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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2006 : 12:11:57
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I have both written and stated previously that I hold the belief that obsession with sex and pornography serves the same psychological function as does TMS. To briefly re-state, TMS is a process initiated by the brain to produce pain symptoms in various parts of the body with a view to diverting one's attention away from potentially painful or embarrassing emotions buried deep within the unconscious mind. (See the work of John E. Sarno, MD for elaboration on TMS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Sarno%2C_MD and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_myositis_syndrome)
From my vantage point, the brain will use anything at its disposal to divert one's attention from repressed emotions, and what could be more powerful or possess the ability to attract one's conscious attention than sexual desire? Sexual desire is indeed a wonderful gift and the fulfillment of it can't be fully described with mere words. Rare is the person indeed - except possibly for those who have been past victims of sexual abuse- who would say they hate sex. Hence, the large population of people we now see on the planet.
The problem comes when the pursuit of sexual gratification becomes a complete obsession to the point that the fulfillment of sexual desire becomes the central focus of one's life. In fact, this is the central problem with all obsessions. Anything that obsesses one's mind is doing so for one simple reason - distraction from some repressed emotion which the person does not want to deal with on the conscious level.
Much more could be written about this fascinating topic, with all of its psychological intricacies, but suffice it to say that whether they be pleasurable or painful, obsessions are psychologically unhealthy and when examining them it is essential that one looks for the real reasons behind the obsession and not so much on the contents of the obsession itself.
I am not suggesting here that one seeks to repress his/her sexual desire for fear that it will lead to an obsession. Fear of obsessions can itself become an obsession. Instead I am suggesting that when one notices a thought beginning to dominate their lives, and that they can think of little else, that this is strong indication that something else is taking place. And that something else is - in my opinion - the ever crafty brain seeking to divert one's attention away from repressed emotions (not always related to sexual matters) which the person would prefer to not consciously deal with.
Finally, as a confirmation of what I have just written, I invite readers to refer to page 76 of Dr. Sarno's "Healing Back Pain" where, after discussing obsessive behaviors, such as compulsive hand washing, he points out that these behaviors act as a "kind of substitute or displacement for strong unconscious feelings that the person cannot deal with, hence the preoccupation with germs."
Then Dr Sarno concludes this section - and thus solidifying the link I have just made above - by making this astonishing and insightful comment:
TMS serves the same purpose by keeping one's attention focused on the body, as do a variety of other physical disorders....."
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Edited by - shawnsmith on 01/18/2013 13:50:46 |
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Alpha
Germany
43 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 20:03:35
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Hi shawnsmith,
i don't know if i have actually inspired you with my Thread, but my case definitly supports your suggestion.
I was addicted to porn for years, it was/is really awful. Always searching for the "perfect" picture... you can't stop. And i was always hating myself for it, but it is such a strong urge and you spend hours with searching for better pictures, girls. It was REALLY distracting my from reality.
And even when you are not in front of the Pc it distracts you, because you think about"why i am doing it?" "Will someone find out?", "I waste SO much time with it, why can't i just stop this?".
You build up anger against yourself, shame, anxiety and there is a constant battle between your concious mind and your desire.
I think addictions/obsessions in general are a good distration. I was always obsessed by something. Pc Games, collecting something in a unhealthy manner, for example i started collecting dvds. I started to search for List like "250 best movies of all time" and was obssesed of watching every movie on this lists. Even if i had no desire of watching a movie, there was always this nagging feeling, that i had to watch them all. Really stuppid. Always this urge to find the best of everything.
The same with playing pc games. It was always a combination of Fun and Stress to be the best, build the best character, developing the best skill, strategy, even if i wasn't like playing, it was like a uncomplete task, I HAD to play.
Yeah, i see this sort of thinking since my early teens.
Today i am obsessed with Health: Finding the perfect diet, the perfect martial arts, the best, most secret techniques for building muscles, the most effective medition, breathing, tai chi, yoga, what ever.
I mean i just see it now, but its just another distraction, i spend hour in searching the best things in health i could engage in. But i like it and i think it isn't so bad, but its this feeling of never being setisfied, always looking for something better.
