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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2007 : 10:23:34
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Hi all,
A month ago I did some (supposedly) gentle walking exercises which were intended to help the mind/body with "healthy" walking.
I don't want to go into details on what this was, etc. It's not important. Suffice to say, the movement involved walking while alternating bending one knee, straightening the other, to simulate more "natural" walking. It was like pivoting the knee in a new way. Didn't hurt whilest I was doing it. I did this movement for like 10 mins. and the next day my left inner knee was really painful. For a month I've been taking a wait and see approach because it's not intolerable and this morning I saw an Orthopedist who said my xrays were fine, but she diagnosed me with inflammation under the knee cap, probably from the pivoting motion I put my knees into when I was doing that new walking exercise/movement. She wants me to go to a PT for this. I have been struggling in my mind with this wondering if it's a new form of TMS kicking in, trying to rear its ugly head.
I can run with the knee and can do all activities, it just hurts when I pivot the knee a certain way or say if I cross my legs and the knee is up over the other for a while, or say if I'm sitting watching tv and I have my leg a bit askew. All I'm asking is, does this sound like TMS to you or does it sound like I really did cause a problem in that knee? Thanks everyone. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2007 : 00:35:22
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Hi there,
I don't know anything about knee problems, but I'm just wondering if the doctor diagnosed inflammation under the knee cap based on your description of the symptoms and your previous activity or based on something in the exam.
Do you feel like there's a psychological reason for the TMS to try to flare up (not that you should have to share the reason, if there is one), or is it more like this is just a potential opportunity for it to do that? |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2007 : 03:00:21
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| The orthopedist said based on my exam she could tell there was inflammation there under and around the knee cap. She said the xrays were fine, but she thinks some motrin and PT would help the inflammation subside. I am not sure if it's something emotional or not because I can't come up with anything but of course having "been there done that" with the whole TMS back/neck/wrist/buttock stuff I've been through, I never stop at just a structural diagnosis. I always question, could this be TMS in a new spot? |
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weatherman
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 09:12:59
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MaryAlma (is that your name?)
Were you by any chance diagnosed with chondromalacia patella? I was diagnosed with it 28 years ago, and thought my active life was over. Now I'm 50 and the knees don't bother me at all, even walking up and down mountains.
From what you describe, I would bet the farm it's TMS, particularly when you say it doesn't hurt until the next day. (I'm assuming they've ruled out an ACL tear, major cartilage tear etc.). Sarno mentions chondromalacia as TMS in several books, and I think he's right on. It sounds like they can't find a good reason for the pain, so are throwing out the catch-all word "inflammation." My only hesitation would be if you push it and get major swelling, etc.
Weatherman
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 09:30:24
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Weatherman,
1st answer, yes my name is Mary.
Thanks for the reply.
The actual diagnosis is "left patella femural disease" (inflammation).
As I said it did not hurt when I was doing the motion, it hurt the next day and hasn't let up. But I can run, etc. on it.
Only some awkward torquing movements bother it. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 10:07:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
Weatherman,
1st answer, yes my name is Mary.
Thanks for the reply.
The actual diagnosis is "left patella femural disease" (inflammation).
As I said it did not hurt when I was doing the motion, it hurt the next day and hasn't let up. But I can run, etc. on it.
Only some awkward torquing movements bother it.
Hi Mary...I think the question my be academic...If it's TMS it's ultimately going to go away....If it's not, it will likewise go away..Either way, since you're able to do just about everything except those few movements, it doesn't seem all that urgent..
Did you read the NYT's article about how even mainstream orthopods are now often prescribing continued activity rather than rest for injuries that are not too serious (rips, breaks, tears etc)? Turns out things heal better when under moderate stress
If it were I, I'd just continue to do my usual activities and not worry about it too much..See what happens..I'd also try to resist the urge to "test" it, by continually moving your leg to see if if still hurts, or how much it hurts etc....
It will go away...promise...
Seems to me that more important than whether its TMS or not, is whether you're going to start obsessing about it....Not saying you're doing that, just raising the possibility,,,
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 11:26:06
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Art,
I totally see where you're coming from.
The good thing is I am not paying all that much mind to it.
I can't be sure either way what it is but it's not that concerning to me. I think the docs love to prescribe PT when they don't quite know what to say about things. |
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 19:41:31
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Hello Mary
I injured my right knee skiing in January, 2006.
The pain mostly subsided after about a month or so, but I would get a sharp but momentary pain when I pivoted. No pain at all until I pivoted or until I lifted my leg from the gas pedal to the brake while driving. A sharp momentary pain.
This went on for several months. In June I finally decided to have an x-ray. My doctor said that there was no indication of damage and, as a matter of fact, I had an “excellent knee.” It was only then that I thought that it might be TMS pain.
I deliberately twisted my knee to induce the pain and the pain got less and less and then disappeared after a few days. It never came back. I have no pain when I drive now.
The bothersome part of your story is the inflammation. A positive sedimentation rate in a blood test indicates inflammation. Mine were all negative when I had the spinal stenosis problem and yet part of my treatment was to take stuff to reduce inflammation. I don’t see how it can be TMS pain if there is inflammation. Can a doctor be sure without a blood test?
I would give it six weeks for the body to recover. If it is still painful, there is a good possibility that it is TMS pain.
Allan
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 20:32:36
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quote:
I don’t see how it can be TMS pain if there is inflammation.
Isn't inflammation primarily an action of the immune system? The immune system is certainly implicated in TMS.
