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Paul
134 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2006 : 20:33:31
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I've had many years of deep rectal spasms and tightness. PT's have found numerous tight trigger points in the pelvic floor muscles and it hurts really bad. I've had MRI's, all kinds of tests, etc. and nothing is physically wrong with me...just extremely tight rectal muscles.
It all started with prostatitis during a very stressful year. That went away, but the muscle tension and spasm in the rectum only got worse over the years and is always there. But...I have had times when it doesn't hurt or seems absent (honeymoon) and other times. Most of the time though it consumes my thinking almost all the time.
In a nutshell, it is ruining my life. Many say I need to "work out" and loosen the trigger points in the rectum to get better...and learn to relax to calm down my nervous system. It is a subconscious "bracing" of these muscles.
I also have a LOT of panic and fear, depression within me as well. There are times when the pain can be bad...and the anxiety is low. Then there can be times when the pain is minimal and my anxiety is off the hook...I feel like I've got excess adrenaline and I want to jump out of my skin. Strange to say the least and very uncomfortable.
Have ANY of you had this horrible problem and beat it using Sarno's ideas? I am a worrier, shy, easily stressed, etc. as well. I'm a very, very self-conscious person who takes life and things way too seriously for sure.
ANY feedback would be greatly, greatly appreciated!
Thank you! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 21:54:22
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Hi Paul,
Try doing a search for "pelvic floor" and you should find numerous threads with it mentioned. It will be hi-lited in yellow.
Good Luck,
tt
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Paul, there were several pages of threads on your symptom in the archives, did any of those address your concern? |
Edited by - tennis tom on 12/04/2006 08:18:39 |
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Kristin
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 22:24:10
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I am familiar with this symptom. I have been able to diminish the occurance of it somewhat by at least acknowledging that it's TMS. It tends to strike me at night usually, which is the time I also have what I think might be GERD triggered asthma. Thankfully I've never had the two at the same time. Panic and Pain!! Yikes. This might be the most excruciating thing I've ever experienced. I severely dislike having my sleep disrupted by these unpleasant things. It makes my husbands snoring seem like a piece of cake.
The only kind of working out that might help or perhaps what has helped me is Yoga. Not so much for the physical, although I'm sure it helps but for the focus that the meditation aspect assists, with breathing and allowing the mind to observe physical symptoms and become more or less detached or attached. |
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weatherman
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 23:51:26
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I know exactly what you're talking about, at times I've had one of those rectal spasms once every month or so - it wakes me out of a sound sleep and hurts 100X worse than any back spasm I ever had. Fortunately they've always been short term, disappearing in 10-15 minutes. I have to get up and move around, however.
Curiously, since my old achilles stuff flared up I've not had one. I have no doubt mine are TMS, and if they can find nothing physical I'm sure yours are too. I also had a few rounds of prostatitis, which I'm now convinced were pure TMS - as I was always negative for any indentifiable infection, though they give you antibiotics anyway.
Weatherman |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 06:52:22
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See the thing is, you speak of sharp rectal cramps. I have a constant "knot" in the rectum and spasms. I have had the sharp pains before, but very seldom. Docs have called it Levator Ani Syndrome of Pelvic Floor Muscle Dysfunction.
I was hoping someone here that has beat something similiar could chime in. I just need the reassurance.
Yes, I have chronic anxiety and chronic pain at the same time. Very depressing and it has taken over my life. Surely there is a way to beat this. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 10:54:22
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I have a constant knot in my low back and often a similar clenching that you mention, although not as chronic as you mention. Bottom line is you are describing what causes TMS pain in the first place (some doctors have called it myofacial pain in reference to other parts of the body). "bracing" is a common TMS symptom and is a precurser to TMJ and other TMS pain symptoms.
Treat your problem as TMS and at the same time attempt to apply relaxation techniques to affected areas, such as meditation (this will not affect your TMS therapy). Although identifying with others' TMS symptoms is comforting, it is not necessary, and you may never find someone with your exact symptoms. First come to the conclusion that you have TMS and you will slowly get better. |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 19:32:31
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I haven't been checking the board for a while but just happened to chek in tonight and saw your post. I could have written it (except of course for the prostatitis). My rectal spasms were so bad, I had several botox injections down there (under full-anesthesia) in an attempt to break the spasm. It worked for a short time and then came back. I was on the verge of having surgery to cut the rectal sphincter when someone on this board talked me out of it. This is a truely awful symptom and impossible to ignore because you do have to go to the bathroom and for me that was agony. Now the good news- I never went back to see the colorectal surgeon, I started journaling and taking the TMS approach and I am now 95% cured. I still sometimes feel slight tightness down there but now that I know what it is, I'm not afraid of it, I recognize it as a sign to pay attention to my emotions and it goes away.
