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MikeJ
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
 Posted - 11/24/2006 : 12:04:38
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I think it was BB who said he picked up obscure symptoms by simply reading about it in the forum, and felt better after leaving and moving on with his life. And I noticed Shawnsmith only posts positive and inspiring stories in this forum.
I'd like to share a few personal notes on why anger/negative people is bad for your brain. Most of the content is from articles on psychology and scientific research papers I found online on anger, happiness, and science behind it. There are a few paragraphs relevant to TMS too. I haven't edited it to make it more coherent for the forum, but I trust some of the quotes and links will make up for it. I hope you'll enjoy. Here goes:
Mike's Notes
What have I learned?
- Happier people can think more logically.
- Spending time with nervous, anxious people will alter your brain neurological patterns.
- Nurses, cops, social workers, etc, are often at a higher risk of depression and burnout.
- Left-siders may better handle stressful events.
- Anger and resentment are the most contagious of emotions.
What should I do?
- Read positive things, and hang around happy people.
- Find a positive balance - spend 60% of your time with happy people, and 40% with unhappy people.
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Why should you hang around happy people?
1) Because angry and negative people can be bad for your brain.
2) Scientific evidence suggests that happy people are better able to think logically.
Source:
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/104/107503.htm?z=1674_00000_5022_pe_01
http://web.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=brainBriefings_blissAndTheBrain
Why is surrounding yourself with negativity, and angry and negative people can be bad for your brain?
2 reasons:
1) Mirror neurons
2) Emotional Contagion
What are Mirror neurons?
A Mirror neuron is a neuron which fires both when performing an action and when observing the same action performed by another (possibly conspecific) creature. Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of another animal, as though the observer were performing the action.
It's what these neurons do that's amazing--they activate in the same way when you're watching someone else do something as they do when you're doing it yourself.
Source http://www.interdisciplines.org/mirror/papers/1
Video http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3204/01.html
How does it work?
"We learn from watching others. We learn from imitating (mirroring) others. The potential problem, though, is that these neurons go happily about their business of imitating others without our conscious intention."
Examples?
"Spend time with a nervous, anxious person and physiological monitoring would most likely show you mimicking the anxiety and nervousness, in ways that affect your brain and body in a concrete, measurable way. Find yourself in a room full of pissed off people and feel the smile slide right off your face. Listen to people complaining endlessly about work, and you'll find yourself starting to do the same. How many of us have been horrified to suddenly realize that we've spent the last half-hour caught up in a gossip session--despite our strong aversion to gossip? The behavior of others we're around is nearly irresistible."
How do you solve this?
"When we're consciously aware and diligent, we can fight this. But the stress of maintaining that conscious struggle against an unconscious, ancient process is a non-stop stressful drain on our mental, emotional, and physical bandwidth."
So we shouldn't spend time with people who are angry?
"No, I'm not suggesting that we can't or should'nt spend time with people who are angry, negative, critical, depressed, gossiping, whatever. Some (including my sister and father) chose professions (nurse practitioner and cop, respectively) that demand it. And some (like my daughter) volunteer to help those who are suffering (in her case, the homeless). Some people don't want to avoid their more hostile family members. But in those situations--where we choose to be with people who we do not want to mirror--we have to be extremely careful! Nurses, cops, mental health workers, EMTs, social workers, red cross volunteers, fire fighters, psychiatrists, oncologists, etc. are often at a higher risk (in some cases, WAY higher) for burnout, alcholism, divorce, stress, or depression unless they take specific steps to avoid getting too sucked in to be effective."
What does science say about the effect of mirror neurons?
"Regarding the effect of mirror neurons and emotional contagion on personal performance, neurologist Richard Restak offers this advice:
"If you want to accomplish something that demands determination and endurance, try to surround yourself with people possessing these qualities. And try to limit the time you spend with people given to pessimism and expressions of futility. Unfortunately, negative emotions exert a more powerful effect in social situations than positive ones, thanks to the phenomena of emotional contagion."
This sounds harsh, and it is, but it's his recommendation based on the facts as the neuroscientists interpret them today. This is not new age self-help--it's simply the way brains work."
Old common sense?
"Choose your role models carefully."
"Watching Michael Jordan will help you get better."