I mean its not specifically adicction what i am writing about, more obsession, but i think it has the same purpose, distracting the mind from the repressed emotions. I mean the physical symptoms itself promote this behavior. You think: "What is the best treatment?" "What fancy, unknown technique, system, treatment can help me?" "Which approaches will i test the next 6 month for releaving my symptoms?"
I think, your example of sexual obsession is a REALLY strong one, as i can confirm with my own past, but i think you can than relate a broader range of obessesive thinking to TMS as it all supports distraction from whats really going on through giving you the constant expression, that there is something urgent and importent, you must spend every possible second of your time on. Everything is fine, as long as we don't start looking at whats really going on, its like the mind creates a nice little show to distract as from reality, as with the pain and symptoms. I think i am getting the concept of TMS. Its really so true, when i think about it, the times in the past where i felt the best, was the times when i was really forcing me to lead a normal life, setting goals and forcing my attention on this goals, the pain always began kicking in again, when i had the "glorious" idea of setting "Finding the cure for my disease (even if it is better in the moment) once and for all." as one of my goals. Sure enough, it wasnt long and it slips from my third most importend goal, to my second importend goal, to my first importent goal, until i began again with searching for solutions, reading books about health on a friday night insteat of going out, worriying about my bad condition instead of going to college, stop seeing friends, because of being afraid that they think bad about me, because i am so depressed again... and it gets worse and worse, till the day (like today ;)) when i feel so bad again about doing NOTHING useful, that i force myself to go on with my life again and stop thinking about how bad i am all the ****ing time.
But i think you really can not break this vicious circle until you fought the roots of this behavior, the surpressed emotions. I am more and more convinced by the concept.
thx for the topic, you inspire me shawnsmith :)
- Alpha, who hopes, that his postings aren't such a bad abuse of the english language, as he thinks
PS: Ah, and shawnsmith, it would be really nice if you could reply one more time to my topic "visual snow ..." for i need one more confirmation, that my observations about myself aprove the idea that i really suffer from TMS. It would really help me. thx. |
Edited by - Alpha on 12/15/2006 20:14:09 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 20:24:29
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Alpha
From your last posting it sounds like you have a lot of perfectionist tendencies also. This generates a lot of internal rage. You set up a very high standard for yourself that you cannot possibly achieve and this in turn generates inward rage which you repress. This is typical for people with TMS.
Shawn
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 20:02:23
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| I really don't know a thing about visual snow. I never heard of it before you posted it. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 12/20/2006 05:40:16 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 09:41:07
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Hi Alpha,
Is the "visual snow" you are referring to in regards to migraines? If so, that was Sarno's first personal experience with TMS that started him on his theory of TMS. He was able to stop the migraines it their tracks at their on-set of the visual snow stage, by shifting his thoughts, from physcial to psychological.
You are not alone watching porn, it is the #1 topic on the internet.
Maybe you are not obsessive but PASSIONATE. Howard Stern, one of Sarno's biggest fans, has done pretty well with his ocd/passion for porn. If you have lemons make lemonade. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 09:58:29
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Dr. Sarno does indeed talk about these lights that he sees just before the onset of a migraine. He writes about this in the opening sections of his book The MindBody Prescription. Dr. Sarno sees this as a TMS equivalent and treats it the same way he would treat other TMS related pain symptoms. Worth reading for you Alpha.
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Alpha
Germany
43 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 16:19:34
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Hehe, i think you both have no idea what visual snow is. Its not "just" a light you see sometimes like Sarno describes it (i have read it, he refers in Healing Back Pain and Mindbody Prescribtion to this experience). Visual Snow is a Syndrom for its own.
1. I see television like static over my whole visual field, 24/7, since I'm 14. It began without warning, one day i woke up and it was there and never changed really in intensity. Its like a permanent flickering over everything i see.
2. Since this day i see floaters, MILLIONS of them. Like many different layers of floaters. It looks like germs in my eye, little pieces of glass, hard to describe and they swim on my vision, if i look to the side they slowly follow my focus.