This was part of my general problem of chronic pelvic pain which I had for years. Check some of my old posts and you'll see I tried everything, physical therapy, electrical stimulation, pelvic floor retraining and none of it helped. I had all the trigger points- even went through the humiliating internal massage and was told I had pelvic floor dysfunction, Levator Ani syndrome, sacroilliac problems etc, etc, etc. There is no question this is TMS and you can definitely beat it!! It won't happen all at once and I personally don't see anything wrong with using physical measures to ease your suffering while you attack the psychological stuff as long as you absolutely realize that's not where the cure will come from.
Things that helped me cope (bear in mind I don't use any of these any more because I don't need to) were stool softeners, hot baths, walking around -and definitely sleeping with -a thermacare heat wrap in my underwear- I think it is the one for shoulders that works the best- Xanax used occassionally would also help break a cycle of spasm. If you go see a colorectal surgeon, they can give you some nitroglycerin cream which will give you wicked headaches but relax the muscle enough so you can use the bathroom.
There have not been so many of us here with pelvic pain as our primary complaint but there have been a few. I know how awful this is and I hope my story gives you hope. I don't know what would have happened to me if I hadn't found out about TMS. My pain was consuming my life - then I realized that that was the point and I made the conscious decision to ignore it. A few days later, somewhere else started to hurt and that was when I KNEW that it was TMS. It has been a journey of self-understanding that still continues but you have to begin somewhere. |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 19:42:49
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Carolyn,
First of all, THANK YOU! Yes, I read your posts and I was hoping you would respond to my thread. I'm so glad you did! I think the thing I'm battling the most right now on how to handle this horrible rectal spasm and "golf ball in the rectum" feeling is...do I do internal massage to work it out or do I just go completely TMS on it and do nothing except for focus on my mind only and talk back to my pain.
Carolyn, how long did you have the rectal tightness and spasms and most of all how and when did it start?
Mine all started during one of the most stressful times in my life, but it was prostatitis at first. Of course, pelvic muscle tension can cause this so I'm sure I was internally "clenching" and it started this whole mess to only get worse over the years.
Lastly, did you talk to your subconscious? I'm trying to do this by saying things directly to the muscle pain like, "You are harmless." "Relax now, you are not hurting me", etc. Feels kinda strange doing it. :) Also, when you journalized, I've heard it is very important to never talk about the "pain", to focus strictly on the emotional things in life.
I'm SO glad you posted Carolyn! You give me great hope! |
Edited by - Paul on 12/05/2006 19:43:51 |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 12:38:23
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Paul,
I guess you were the reason I just happened to check the board last night. I'm glad I can help you- I am so grateful to the people on this board who helped me get my life back.
My pain started with what may have been a 'real' physical problem during my second pregnancy that caused me pelvic pain. I returned to work with two small children and a very stressful job with a lot of responsibility. I ended up needing to have surgery 7 separate times over the course of about 2 1/2 years to fix the original problem which was needless to say very stressful. It was 2001 and during that year, my closest childhood friend died at 34, another close friend (also only 34) died several months later- both from illnesses. I was living in NY at the time and in the midst of all that came 9/11. I knew quite a few people who were killed- although no very close friends. I lived for about a year after that in a state of extreme fear most of the time. If you remember, there was one warning after another of impending terror attacks, most of them aimed at NY, and my nervous system was just shot. I think it was somewhere in there that the boundary between what was a 'real' problem and what was psychological became blurred.
I think that I got pelvic pain instead of back pain because during that very stressful time, I was very focussed on my pelvis because of the pregnancy and gynocological problems. I was definitely aware of 'clenching' my whole pelvis almost as though I could protect it. Or, now that I have done some hournaling, I wonder if it was because I was ambivalent and maybe resentful about going back to work and managing my children and everyone just expecting so much of me.
