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PACgirl
2 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2007 : 10:27:22
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| Hi all, I am a newbie to the TMS world and I have had significant success since I read Healing Back Pain and saw a TMS doctor. Just for background, my childhood experiences were quite rough and my current personality is everything Dr. Sarno discusses. I believe I have experienced TMS since adolescent years with severe acne and IBS. Four months ago I experienced severe disabling back pain and was diagnosed with a large "text-book" (for my symptoms) disc herniation, sciatica, sacroiliac dysfunction and pelvic floor dysfunction. I was so bad that I could no longer sit, stnad or walk and at the age of 27 had to go on disability from my desk job and I am normally extremely active and athletic. I had a few treatments that helped get me back to functioning, likely due to placebo but continued to have pain that prevented me from enjoying much activity at all. This led me to Dr. Sarno's book, the physician I saw and this web page. I have experienced significant improvement but still struggle with almost contstant pain after 3 weeks. It is much less severe and I continue to read almost daily and am going to start journaling today after having read about it's benefits. I have two main issues that I am seeeking advice on. One- for anyone out there with constant pain or who has healed from constant pain, what techniques worked best for you? Two- I have been struggling with the idea that I read where you should truly experience the anger guilt, rage, etc and become comfortable with it so that your subconscious will not repress it. In doing so, I am having a hard time not becoming depressed and losing confidence in myself. I also have a hard time having fun between the pain and trying to recognise the emotional pain. I'm intentionally not dwelling on the issues but when I can't seem to both experience the thougts and memories without losing my upbeat and happy outlook. I have had many issues, difficult family life and many other stresses that I have always dealt with and been aware of. I feel like all the "self-help" type things I have done have almost made me more susceptible to TMS and I can't quite figure out the balance. For example, I tend to follow a very mild form of "Dr. Phil" ideas(you can't control life but you can control how you react to it). I feel that life is what you make it, and how you choose to react to life issues helps create your quality of life. By trying to deal with, or in spite of my stresses, is that not partially executed by pushing the thoughts out of the forfront to focus on the things you can control or that do make you happy? Wow, this turned into quite a novel! I would appreciate any ideas or perspective from anyone out there. I'ts so helpful to see others succeed and hear about how!! |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 11:12:11
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Hi PACgirl, I'm afraid I'm only in a position to tackle question #2, and am even a bit wary on that. It seems from what I have read of Sarno and others that it is not necessarily the case that everyone needs to "truly experience the anger guilt, rage, etc and become comfortable with it so that your subconscious will not repress it". Some people seem to recover simply from awareness that the pain has a mental origin, without ever having to address the deeper causes.
But that doesn't seem to work for everyone. And some people seem to have gotten by with a halfway approach. So I'm not sure this is all that helpful -- in so far as I'm saying that any one of a number of different approaches may be best for you. But my instinct is to say that if a level of delving seems to be hurting rather than helping you, I might back off a bit and balance yourself between self-analysis and going out and living life--which is equally important. Many folks here who do journaling, for instance, mention working on this only 15-30 minutes a day and then just going on with life.
I think your posting was quite clear and not too much of a novel at all, although it might help in the reading if you break the posts into more bite sized paragraphs. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2007 : 14:46:42
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Hi PACgirl,
I have had chronic pain, which was labeled fibromyalgia and CFS by the doctors I saw, for the past 19 years. I read Dr. Sarno's Divided Mind book in August and a few weeks later found this forum. I've been helped a great deal by the information shared here.
I am not yet pain free, but I am much, much better than I was before Sarno and the forum. When I have relapses to a worse level of pain, I find that the best thing for me to do to relieve the pain is to go journal a little bit. If I'm not able to do that, for example when I'm not at home, just reflecting on what might be upsetting my unconscious has helped make the pain recede. When I say "reflecting" I don't mean that I'm necessarily trying to feel all of the emotion involved in the upsetting event.