3. If i look in light or daylight, i see light flashes all over my visual field which "crawl" in a consistent pattern, its all very hard to describe.
I visited EVERY eye doctor and neurologist here in Germany and they found nothing, nothing nothing. I made acupuncture, drank disgusting Chinese herb teas, chiropractic, everything. Nothing made it better. Some years ago i found others in the net, they always had an odyssey of doctor visits behind them, and nobody had a clue what it could be. It seems to be a really unknown "disease" cause its hard to find anything about it. I am sure it is TMS, because its VERY disturbing, it is "strange" and with massaging my neck and face muscles i produced i slight change in flickering pattern last month. I find out, that the muscles beyond my eyebrows, beyond my jaw, and around my ear and all over my neck are extremely painful to press, on my neck i have stone-hard knots all over it and so i think that this heavy tensions in head/Neck created a oxygen deprivation in my eyes with creates this symptoms, along with mild tinnitus, acne(is gone, but few flare ups now and then), sensitive teeth, headaches sometimes.
But PLZ read this link for a explanation in better English ;) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow
And more important, if you wane get an idea HOW DISTRACTING this condition is, look at this very authentic Image of the three main symptoms in visual snow:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Visualsnow-80.jpg
Its really like a bad Tv picture, WITH strange creatures swimming in our TV and flashes all over it (at least, the last JUST if its very bright), but its ok. I have it for so long now, its really not distracting anymore, i don't really see it. It had become normal, i think that's the reason why i developed CPPS as the new main syndrome, because before i get this, i was always afraid about my eyes, i mean REALLY afraid, like lying in my bed every night, sure that i get blind and die soon. After i became the visual snow my main thought was death, i don't know exactly why i was SO afraid, but i was constantly thinking about dying. Really scared to death. I think it was because i had the accident, where my lung collapses one year before and then this ****ing eye thing, it really grabbed me. But as soon as i lost my anxiety and acceppted the diagnosis, that there was really nothing wrong i lost my anxiety and sooner or later now "strange" diseases crawled in my life, always without anything structural.
SO i really think we can add this to the TMS equivalents and since we Snow vision people, seem to become more and more everyday, maybe Sarno acknowledges it sometimes. I think i try to write him about it. Its really such a strange condition to have, i am so curios about how a clear and "quiet" vision is like, i hope i will see it again.
And excuse me for my bad english grammar and writing style today, but i am tired today and not able to do it better, forgive me ^^
@Tennis Tom: What do you mean with Ocd/Passion for Porn? Is it like an obsession to consume it, like a acknowledged psychical issue?
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As you think, so shall you become. - Bruce Lee |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 20:24:46
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quoteing Alpha:
"@Tennis Tom: What do you mean with Ocd/Passion for Porn? Is it like an obsession to consume it, like a acknowledged psychical issue?"
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Alpha, I was writing, somewhat in jest, referring to Howard Stern who was treated by Dr. Sarno for OCD, "obsessesive compulsive disorder". Howard is a big fan of Dr. Sarno and wrote a chapter about him in his book Howard Stern-Miss America.
From your posts, it sounds like whatever you decide to do, you do it all the way. This may be viewed as being compulsive or maybe you are passionate about what you do. Who is to say or judge?
Van Gogh was considered a nut when he was alive. Now he is a genius and his paintings going for HUGE amounts.
If you aren't familiar with our Howard Stern, he has a tv/radio show that specializes on naked women, porn stars and freaks. He signed one of the biggest contracts ever with Serius Satellite for $52,000,000. His obsession with porn hasn't hurt his career. Maybe you could become an intern for his show. Since you have TMS it may be an entre.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2006 : 05:41:09
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That's a very interesting story....I won't be of any help accept to say that a few years ago one of my sweet little pooches jumped on my eye....I was lying on the floor and he pounced from on high, landing square on my left peeper...
By the next day I was swimming in floaters and flashers (flashes of light in the corner of your eye....kind of like lightning)...
