often psychosomatic in origin? Sure. Are they always? Not even close.
The Divided Mind is a good and useful book. It's not a vessel of all the world's accumulated wisdom however.
Miche (how are you by the way? we haven't spoken in a long while!!),
I've always been queasy with the supposed requirement that one must accept/believe/have faith in TMS with all the conviction at one's command if he or she is going to get better. I've had lots of good results and I'm pretty skeptical about just about evrything, including tms...Many others have as well...
The reason I think this is especially important is that the perceived need for a 100 percent belief can trap a person into a modality that sometimes just isn't ever going to work.... |
Edited by - art on 02/25/2007 15:11:05 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 18:55:13
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Art I have NO idea what you are talking about and I'm not going to spend too much time figuring it out. I go to the trouble of researching something (not saying a word in the post) and your back on your anti-Tom kick. Miche asked for advice about acne and I merely cited from Dr. Sarno which this forum is about if you didn't notice.
Art you even attack me when I don't say anything. It's pretty hilarious. I DO think many of this country's problems are due to pot and other substance abuse. I didn't bring it up but since you did thanks for the platform. I include alcoholism in there with substance abuse.
Sorry you don't believe in anything Art. I rest assured if I were an attractive lady posting here and said the same things I say, you would be happy to agree with me. You started it. 
If you want to drag this out take it over to the Full Moon thread that I started for such purposes. H20 and I will take you, World and Alexis on two on one. Let's not embarrass ourselves here in full public view.
Regards,
tt
the board's fundamentlaist, idiot, imbecile |
Edited by - tennis tom on 02/25/2007 19:02:20 |
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chrisb89
42 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 19:35:31
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| I've only known about TMS for a couple days now and hope it is a cure for my back and neck pain. I will say though that I am very skeptical about some of the claims Sarno makes, for instance with regards to allergies. Certain people have an allergy that will kill them if they eat peanuts - is this their mind's doing to distract them from repressed feelings? |
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ndb
209 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2007 : 20:19:46
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chrisb89,
I've wondered about the same thing. I think we don't fully know yet all the ways in which our bodies work. I can only say that I (and I think others) on the board have overcome allergies through TMS work -- in my case, I no longer have asthma symptoms triggered by allergies. I also personally know people whose food allergies consume their thoughts, and it seems to me to have a psychological component.
ndb |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 06:16:25
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quote:
DO think many of this country's problems are due to pot and other substance abuse. I didn't bring it up but since you did thanks for the platform. I include alcoholism in there with substance abuse.
Sorry you don't believe in anything Art. I rest assured if I were an attractive lady posting here and said the same things I say, you would be happy to agree with me. You started it.
I was kind of following you til that last statement. All I can say is, huh?
I once told you (to borrow from a better mind than mine), that beliefs are like scarecrows anxious people use to frighten away reality. Here's something I do believe, that you can measure a person's general level of fear in the world by taking note of the number of his fixed beliefs, that is beliefs and ideas that are not subject to change, no matter how strong the evidence to the contrary...
Think about it.
Incidentally, not that it will do a bit of good in shaking loose another of your fixed ideas, far and away, the greater damage to our country is not caused by drug use, but by the laws against that use...The so-called "war on drugs" has cost this country billions of dollars, increased crime, from organized all the way to petty street crimes, and has cost our nation hundreds of thousands of lives, especially when you count users who are languishing in prison for nothing more than exercising their God given rights. |
Edited by - art on 02/26/2007 07:31:56 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 08:48:29
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Sarno mentions that there is a difference between adult-onset allergies and skin irritations and ones that a person has always had. I don't think severe acne necessarily falls into the adult-onset category since it's pegged to start in the teens, not in childhood, and that's it's normal time of onset. I would be really reluctant to try to claim to friends who've had eczema and psoriasis since they were infants that it was TMS. It's not impossible but I wouldn't make the claim myself.
I do agree with Sarno about adult-onset allergies and problems, but sometimes they may be difficult to work with directly in the way that one can work with pain, due to their wide systemic consequences and potentially life-threatening nature. But the more benign ones like patchy eczema and dandruff, you can definitely work with. Dandruff was the last TMS symptom to resolve for me, and it took a while, but it's gone now.
Miche, to directly address your question, maybe the key for your son is not to be too emotionally entangled with the acne. I can easily see how it would be frustrating and enraging to have that problem. Maybe giving it more attention than necessary is counterproductive, in this case. Even if it isn't TMS any major investment in its behavior could aggravate it as if it were.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 10:08:04
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Thanks for the platform again Art. "FEAR"? So you sense some fear in me, maybe even a touch of paranoia. How perceptive of you Art. I don't know where you live Art, but since you can specultate on me, I'll speculate a little on you. I imagine you living behind the gates of retirement community in the sun-belt, with a guard checking everyone in and out. Maybe you break-out on ocassion and make a quick run to the Starbuck's.
I have lived in frisco since 1957 and had a business around the corner from a public housing project (that means the socialist government of s.f., in partnership with HUD owns, and manages it. You speak of petty street crimes. How do you define them? Does that include knocking down a 92 year old tourist lady to grab her purse breaking her hip so she'll never walk again. Murdering a good Samaritan art student, coming to the defense of a lady who's groceries were being stolen by a petty street thug. Stabbing a dozen tourists randomly while alcoholed, cracked and potted up. Throwing your boyfriend's rifle out the project's window when it's time for him to move out, homeless camping out on double mattrasses in tents on the sidewalk, urineating and defecating where-ever they please and me having to hose down their mess everyday, (the police saying there's nothing they can do because the politicians call that behavior freedom of speech and their hands are tied, they get released before the ink on the police reports are dry), constant vandalism and theft of everything that is not nailed down. Is that the kind of petty street crime you're referring to Art? Or breaking into a dozen cars at a time to fish under the seats for quarters. I bet if the petty street crime happens to you, you don't view it as petty a street crime.