I think the advice already given for the knee is good, but I wanted to respond to/ask about this point that Allan made. My understanding of inflammation is that even at injury sites, it's done by the immune system, and that the immune system can be involved in TMS (see: allergies, colds, sore throats, etc.).
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2007 : 06:09:45
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Allan,
The orthopedic doc said she could tell there was inflammation upon exam, feeling the knee compared to the other one. The xrays, as armchair said were "excellent". No issues on the films at all.
She based her finding on how the knee moved and felt compared to the other. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2007 : 17:44:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
Art,
I totally see where you're coming from.
The good thing is I am not paying all that much mind to it.
I can't be sure either way what it is but it's not that concerning to me. I think the docs love to prescribe PT when they don't quite know what to say about things.
I think not paying much attention to it is just the way to go...That PT crappola is a whole dog and pony show designed to separate the patient from her money...Nature is the best healer...
I used to zero in on every little thing, but these days I've come to think that if you're active and over forty, there's almost always at least a little something going on..I've got a shoulder injury that really causes a lot of pain in certain positions and in the past I'd have seen three doctors and undergone at least 2 courses of PT by now..But like you with your knee, I'm able to do just about evrything I want to do...So I work around it....It's been months, but at last it's beginning to heal...The human body is remarkably resilient if we only give it a chance |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2007 : 00:41:44
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Maryalma8,
As Art wrote, TMS or not, it will go away. Even if you did irritate it with your new "gentle walking exercise" (prob due to using muscles in ways you are not used to), it will eventually subside. I have no knee problems, but have often strained something in or around the knees and had pain that sometimes lasted several weeks and departed.
As for the doc saying you had inflammation and recommmending PT, well, that means little if anything. When you go to a doc they know they have to offer you something, even a placebo. Dx-ing inflammation is a safe bet as well as PT. Most patients will feel satisfied that they were taken seriously and the doc can rest easy knowing the PT won't do any harm, and in any case, time will heal. When it it does, you may well believe the PT had something to do with it. Everybody wins. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2007 : 13:51:15
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It's really sick, how often one can "legitimately" seek out medical help when it's just not needed...IN the last three months alone, I've had perhaps half a dozen bouts with varying levels of tendonitis spread out around this middle-aged body of mine...
In every case, things got better on their own...But a person going the usual doctor/pt route with the same symptoms would swear he got better because he had the "wisdom" to seek out a doctor...
It's just incredible the waste that goes on in this country...No wonder our insurance premiums are so high |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2007 : 19:26:24
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| I am reading a book from the library on Reiki, a Japanese healing method. The knees are a storehouse of anger and other repressed emotions, in this system. |
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Special One
USA
61 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2007 : 21:42:20
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What does that book say about things we store in the neck?
Special One |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 04:03:05
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Thanks everyone for your sensible replies. You're all correct, we all get middle age type tendinitis from time to time. Docs love to send you away with PT when they can't think of what else to say.
I appreciate all your helpful posts.
Hope everyone is staying warm. Art, I know you are! We're freezing up here in Beantown.
Mary |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 05:11:01
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| This is humorous... I just opened a letter from my HMO confirming my PT approval and the diagnosis says chondromalacia patella... Orthopedist called it inflammation but now I am chuckling because Weatherman, you asked if it was that DX and at the time it had not been. Now it is in the letter. Funny... I will not be rushing to PT... Too stupid, the whole thing. |
Edited by - marytabby on 01/22/2007 06:11:32 |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 06:25:20
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| Special One - it says the neck carries stress and burdens, the jaw is also anger, and the back is self critiscism, negativity and anxiety. The book is called"Reiki-the essential guide to the ancient healing art" by Chris and Penny Parkes. It is a self treatment guide. I don't know anyone who has tried it. |
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 20:54:56
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Sounds like you've got a lot of ammunition from the folks here allready, Mary, but I just wanted to chime in. "left patella femural disease" was my exact diagnosis according to the sports med doc who also treated my reptitive stress injury in my hands. The knee pain always came and went. I even bothered to do some PT about it because I was so scared by being hurt on my arms I couldn't bear the thought of something injured on another body part.
Any knee pain I had vanished after I read Mindbody Perscription. It sounds like you already have an active exercise routine, so more power to that, and good luck taking your mind off of the pain!
art, thanks for sharing about what's new about activity levels. that's awesome and sensible!
carbar |
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Traumaqueen
1 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 18:14:27
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quote:
Originally posted by altherunner
I am reading a book from the library on Reiki, a Japanese healing method. The knees are a storehouse of anger and other repressed emotions, in this system.
this is my first post ever on any forum. i believe that the knees probably are a storehouse of anger and other repressed emotions. this is what caught my eye anyhow. i have a knee that is not happy. originally, 2 years ago it was considered an overuse injury and diagnosed as patella femoral syndrom. one year later it was rediagnosed because it was not getting better and this time patellar femoral was ruled out and the new diagnosis was an mcl sprain. the physiotherapy has not significantly changed anything and now i have swelling recurring and it has been this way now for 2 years.
i have been offered dr. sarno's book to borrow, and my question is, will i find out what it is or am i going to be letting go that there is anything wrong and perhaps finding the psychological component that is the source of all this. i do have an age old trauma but thought that i had processed it. perhaps it is residue or another part of the original trauma? clearly i don't know much about this tms stuff but am willing now to look into it and listen. i see many posting mentioning tms doctors. are there tms doctors in vancouver, canada?
thanks for your time. |
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Kneecap Inflammation - need input