"You're hanging out with the wrong crowd; they're a bad influence."
"Don't watch people doing it wrong... watch the experts!"
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What is emotional contagion?
Emotional contagion is the tendency to express and feel emotions that are similar to and influenced by those of others. Emotional contagion may be involved in crowd behaviors, like collective fear, rage, or moral panic, but also emotional interactions in smaller groups such as negotiation, teaching and persuasion contexts. It is also the phenomenon when a person (especially a child) appears distressed because another person is distressed, or happy because they are happy.
Source: http://jom-emit.cfpm.org/1998/vol2/marsden_p.html
What happens when you're near angry people?
Steven Stosny, an expert on road rage, is quoted in Restak's book:
"Anger and resentment are thet most contagious of emotions," according to Stonsy. "If you are near a resentful or angry person, you are more prone to become resentful or angry yourself. If one driver engages in angry gestures and takes on the facial expressions of hostility, surrounding drivers will unconsciously imitate the behavior--resulting in an escalation of anger and resentment in all of the drivers. Added to this, the drivers are now more easily startled as a result of the outpouring of adrenaline accompanying their anger. The result is a temper tantrum that can easily escalate into road rage."
If you were around one or more people with a potentially harmful contagious disease, you would probably take steps to protect yourself in some way. And if you were the contagious one, you'd likely take steps to protect others until you were sure the chance of infecting someone else was gone.
But while we all have a lot of respect for physical biological contagions, we do NOT have much respect for physical emotional contagions. (I said "physical", because science has known for quite some time that "emotions" are not simply a fuzzy-feeling concept, but represent physical changes in the brain.)
What happens when you talk to someone who is depressed?
Emotional contagion is considered one of the primary drivers of group/mob behavior, and the recent work on "mirror neurons" helps explain the underlying cause. But it's not just about groups. From a Cambridge University Press book:
"When we are talking to someone who is depressed it may make us feel depressed, whereas if we talk to someone who is feeling self-confident and buoyant we are likely to feel good about ourselves. This phenomenon, known as emotional contagion, is identified here, and compelling evidence for its affect is offered from a variety of disciplines - social and developmental psychology, history, cross-cultural psychology, experimental psychology, and psychopathology."
Can any of us honestly say we haven't experienced emotional contagion? Even if we ourselves haven't felt our energy drain from being around a perpetually negative person, we've watched it happen to someone we care about. We've noticed a change in ourselves or our loved ones based on who we/they spend time with. We've all known at least one person who really did seem able to "light up the room with their smile," or another who could "kill the mood" without saying a word. We've all found ourselves drawn to some people and not others, based on how we felt around them, in ways we weren't able to articulate.
Source http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521449480
What about the argument that says "anger" is morally (and intellectually) superior to "happy"? http://www.apa.org/topics/controlanger.html
The American Psychological Association has this to say on anger:
"People who are easily angered generally have what some psychologists call a low tolerance for frustration, meaning simply that they feel that they should not have to be subjected to frustration, inconvenience, or annoyance. They can't take things in stride, and they're particularly infuriated if the situation seems somehow unjust: for example, being corrected for a minor mistake."
Of course it's still a myth that "happy people" don't get angry. Of course they do. Anger is often an appropriate response. But there's a Grand Canyon between a happy-person-who-gets-angry and an unhappy-angry-person. So yes, we get angry. Happiness is not our only emotion, it is simply the outlook we have chosen to cultivate because it is usually the most effective, thoughtful, healthy, and productive.
What about fear and anger?
Neuroscience has made a long, intense study of the brain's fear system--one of the oldest, most primitive parts of our brain. Anger and negativity usually stem from the anxiety and/or fear response in the brain, and one thing we know for sure--when the brain thinks its about to be eaten or smashed by a giant boulder, there's no time to stop and think! In many ways, fear/anger and the ability to think rationally and logically are almost mutually exclusive. Those who stopped to weigh the pros and cons of a flight-or-fight decision were eaten, and didn't pass on their afraid-yet-thoughtful genes.
Happiness is associated most heavily with the left (i.e. logical) side of the brain, while anger is associated with the right (emotional, non-logical) side of the brain.