Once the 'real' problem was finally fixed, the pain just sort of migrated into my hip and low back and rectum, interstitial cystitis although the original pain would come back as well. I know there are theories about chronic tension causing you to use the muscles wrong resulting in pelvic floor dysfunction a that it is very hard to treat. You've probably heard of David Wise and maybe even thought about flying out to California and staying in a hotel to get his internal massage therapy. Much of what he says makes a lot of sense - stress triggering a protective reflex in the pelvic muscles- but he feels that along with stress reduction, the massage and trigger point therapy is essential for a cure and for me it wasn't necessary at all. So let go of that notion, that you have this dysfunction and therefore it's going to be hard for you to get better.
Just start doing the TMS 'work' Start making yourself journal every night and see what happens. For me, this was the beginning of my anxiety (I had never had it before that) and my symptoms started moving around That was just what I needed to convince myself that TMS theory was right. Even the fact that you already notice that your anxiety is worse when your pain is less should tell you that this is TMS. Why would a muscle dysfuction lessen when you are anxious? It's not a quick cure but you will get better- maybe dramatically at first, then you may backslide a little (or a lot) or get a sudden neck spasm- but it will increase your confidence in the diagnosis. It is certainly worth trying before you think about having surgery or just decide to give up on having a normal life!
Good luck. I'll check into the board occassionally to see how you are doing.
Carolyn |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 15:42:08
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| Dr Sopher says he has treated people with such a condition using Dr. Sarno's TMS concepts and he has been successful. This is just TMS under yet another manifestation. Trigger points are areas of oxygen deprivation initiated by the brain and they will not go away with physical therapy or manipulation because it is TMS (with my apologies to massage therapists out there). Even if you did make the pain go away with physical therapy or manipulation the pain would merely show up again somewhere else due to the nature of TMS and how the symptoms move around. |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2006 : 08:56:55
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UPDATE: 12-09-2006
Thought I would update here on my progress. I'm hoping that in time I will recover and this thread can help others with pelvic pain or levator ani syndrome.
Over the last week I've been telling the pain and tightness in the rectum that it is "harmless" and is "only muscle tension". Also, that it is not going to hurt me anymore. At first I felt very empowered, I had a mental shift so to speak. The pain seemed to lessen slightly, but it may be because my mood switched.
As I mentioned in earlier posts I'm also dealing with really bad chronic anxiety. So bad that going to a grocery store or even having friends over is tough. Not sure why, it just is. I feel a deep sense of insecurity and fear about the pain, etc. I'm working on this as well.
Now to yesterday...
Yesterday I had an appointment in a town 25 miles from here. My stomach wasn't feeling really well and this really got me anxious. One of my biggest fears is getting ill and sick in public or alone with no one to help me. So when I feel a bit ill, anxiety really kicks in. Well, this happened yesterday during my apt. and also in the afternoon when I met a friend of mine at a bookstore. In fact, I cut that meeting short. I just felt uneasy and like I was going to jump out of my skin.
So last night I finally started to journal before going to sleep. I wrote, and wrote. At times, I broke down in tears. A lot of what I wrote were fears and frustrations I had, and also things that make me sad (like my divorce this past August in which my wife left me, but I still love her. In a nutshell, all my pain and anxiety took its toll and I made her feel "alone" because I was so focused on my issues and didn't do social things with her because of anxiety, etc.) This STILL greatly saddens me. :(
So I wrote, and I cried. Then I went to sleep...but when I was laying there, I mentally talked to the tension in my bum and said it was "harmless" and that "you don't have to hurt or be tight anymore...I know you are only FEAR" etc. I could feel my pain decrease and the muscles let loose a bit more.
Then I started with some personal affirmations...I said things to myself like..."It is ok" "Everything is ok", etc. and THIS really, really made me cry. And then a really strange thing happened. I had a sense of my grandparents who are deceased giving me a hug or the feeling of their presence hugging me and I cried SO hard. I was like a child in their arms. Then it all stopped. The room got quiet.
My pain had decreased by about 40% in total.
I woke up this morning about 6am because I heard my cat knock something off the kitchen counter (he does this often). When I went back to bed, I had NO pain...NO tension in my rectum. When I finally got back up again around 9am, I felt tired and my pain was probably a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. Of course, as I type this, it is back up to a 6 or so.
Anyway, that is where I stand. It is a tough road this TMS thing is. Today I just feel "blah" and kinda down in the dumps. I'm sure that is normal.