For me, I have found that I don't have to experience all of the emotion, I just have to acknowledge that some part of my mind is angry or hurt by something that's happened, or acknowledge that something has triggered repressed feelings from a previous event. It's the acknowledgment that is important for me. At times it can be hard to acknowledge that some part of my mind, what many refer to as an inner child, is reacting with anger, because on a conscious, mature level I think that anger is not appropriate. Yet the unconscious mind seems to be more self-centered than the conscious, so I have found that "repressing," at least for me, means trying to deny that there is a part of me that doesn't want to be mature and understanding--it just wants to have a constantly peaceful and enjoyable experience at all times and in all situations, even though that's clearly unrealistic. When I write that acknowledgment in my journal, my symptoms improve much more than when I just try to mentally acknowledge the anger and pain of my inner self, although that does help temporarily, like I mentioned, if I'm not able to journal just then. It's like that self-centered part of my mind is given a voice. Of course, I wouldn't share the journal with others. I feel like this is not at odds with the concept of not being able to control life but just controlling how you react to it, because I'm not acting out the immature and selfish feelings. I'm just saying "yes, my gut reaction is this, but I'm not going to dwell on that or act on that, I'm going to just acknowledge it and then let it go."
I initially had a lot of difficulty accepting the concept of an inner child, but eventually decided, from reading comments on the forum, that there is some inner self with a childish perspective. It's become more acceptable to me because I finally realized that what children need from the people around them is acknowledgment, and that is the same thing that the unconscious part of my mind seems to be seeking--to be "seen" and to have it's "feelings" acknowledged even though I don't necessarily act on them. I've found I can have a conversation between the two parts of my mind in the same way that I'd speak with a child who has an angry or upset reaction to something. I'd say to a child, "I understand why you feel this way, it's a natural reaction to have, but I can't allow you to act out these feelings because you haven't taken all the facts into account, you're only seeing the matter from one limited perspective and you need to consider other perspectives too."
Again I don't have to experience all the feelings on a conscious level, I just have to admit that they're there and say it's ok for that part of me to have those feelings even if they're not a reflection of the kind of person I want to be. Previously I was denying that part of myself in order to maintain my self-image. It's interesting that my self-image hasn't really suffered the way I was afraid it would. Before I always had a sense that my self-image was kind of a fake, because I was trying to deny any feelings that didn't fit the image, but now I feel much more confident about who and what I am and realize that having selfish feelings on some level is does not make me a bad or selfish person. I am not trying to change my personality, just acknowledging a part of it that I didn't want to see before.
Best wishes in your efforts to control the TMS.
Corey |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 03:46:02
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I believe it's a two step recovery.
Acknowledging the 'why' relieved most of my biggest complaint, but I've got these symptom imperatives that I cannot tackle. I bet some rage needs to be dug up but no success so far. :(
Anyway, in reply to Littlebird, isn't it sort of true that the 'child' is unavailable for reasoning and that the 'decisionmaker' starts or stops the pain? Sometimes I don't know how to visualise this.
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No Hope = No Fear. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 19:39:10
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Hi Redsandro, I have to agree that the child or unconscious isn't available in the sense of carrying on a two-way discussion, so it was a poor choice to use the word "conversation." But I think I recall Dr. Sarno saying we do influence the unconscious with our conscious mind, and in dealing with children I've seen that when they're upset or angry and acting out, they may not be willing to have a two-way conversation to reason on what they're feeling--it's fairly common for them to just silently pout and even avoid eye contact--but they do take in the reasoning words I say to them and over time may see the point and apply the reasoning. So that is sort of what I picture happening between my "decision-maker" and my "child" areas of the brain.
My concept of what my unconscious mind is doing is developing through different things I've read, including the TMS books--Dr. Sarno's The Divided Mind and the books Pain Free for Life and Freedom from Fibromyalgia--and many non-TMS sources that deal with the mind, as well as some of what I've read here on the forum. I think I mentioned this recently, but I'll kind of repeat it here. I used to not give much thought at all to the unconscious part of my mind, because I figured I could have no real influence on it with my conscious anyway and had no reason to try, as I thought of it as mainly a mechanical thing, controlling breathing, heart beat, etc.