Turns out I'd torn, or more accurately my dear doggie had torn my retina....I had laser treatment (despite what they tell you about the "painlessness" of this treatment) it hurt like hell, like my eyeball was burning)...
The flashes are gone, but to this day my visual field remains awash in floating spots as well as a kind of ever shifting fog...Not fun, but you get used to it...
As to the beloved canine, he remains unfazed. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2006 : 20:29:05
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So..
anyone found that one perfect picture yet?
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Do not base your joy upon the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2012 : 15:24:52
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| This is a hell of a topic-i dont know the former or the latter-my friend tt is here so im not debating the issue-he knows a lot-i just remember when i was younger this was an issue-but now that im older i have no problem in this area-although my DAD IS 90 AND STILL HORNY AS A GOAT-i just had no problems realizing that the thoughts from the past would stay their and at 40 im no horny goat anymore-maybe for that right person but no addiction by a long shot-and like said above it can become obsessive but to me it was the easiest obsession to get rid of i ever had-i just thought about all the stds |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2012 : 16:31:52
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| Ghost thread. The medical/industrial/psychiatric complex has or would like to turn most everything into a disease as has been done with aging and the pursuit and enjoyment of sex. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 10/22/2012 21:34:52 |
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2013 : 23:08:12
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Any experience which is felt by the person to constitute a problem (from porn obsession, through to anxiety, depression, pain, etc) can be seen as a 'solution' which our unconscious has come up with for a reason. Often/usually, the problem will at one time have been an adaptive response to a less than ideal situation, e.g the kid who become day-dreamy in response to violence in his home- it allows him an 'out' from the stress of the situation in an adaptive manner. His mind/brain has learnt this behaviour, and then continues to do it in all sorts of other situations, eg at school, where it begins to cause problems for him. As such, there is usually a core meaning/feeling to the problem- we keep on doing it (whether it be pain, or porn addiction) because in some (unconscious) way it 'works' for us. It is usually preventing us from having to deal with some other emotional truth, which at a deep level is perceived as being very threatening. As we know from the TMS approach, 'symptoms' serve a function- otherwise, they wouldnt continue. There is no reason for this to be less true for porn addiction than for any other problem, such as chronic pain. What would the person's life be like without the porn addiction? What would be happening? What less than ideal situation is the porn addiction protecting them from? We are naturally so focused on an 'anti-symptom' stance (quite understandably) that we usually fail to recognise that the symptom is actually serving us in some way. What is it keeping us from having to deal with in our lives?
James |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 05:33:13
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| These are good observations James. Thanks! I posted this over 6 years ago but got very little responce. |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 06:28:50
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What a fascinating topic.
A few years back I was rather passionate (thanks tom) about porn but it was underscored by a desire to find a) something that wasn't stupid and b) something that helped me clarify my own hungers.
So much of it is generic and badly made and emotionally bereft that one loses heart. After all sexuality is, as you rightly acknowledge, a beautiful celebration of life. Porn rarely captures this but then it is mass-produced so one shouldn't have high expectations in the main.
I digress. I think anything can become an obsession and distraction. A tms equivalent to be sure. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 09:54:30
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James
Perhaps what you are talking about is what Ekhart Tolle, in his book The Power of Now, referred to as "ordinary unconsciousnesses." In pages 73-75 he writes:
Ordinary Unconsciousness And Deep Unconsciousness
What do you mean by different levels of unconsciousness?
As you probably know, in sleep you constantly move between the phases of dreamless sleep and the dream state. Similarly, in wakefulness most people only shift between ordinary unconsciousness and deep unconsciousness. What I call ordinary unconsciousness means being identified with your thought processes and emotions, your reactions, desires, and aversions. It is most people's normal state. In that state, you are run by the egoic mind, and you are unaware of Being. It is a state not of acute pain or unhappiness but of an almost continuous low level of unease, discontent, boredom, or nervousness - a kind of background static. You may not realize this because it is so much a part of "normal" living, just as you are not aware of a continuous low background noise, such as the hum of an air conditioner, until it stops.
