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Victoria008
USA
26 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2007 : 13:36:40
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Wow, what a lot of great advice! This is very helpful. I really related to not wanting to tell the Dr all symptoms cuz there were so many. I do exactly that! I have been going about once a month (and this is without insurance, a community health center) and each time I bring up something different! I feel so foolish! I go there and wonder, what symptom will I have this time and should I bring it up!! Fear, fear, fear. Seems to be such a common thread, it has certainly played a huge part in my life.
I wanted to mention an interesting part to my story: Three years ago when this all started I was breaking up with my fiance of 9 years. He had spent the previous 3 years with an unexplained "illness" that the Drs could not diagnose and left him with terrible pain. I could not understand what he was going through and although I tried to be supportive it hurt our relationship as he spent most of his time in bed and became addicted to heavy pain pills. As we were breaking up he said it was because I could not deal with what he was going through, that I did not believe in his pain. Many of my friends thought it was an excuse to take pills and withdraw from life. A couple of times he told me "Mark my words, you will know what this feels like" He left in June and don't you know by November 2004, I was afraid to stand in the voting line! Coincidence? Hmmmm.
Victoria |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2007 : 18:06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Victoria008
A couple of times he told me "Mark my words, you will know what this feels like" He left in June and don't you know by November 2004, I was afraid to stand in the voting line! Coincidence? Hmmmm.
Victoria
Possibly an excellent example of the power of suggestion on the unconscious mind. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2007 : 13:17:18
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quote:
Originally posted by alexis
I have never believed 100% and neither have quite a lot of the people here. We don't have a scientific analysis comparing success rates to percent beleif, but it is certainly possible to recover without 100% belief, and moreso without 100% belief at the outset. I'm going to guess you might want to target something over 50%, though, and the amount of belief needed will be different for different people.
This is quite right...I don't believe in anything 100 percent, much less an unproven theory that posits all sort of unseen and unseeable processes....
I'd say my faith in TMS has never been higher than around 50 percent, and yet I've had very good success.. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 13:58:10
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quote:
Originally posted by art
[quote]Originally posted by alexis
I'd say my faith in TMS has never been higher than around 50 percent, and yet I've had very good success..
That above statement is riddled with contradictions.
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Sarno-ize it!
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2007 : 19:19:52
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
quote:
Originally posted by art
[quote]Originally posted by alexis
I'd say my faith in TMS has never been higher than around 50 percent, and yet I've had very good success..
That above statement is riddled with contradictions.
Hi Shawn, could you edit your comment above so it is clear which of us made the statement you are referring to? The way it is quoted it actually looks as though I made the 50% statement when it was actually Art. I have, in fact, believed over half of Sarno's theories (depending on how you calculate it) with a belief level up around 80-90% (varies depending on the particular part of the theories) -- although I have no objections whatsoever to Art's level of belief and his success. If it works at 50% for him, that's great and I wish him well.
Sorry to nit-pick...I just would like who said what and what you are objecting to to be clear if you folks are going to hash this all out again. |
Edited by - alexis on 03/03/2007 19:26:13 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 09:20:28
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When it comes to treating TMS, it is important to accept that the symptoms are psychogenic.
As for "belief" and "faith" -- everyone seems to have their own definitions of those words, so I don't like to use them, especially since for some people they take on a religious or spiritual meaning.
You do not have to "believe" in the details of Dr. Sarno's theory. He is postulating theories as to the inner workings of TMS based on extensive clinical experience. But those details are mostly irrelevant.
Is it really oxygen deprivation? Reduced blood flow? Or maybe something far more complicated that we cannot yet comprehend?
Is it really our "unconscious" mind producing the symptoms? This is really just a metaphor. We don't really have two minds.
These explanations serve to "prove" TMS to our rational, intellectual and analytical selves. Most people (especially those with advanced medical training) will not accept that there are some things we just don't understand fully. Dr. Sarno's theory would be far less effective if he said "TMS symptoms are psychogenic but we really have no idea how or why."
But the fact is, if you are willing to accept that last statement, it is good enough. How TMS works is irrelevant. Why symptoms occur is critical. We simply must accept that the pain is psychogenic, caused by inner emotional conflicts of which we are consciously unaware. The primitive part of our brain is trying to protect us from feeling "dangerous" emotions.
Our bodies often produce symptoms as a protective, yet unnecessary action. TMS is just another example of that. But because it cannot be proven in a lab or explained by a rational well-understood process, many are unwilling to accept it. Dr. Sarno's theory paints a picture that makes TMS easier to understand, even if there are holes or inaccuracies in that theory, which is likely, since it would be arrogant of us to believe that we truly know exactly what goes on inside our bodies. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2007 : 09:53:36
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Very nicely put Dave. I agree with everything you say -- except maybe small parts of the second to last paragraph. And even there the details are unimportant.
Yes, a more detailed story is good for some people, and we should all pick and choose what parts are important for us to get it to work. I think everyone excepts incomplete stories all the time, and without them the human species would not function. That's why outside of a research context I see no need to hash out too often the details of various holes or inaccuracies some may feel exist in any part of the theories.
"Belief" is a fuzzy word, but I'm not sure that you get away from the problem by using "accept". I think we just have to "accept" that our "belief" relationships to Sarno's theories may differ, and that varying approaches are working for different people. Those who relate to the postings of one recovered person can read those postings, and those who relate to another can read those. That's what I did in using this board as an aid to my recovery. |
Edited by - alexis on 03/04/2007 09:55:18 |
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3 years of pain and fear