That concept began to change when I read a book by a security specialist who talks about the value of what we call intuition. I read his books, The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift, and felt that his explanations of how the unconscious mind is always processing information about our surroundings that we don't notice on a conscious level explained the "gut" feelings that I often have. I had always wondered just how I developed these feelings, which usually are a sense that something is not quite right in a situation, but often I couldn't really put my finger on just what is causing that sense of something being wrong. Over the years I've found that my gut feelings usually turn out to be correct. The author, Gavin DeBecker, was raised by a single mother who was a heroin addict; she frequently put Gavin and his sister in situations with dangerous people and was also dangerous to them herself at times. He learned to keep himself and his sister out of harm's way by trusting his gut instincts, his intuition. I was intrigued because of my background with a mentally ill mother who abused alcohol. She was certainly not as bad as DeBecker's mother, but I realized that much of my intuition had developed as a result of an unstable childhood. My unconscious mind was always working to analyze my environment, to protect me and other family members from potential harm (I had to stop her from shooting my father a couple of times) or, at times when her wrath was not so fierce, to help me avoid triggering greater anger by being closely attuned to all the little signals that might reveal her mood and thoughts.
DeBecker mentioned a professor of psychology from the University of California Medical School in San Francisco, named Paul Ekman, who has done extensive study of facial expressions. He explains that the unconscious mind displays a person's true emotions by means of fleeting facial expressions, lasting just a fraction of a second, before the conscious mind is able to take control and mask the true feeling with another expression that's intended to convey a different impression to the observer. Our unconscious mind may register the fleeting expression, though we often don't recognize this on a conscious level. That can be part of the information that feeds our intuition about people and situations. His book is called Emotions Revealed. I realized this was why I feel such a strong need to constantly watch a person's face. I have a phobia of using the telephone because I can't see what the person may be really feeling. I'm uncomfortable in groups because I can't study each person's face the entire time. My unconscious mind still feels the need to monitor everything and everybody in it's efforts to protect me. And I see that part of the way my unconscious tries to protect me is by repressing my own true emotions, masking my feelings and showing people only what I think will not upset or irritate anyone, because my unconscious strongly associates having emotions that others might not like with putting myself in real danger.
DeBecker also mentioned Dr. Daniel Goleman, who writes about behavioral and brain sciences, putting the information in terms the layman can grasp and relate to. Dr. Goleman's books, Emotional Intelligence and Social Intelligence, have helped me to visualize how information is relayed between the conscious and unconscious parts of the mind, and the books explain some of what science has learned about how the parts of the brain that make up the unconscious mind experience life and drive emotions. I read Social Intelligence after reading about TMS and found much of the information helpful in gaining insight into the feelings my unconscious is likely trying to repress.
I've also enjoyed books by Dr. Daniel Amen, a neuropsychiatrist who uses brain imaging to see how the brain functions in people with various emotional and mental conditions. His explanations of how the decision-maker part of the brain works, or doesn't work quite right in some people, have helped me to understand what I see in my husband and some of our children, who have Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. (Two just have ADD, not ADHD, so I get to see how the differences in their brain functioning affects their actions.) This has also shaped my concept of what the unconscious is doing and how that affects our lives. (It's also made me a lot more patient when my family members make impulsive decisions and act without reasoning on the consequences of their choices.)
At one point I read a magazine article on the unconscious mind that said not all thought is language, which I took to mean that the reason we can't access the thoughts of the unconscious with our conscious mind is because our unconscious doesn't have the language to communicate it's thoughts to our conscious in a way that we could be fully aware of. But brain imaging shows that the unconscious does react to the thoughts of our conscious mind, even if it doesn't use the same language in processing information, so I think this supports the idea that the conscious can influence the unconscious.
The impressions I've developed about what my unconscious mind is doing and thinking may not be scientific or entirely accurate (in fact, I could be totally wrong), but all of these different sources of information have helped me to come to the conclusion that my conscious mind, the decision maker, can have some insight into just what my unconscious mind is thinking and feeling and can have some influence over my inner "child" or my selfish, sometimes immature unconscious. It also helps me to accept what Dr. Sarno says about the unconscious trying to protect us by distracting us with physical pain. I think the conscious mind's insight into and influence on the unconscious helps me in stopping or reducing the pain, so yes, it is the decision-maker who really controls the pain for me.