From a Society for Neuroscience article on Bliss and the Brain:
"Furthermore, studies suggest that certain people's ability to see life through rose-colored glasses links to a heightened left-sided brain function. A scrutiny of brain activity indicates that individuals with natural positive dispositions have trumped up activity in the left prefrontal cortex compared with their more negative counterparts. "
Source: http://web.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=brainBriefings_blissAndTheBrain
"Evidence suggests that the left-siders may better handle stressful events on a biological level. For example, studies show that they have a higher function of cells that help defend the body, known as natural killer cells, compared with individuals who have greater right side activity. Left-sided students who face a stressful exam have a smaller drop in their killer cells than right-siders. Other research indicates that generally left-siders may have lower levels of the stress hormone, cortisol."
What are the myths about happy people?
Happy=Vacuous.
"Happy people aren't critical."
"Happy people don't get angry."
"Happy people are obedient."
"Happy people can't be a disruptive force for change."
"Surrounding yourself with happy people mean we shut down our critical thinking skills."
"It's "fake" goodness and avoiding truth."
If you can't say whatever the hell you want to express your anger, you can't be authentic and honest!
While that may be true, here's what the psychologists say:
"Psychologists now say that this is a dangerous myth. Some people use this theory as a license to hurt others. Research has found that "letting it rip" with anger actually escalates anger and aggression and does nothing to help you (or the person you're angry with) resolve the situation.
It's best to find out what it is that triggers your anger, and then to develop strategies to keep those triggers from tipping you over the edge."
http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2006/04/angrynegative_p.html
How to be happy?
Six Tips for Happiness
Advice from Tal Ben-Shahar.
1. Give yourself permission to be human. When we accept emotions -- such as fear, sadness, or anxiety -- as natural, we are more likely to overcome them. Rejecting our emotions, positive or negative, leads to frustration and unhappiness.
2. Happiness lies at the intersection between pleasure and meaning. Whether at work or at home, the goal is to engage in activities that are both personally significant and enjoyable. When this is not feasible, make sure you have happiness boosters, moments throughout the week that provide you with both pleasure and meaning.
3. Keep in mind that happiness is mostly dependent on our state of mind, not on our status or the state of our bank account. Barring extreme circumstances, our level of well being is determined by what we choose to focus on (the full or the empty part of the glass) and by our interpretation of external events. For example, do we view failure as catastrophic, or do we see it as a learning opportunity?
4. Simplify! We are, generally, too busy, trying to squeeze in more and more activities into less and less time. Quantity influences quality, and we compromise on our happiness by trying to do too much.
5. Remember the mind-body connection. What we do -- or don't do -- with our bodies influences our mind. Regular exercise, adequate sleep, and healthy eating habits lead to both physical and mental health.
6. Express gratitude, whenever possible. We too often take our lives for granted. Learn to appreciate and savor the wonderful things in life, from people to food, from nature to a smile.
Source: Recording from NPR "Finding Happiness in a Harvard Classroom " http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5295168
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Chris Graeme
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 13:22:41
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Thanks for posting that Mike. It is really helpful and insightful.
It chimes with something I've been thinkin about - that expressing anger rather than repressing it would make me an unpleasant person. I really dislike the negative/angry people and was starting to wonder if I had to become more that way myself if I was effectively to get to work on the TMS.
There must be a balance. |
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Tunza
New Zealand
198 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 15:45:23
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I have struggled with this too Chris. I think that't the beauty of journalling because you can be as angry as you want in a journal and it's not going to bring anyone else down. Then it's easier to move on from those feelings and be nicer to be around.
Interesting post Mike. |
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floorten
United Kingdom
120 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 08:09:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Graeme
Thanks for posting that Mike. It is really helpful and insightful.
It chimes with something I've been thinkin about - that expressing anger rather than repressing it would make me an unpleasant person. I really dislike the negative/angry people and was starting to wonder if I had to become more that way myself if I was effectively to get to work on the TMS.
There must be a balance.
If you really dislike negative angry people, I would say this is a clear sign that you *are* a negative and angry person! You're just not letting it to the surface, hence the TMS.
How can I say this without even knowing you? Well, I've been there and discovered in me such anger as I never knew even existed. I also believe that it a law of the brain that we fear or dislike what we disown in ourselves. If it didn't remind you of some part of you you were trying to hide then you'd feel just neutral towards the subject - or maybe even sympathetic.