The way frisco has manipulated the crime stats recently was to reduce auto-buglary to a misdeameanor from a felony. Overnight our crime stats were balanced. And that clever manipulaton of the crime stats was performed by a mayor who had been the chief of police prior. A big cheer was heard in juvy hall when that came down, the little innocent darlings.
Two paroled murderers, released from San Quentin for good behavior were elected president and vice president of one of our gov housing projects--but as you infer Art I'm sure they are clean now, never use, sell or operate a drug cartel out of the public housing I pay for with my taxes. The average amount of time spent in prison for murder is 7 years--not only is life good it's also CHEAP.
Running this whole show, we have our alcoholic fillandering mayor who has made the cover of that liberal weekly Time or was it Newsweek (doesn't make much diff, their editors are tools of the Demo Party). At least he's honest on national TV he admitted everything you heard about me is TRUE. He is seen plying 18 year olds with liquor in public, doing his campaign manager's wife and having her on the taxpayer's payroll, (taxpayer, that's me getting to pay for the Burton Machine's party, but never invited to attend). But you see those things are viewed as petty shennanigans in this town and no one will ask for his scalp around here, lucky he's not a Repub, an extinct species here.
As far as all those poor innocents languishing in Texas prisons for a roach. URBAN MYTH ART! Today if you get busted, even in Kansas, for personal possession, all you get is a ticket to appear. I've spent some time in criminal court and witnessed drug dealers with a half a k of coke, stoned in front of the judge, barely able to stand up, sentenced to a program and told to come back in six months and "tell us how you liked it". That same judge was investigated for corruption, but nothing happened.
Way back in the 60's, I used to even sell the stuff and on occasion take a puff or two (for quality control). I've never met a regular user of herb who was better off for it. You can usually spot one because they keep telling the same story over and over again.
As for pot's medicinal uses medical myth propogated by the drug cartels that grow and sell the stuff. They recently busted an Asian drug cartel that purchased a dozen, million dollar houses, in one of our fashionable suburbs to cultivate pot. They gut the houses out, install gro-lites and cultivate millions in pot to supply their pot shops, that are legal in frisco neithborhoods.
Google Marijuana for the the most recent reputable canabis studies and you will see that NO positive medicinal uses were found for it. You won't see those results on the cover of Time or Newsweek though, might offend the readership. Many of our public forests are off limits to the public that owns them due to cartels having taken them over to cultivate pot, (CA's biggest cash crop). They are booby-trapped and illegal Mexicans are used for cheap labor.
Fear and paranoia Art? You're damn right! Everytime I walk out the door. It's served me well--as well as my running abilities. I've had to work in some of the most crime infested ghettos in sf. In the demo party's spitit of "community crime sharing", that's about in every part of sf now.
Those drug dealers hanging out on the corner, aren't there to help the little old ladies cross the street. I've seen and experienced a lot here growing up and doing business in frisco and my parnoia has served me well to stay alive.
Thanks for the paltform once again, for my hallucinatory, fearful, paranoid views. It would be good if we had a "Post Moved" button at this point to move it to the "Full Moon" thread. How's your golf game Art? |
Edited by - tennis tom on 02/26/2007 21:48:44 |
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kevin t
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 10:44:40
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Miche,
Hello and nice to meet you. I just returned to answer your question and I see that many have offered their opinions, all valid and understandable. Please understand that my opinion is just that and can only speak from experience with cystic acne.
As far as when my acne went away I can honestly say that most problems went away with just time. By the time I was 20 it just disappeared. New distractions came into my life and around that time was when my "O.C.D." came into the picture I didnt even think about acne anymore. It also seemed that the less I cared about acne, the more it went away. Maybe because mentally it didnt get my attention anymore, or maybe because I wasnt aggravating it by constantly washing it, applying ointments, and all the other jazz that one does. I just simply forgot about it, and after a while it wasnt an issue.
Hope this helps. |
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westcoastram
97 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 17:28:04
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For what it's worth,
I got rid of acne (for the most part) when I got rid of my pain. I had acne into my late twenties and interestingly enough, it got better as my pain got worse.
When I started to get over my pain, I had some major breakouts and I Sarno-ized them. It's funny, I used to have really sensitive skin too, I used to breakout with any type of hair product and now it doesn't matter.
I've had so-so acne followed by cystic acne and back and forth, I know realize that the times I got cystic acne mirrored times of repressed stress.
So, in my case, it worked.
Disclaimer: Now, I still get the occasional pimple but it's not that bad and I know what it is so it seems to go away pretty quickly. Oftentimes I'll have a pimple disappear in a day or two when it would take a week or longer when I was on acne meds. |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2007 : 19:26:26
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THANK YOU ALL FOR TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER , LOTS OF GOOD INSIGHTS, I AM FORWARDING YOUR ANSWERS TO MY SON,AND WISH TO THANK YOU ALSO ON HIS BEHALF |
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MY SON