I hope this makes my perspective a little more clear, but I also have to say that I wouldn't assume that other people will share my view of how the two parts of the brain "communicate."I guess that those of us who need to visualize what's going on in our heads each have to work out for ourselves the concept that makes the most sense to us personally. Redsandro, I hope you'll find whatever you need to help you tackle those symptom imperatives. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 20:01:07
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Corey, I found that description of your thinking on the subject of the unconscious very interesting. And also a reminder of why we toss around simplified concepts like "inner child". :)
It's funny, that I've been comfortable for a long time with the idea that much or most thought is not "language" as we know it, and also in an intellectual sense with the idea of the unconscious activity of the mind. But to actually take these concepts and apply them to myself was a different story. And the tension between delving into the complexities of the brain and using handy simplifications is something I struggle with. This despite intellectually being comfortable with the idea of oversimplification. Anyway, thanks for posting your thoughts on the subject.
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2007 : 21:03:48
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PACgirl says>>Two- I have been struggling with the idea that I read where you should truly experience the anger guilt, rage, etc and become comfortable with it so that your subconscious will not repress it. In doing so, I am having a hard time not becoming depressed and losing confidence in myself. I also have a hard time having fun between the pain and trying to recognise the emotional pain. I'm intentionally not dwelling on the issues but when I can't seem to both experience the thougts and memories without losing my upbeat and happy outlook.
I think for me it's breaking down the issues. If you keep reading Sarno and keep thinking about it, you can usually breakdown complex life issues into the base parcels of sadness, anger, fear. If you have been repressing these feelings for many years (as I was) it is overwhelming to recognize them and experience them.
Even though this process interupted what I thought was my "positive" outlook and "making the best" attitude, now that I looked back, those were superficial ways to deal with the pain which did have a cause that could be repaired. The depth of emotion involved with experiencing and even acknowledging these basic STRONG emotions was huge and I shed many tears. But, it was worth it, because the resulting depth of POSITIVE emotions has been phenominal. Not to say recognizing TMS was a quick fix to feeling emotionally wonderful everyday. But I can say this much -- the pain is gone and I can do the things I had given up. I'm 24 and I feel like I've been given my life back. You can definitely do the same! Keep going, keep working through it. If reading the books is helping you allready then it IS TMS. So, stick with it! I'm rooting for you!
Corey says>>I just have to acknowledge that some part of my mind is angry or hurt by something that's happened, or acknowledge that something has triggered repressed feelings from a previous event. It's the acknowledgment that is important for me.
I feel the same way. Just recently feeling like I can acknowledge an inner child that's not an intellectualized concept. That seemed to be a breakthough brought to me by spending a lot of time with family members withwhom I repress PLENTY. :)
peace yall! cb |
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PACgirl
2 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2007 : 16:27:26
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Thank you all so much for your insights and shared experiences. I look forward to learning the ropes and helping others along. It's so reassuring to not go through this "alone". The few people I've told are supportive, but don't really understand it like someone who has personal experience. I have continued to journal and really feel that I am uncovering a lot of emotions. My level of pain does not seem to be immediately effected by journaling, nor does there seem to be any correlation with between the extent of journaling and my pain. Has anyone found the same to be true? Does it just take time and repitition? The other thing I find is that I start to resent making time to journal, It comes full circle back to the perfectionism, and goodism and the resentment of it all. I feel like if I don't do it I'm not going to make the needed progress, however, when I do regularly make the time I feel annoyed that I have to spend time doing it. Like it's just one more thing I have to work harder at. (I have an ongoing issue with feeling like I'm at a disadvantage compared to friends, peers etc.) Has anyone else felt this way? How do you deal with it? I'm thinking I'm one of those that will need some therapy to be pain free. Any advice on introducing a therapist to TMS or finding one who treats in (particularly in the Philadelphia region)?
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2007 : 18:55:55
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PENNSYLVANIA
Lancaster
Randy A. Cohen, D.O.
Pain Medicine and Rehabilitation Specialists
160 North Pointe Blvd
Suite 115
Lancaster, PA 17601
rcohen@painstoppers.org
(717) 560-4480
(717) 560-4485 Fax
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 14:41:54
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Wow, this thread is amazing!
To add my input to experiencing the feelings:
PACgirl, it sounds like you might benefit from thinking about the inner child a bit more as a child, per se (even though it is just a metaphor). As a feeling being who needs acknowledgement, like Corey said. Our inner children, like real children, are very vulnerable and feel sad and angry when they have to deal with grownup concerns and pressures. It's no fun getting to those feelings sometimes, but once you get to them (you may or may not need to actually experience them, but I think it's helpful if you can) then hopefully they should begin to move through and out of you somewhat, rather than being stuck. They don't go away but they go to a more stable place.