When it suddenly does stop, there is a sense of relief. Many people use alcohol, drugs, sex, food, work, television, or even shopping as anesthetics in an unconscious attempt to remove the basic unease. When this happens, an activity that might be very enjoyable if used in moderation becomes imbued with a compulsive or addictive quality, and all that is ever achieved through it is extremely short-lived symptom relief.
The unease of ordinary unconsciousness turns into the pain of deep unconsciousness - a state of more acute and more obvious suffering or unhappiness - when things "go wrong," when the ego is threatened or there is a major challenge, threat, or loss, real or imagined, in your life situation or conflict in a relationship. It is an intensified version of ordinary unconsciousness, different from it not in kind but in degree. In ordinary unconsciousness, habitual resistance to or denial of what is creates the unease and discontent that most people accept as normal living. When this resistance becomes intensified through some challenge or threat to the ego, it brings up intense negativity such as anger, acute fear, aggression, depression, and so on. Deep unconsciousness often means that the pain-body has been triggered and that you have become identified with it. Physical violence would be impossible without deep unconsciousness. It can also occur easily whenever and wherever a crowd of people or even an entire nation generates a negative collective energy field.
The best indicator of your level of consciousness is how you deal with life's challenges when they come. Through those challenges, an already unconscious person tends to become more deeply unconscions, and a conscious person more intensely conscious. You can use a challenge to awaken you, or you can allow it to pull you into even deeper sleep. The dream of ordinary unconsciousness then turns into a nightmare.
If you cannot be present even in normal circumstances, such as when you are sitting alone in a room, walking in the woods, or listening to someone, then you certainly won't be able to stay conscious when something "goes wrong" or you are faced with difficult people or situations, with loss or the threat of loss. You will be taken over by a reaction, which ultimately is always some form of fear, and pulled into deep unconsciousness. Those challenges are your tests. Only the way in which you deal with them will show you and others where you are at as far as your state of consciousness is concerned, not how long you can sit with your eyes closed or what visions you see.
So it is essential to bring more consciousness into your life in ordinary situations when everything is going relatively smoothly. In this way, you grow in presence power. It generates an energy field in you and around you of a high vibrational frequency. No unconsciousness, no negativity, no discord or violence can enter thatfield and survive, just as darkness cannot survive in the presence of light. When you learn to be the witness of your thoughts and emotions, which is an essential part of being present, you may be surprised when you first become aware of the background "static" of ordinary unconsciousness and realize how rarely, if ever, you are truly at ease within yourself. On the level of your thinking, you will find a great deal of resistance in the form of judgment, discontent, and mental projection away from the Now. On the emotional level, there will be an undercurrent of unease, tension, boredom, or nervousness. Both are aspects of the mind in its habitual resistance mode.
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 15:43:01
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Shawnsmith- yes, i think Echart Tolle is one of the few spiritual philosophers around (he probably rejects that term?) who nails it in so many ways, in the tradition of Alan Watts (I'm sure he'd hate that reference as well!). Such people are clearly not charlatans, which makes them stand out in the spiritual discourse world as unique contributors.
James |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 11:43:40
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Tolle also writes in the same book:
"Every addiction arises from an unconscious refusal to face and move through your own pain. Every addiction starts with pain and ends with pain. Whatever the substance you are addicted to - alcohol, food,legal or illegal drugs, or a person - you are using something or somebody to cover up your pain. That is why, after the initial euphoria has passed, there is so much unhappiness, so much pain in intimate relationships. They do not cause pain and unhappiness. They bring out the pain and unhappiness that is already in you. Every addiction does that. Every addiction reaches a point where it does not work for you anymore, and then you feel the pain more intensely than ever." |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 01/22/2013 11:44:46 |
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cakeflowfatt
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2013 : 12:38:48
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Good stuff thanks
Very enlightening
[quote]Originally posted by shawnsmith
James
Perhaps what you are talking about is what Ekhart Tolle, in his book The Power of Now, referred to as "ordinary unconsciousnesses." In pages 73-75 he writes:
Ordinary Unconsciousness And Deep Unconsciousness
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On porn addiction and TMS