I will try to post updates as I go along. Thanks for listening and helping...ALL of you! |
Edited by - Paul on 12/09/2006 08:57:17 |
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JohnO
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 09:43:52
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| Paul and Carolyn -- I have had the exact same symptoms as you describe to a T and have had useless surgeries, drugs and procedures. I just found this forum today. I have long been a Dr. Sarno disciple and even wrote him and got a response back years ago when "Mind Body Prescription" helped my neck pain immesaurably. I feel so stupid not realizing levator syndrome could be helped by this. I am going to dive into the book tonight. Can you update on how you are doing since last post? |
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Alpha
Germany
43 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2006 : 15:45:14
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@JohnO: Since i also suffer from Pelvic Pain, in combination with some other problems, i was curious, why your levator syndrome hasn't disapperead togehter with the neck pain. I mean do i have to thread every single symptome for itself? I mean when i work on my emotions successfully, shouldn't all my physical symptoms disappear? Or has your brain used the fact that you was so unaware of Levator syndrom as TMS equvalent, that it could continue the distraction strategy with it.
I ask, because i am not 100% sure about every of my symptoms to be TMS and i thought if i do the TMS work everything what IS Tms (hopefully ALL) will disappear by itself.
- Alpha |
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JohnO
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 06:36:35
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| Alpha -- I am not as experienced in this subject as so many more on this board so not sure I am the best to respond but I do believe you can help multiple conditions at once using Dr. Sarno's techniques. As I said, I was deeply into this about 7 years ago and let it slide (stupidly) and now it is back with a vengenace. Conventional medicine has failed this levator syndrome issue. I immersed myself into his techniques last night and really feel better already. Why I didn't realize this was the way to go before all of the medical misery, I don't know. Stay with it, Alpha, I am convinced it will help you. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 12:46:09
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JohnO
I suggest you read "Mind Body Prescription" over again, especially the psychology and treatment sections. If applying the principles of TMS teachings worked on your neck pain they will also work work with your pelvic pain also. I know this from personal experience. But it takes time and work every single day. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 13:43:38
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I wish everybody the best of luck solving their pelvic pain issues but for me the TMS work just did not work.
For me it works great for back and neck pain which I can make disappear instantly.
I don't know if it has to do with deeper feelings (sexuality etc...)but I failed miserably to address it. |
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Jodi
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 14:55:14
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| Wow! I cannot believe how many of the symptoms all of you have described, I've had as well. From the time I was very small, I've had stomache trouble. That symptom has persisted throughout my life. Everything mentioned in this forum I have had at some point. Back and leg pain seem to be the symptom of choice these days. It is very reassuring to hear that I'm not the only one and I hope it is reassuring to all of you as well to know there are others out there with the exact same symptoms. I'll bet if we listed the symptoms we've all experienced in the last 10 years or so, many of us would have lists that practically mirror each other. I'm so glad I found this web site. There is an end in sight!!! |
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JohnO
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2006 : 10:39:30
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| Oh, it works for sure. I have immersed myself back into it and the levator stuff is much better in just 2 days. Just tossing all the useless pills was helpful. Stick with it. |
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Paul
134 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2006 : 16:25:14
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Carolyn...I hope you read this. I know you only check this forum every now and then.
I know you have beat this thing. I just wanted to ask you...did your symptoms get REALLY BAD when you started to confront it? I've been doing this and the pain is the worst I think it has EVER been!
It is really, really hard to keep the focus when the pain is screaming and of course the dangerous thoughts of "God, what if this gets worse?" tend to float in.
I continue to fight it by sitting even though it hurts like crazy and I also try to talk to my subconscious. I also continue to journal each night and read TMS stuff. |
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gezzer
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 01:04:40
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HI paul i have been reading your mail and i have the exact same symptons as youself the same thing with me i had prostitis several times that eventually went away like after a year or so but then came this terrible levator syndrome in the rectum i also sometimes get irritable bowel and this really sets it off, this is so frustrating as it affects your whole life style i have now been enduring this for 2 or more years now and it is driving me crazy i read all your reviews that where last year i have just found this website now and wonder if you have discovered any treatments that work.
g mccallum |
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JohnO
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 06:50:14
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| Gezzer -- I have the same thing and have been a lot better since I accepted this as TMS six months ago. You can search some of my and Paul's other posts for more. Others who have recognized this as TMS have improved but it is like a roller coaster. There are more good days than bad but still bad ones that make it frustrating wondering if it will go away forever. I have been told that it takes a long time, a year or more, and that a lot of hard work as prescribed in the book is necessary. Most people on this forum have back and neck problems and few with this so if you want to e-mail me off line that is fine too. |
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Levator Ani Syndrome and Rectal Tightness, Spasms?