I would recomment the creative growth article that helped me, http://creativegrowth.com/teresa.htm.
Also, remember that being depressed is a variety of TMS defense. If what you're doing is overwhelming, depression will push you away from it for your own "safety" and you might need to push through that, or it might be a sign that it is too much for you on your own, and you need to get some support from a therapist.
For journaling, to reduce the annoyance level you could limit your time each day; then you don't feel like it is eating your life!
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 22:02:14
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Since this got bumped up again, I'd like to add a few thoughts for the more science minded individuals among us who may have difficulty with the inner child concept. I do see it as a metaphor sort of thing that represents the biological processes in our brain which make up our "mind," and I've had difficulty in the past with getting to the point of using such a representation of those physical electrochemical signals that go on inside the brain.
I first heard the term inner child many years ago from a close friend who was emotionally scarred by an awful childhood, but I was put off by the phrase because I always had the impression it was used to refer to adults engaging in conscious thinking from a child’s perspective in order to try to fulfill emotional needs that were not well met in childhood.
A while back someone on the forum mentioned Dr. Sarno’s statement in TDM that we have all the emotional reactions we’ve ever experienced throughout our lives stored in our brains, and that gave me the impression that some people are using “inner child” to refer to the way the emotional circuits created by past experiences are still being used—electrochemical responses developed when we were children that are still being triggered by current events. That is something I can relate to and accept.
It seems to me that the information I've read about the brain reorganizing itself when we approach past hurts and traumas from a different perspective is really saying that if we acknowledge the feelings we had as a child and acknowledge that it was ok to feel that way, that can change the circuits or pathways that are involved in the physiological processes which give rise to our feelings. We wouldn't have gotten stuck with those faulty circuits if the feelings had been acknowledged in the first place. Now we can rewire the brain by accepting the feelings.
The image of a real child who is brushed aside and not acknowledged or comforted is a great way to picture what needs to be done in order to achieve the physiological rerouting, because the imaginary interaction is having the same positive physiological effect in the brain that a real parent-child interaction would have.
A while back someone posted a link to an interesting interview with a psychotherapist who wrote a book about the physiology of psychotherapy, which has some nice comments about how interaction reorganizes the brain's connections and allows us to change our feelings about sad and traumatic events. It's found at http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2006/1635052.htm You have to click on "show transcript" when you get to the page to read the interview.
I still go back and forth in my mind about whether Dr. Sarno is correct that the physical symptoms are an effort to distract us from the emotions or whether they might actually be the mind's alarm, trying to get us to pay attention to the emotions that we're pushing away. Either way, paying attention to those feelings in the same way we would to a small child is having the necessary physiological effect in the brain that allows the physical symptoms to stop. So, as Alexis puts it, this oversimplification may be uncomfortable for someone who is science-oriented, but the inner child makes a pretty good metaphor. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2007 : 22:57:31
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"I still go back and forth in my mind about whether Dr. Sarno is correct that the physical symptoms are an effort to distract us from the emotions or whether they might actually be the mind's alarm, trying to get us to pay attention to the emotions that we're pushing away."
Liked your post Littlebird. I have no doubt that the physical pain is a distraction to prevent repressed emotions that are perceived to be untenable from surfacing. Dr. Sarno, advancing on Freud's theory, that they are a punishment, theoizes that psychosomatic pain is a protective device. We prefer the physical pain to feeling the emotional pain.
We have the Good Doctor to thank for educating us to understand how the mind works in this regard and sounding the alarm for those of us who wish to explore the realm behind the physical pain.
Humans don't want to explore what lies beneath psychosomatic pain. A good example of this is the page I just read in TDM by Dr. Hoffman, wherein he recounts a lecture he gave to an audience of 400 suffering from fibromyalgia/TMS. Not a single person was interested in what he had to say about the relationship of the mindbody connection to their dis-ease. |
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Avenger
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 00:10:38
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| Pain protects us as much as it alarms us. But, I think Littlebird has a breakthrough with the TMS theory. I think she's right. Hmm... I know what's going to be in the upcoming Sarno book on the next decade :P |
Edited by - Avenger on 01/24/2007 00:12:28 |
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acknowledge TMS sources without dwelling