It's precisely your striving for "balance" as dictated by various social rules and conventions that has caused this TMS in the first place. No one can live in modern life and not get angered by the pressure it causes. But when you disown that anger as "socially unacceptable" or "unreasonable" you're setting the groundwork for an outburst of TMS instead. It's only a matter of time.
Ditch balance. Embrace anger. It's the next necessary step on the road to healing. You don't have to stay there, but you will need to move through it.
peace,
greg
--
"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 08:42:23
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Another good post Floorten. In Sarno's latest EMBRACING emotions is also recommended. My parents were old world Hungarian and I don't think I ever saw them communicate without "arguing", so it didn't phase me. I think it was a good outlet for them from the pressures of being poor immigrants working their butts off at ****ty jobs to create a "good life" for their kids.
When I went out into the white-bread world of frisco culture of the 50's, 60's it wasn't "cool" to show emotions, this is the home of the beatnik, the "cool-aid" being alcohol, a depressant. My parent's passionate method of "communications" was in marked contrast to the passive-aggressive culture I was thrown into.
Our material techo/culture encouages the quashing of emotions. Can you imagine the loss of productivity on the assembly line if workers would stop to "argue"--profit margins would be seriously down. It's in the best interest of the economy that we all get-a-long and stifle our emotions for the betterment of the GNP. |
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floorten
United Kingdom
120 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 12:20:31
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Yeah, I agree TT. Except the whole thing goes wrong when the same workers have to take months off work with back pain at cost to the employer!
Listen to your emotions, folks! They're the single greatest guide you have, and they're tuned perfectly to your own life circumstances and desires. You ignore them at your peril.
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"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
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MikeJ
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 14:01:18
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Floorten is right about embracing anger. But I feel there's been a misunderstanding of Chris' post.
I don't think he implied "disowning" anger. And there's a clear distinction between safely expressing anger and having an angry, anxious and neurotic temperament. I wouldn't say Chris is necessarily an angry person, but is most likely just experiencing the effects of emotional contagions as explained above.
Being around negative people will trigger mirror neurons and it's only natural he "dislikes" being around them. That doesn't necessarily make him a negative and angry person.
quote:
It's precisely your striving for "balance" as dictated by various social rules and conventions that has caused this TMS in the first place. No one can live in modern life and not get angered by the pressure it causes.
If you have a happy disposition, you're not only healthier but your brain is better equipped at handling negative people and stressful situations. (which are bound to happen.) Angry people, on the other hand, are predisposed to have a low-tolerance to stress - so anything in modern life could set you off really!
quote:
Ditch balance. Embrace anger. It's the next necessary step on the road to healing. You don't have to stay there, but you will need to move through it.
I think we should be careful. Embracing anger is a necessary step, but it doesn't stop there. If you embrace your anger, that's great because you won't create additional friction. Sure, you have to accept what's already there. Fighting against it will make it worse. I don't think anyone's arguing that.
But you still need to gradually change your brain patterns, so you can be less prone to negative emotions. That takes hard work. Your brain is like a muscle and it takes time to change your brain patterns, but as science has shown, optimism and happiness is a skill worth developing. It makes the ride much smoother.
Just my 2 cents. |
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floorten
United Kingdom
120 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 15:21:02
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Yes, I'd never suggest you stay in the anger phase for any amount of time. What I was trying to get at is that it's a necessary transitional phase, and that you shouldn't think that just because you're going through it you're a "bad" person.
I think many well-meaning people people give the advice to "be positive" to depressed people, not understanding that positivity is at the complete opposite end of a spectrum that has to be traversed in smaller steps.
These steps may run something like: depression, annoyance, anger, rage, revenge fantasy, blame, pessimism, numbness, neutrality, sadness, grief, acceptance, hopefullness, optimism, happiness. The trouble is you simply can't skip many of these stages and jump straight to happiness!
Well-meaning advisors might say that they shouldn't embrace the anger or rage because it's "negative", but they can't see that it's actually a couple of steps further on than where the guy was stuck before. They may actually persuade him that anger is not the way, and then he'll sink back down into depression again. Do you get what I'm saying?
As for whether or not someone is an "angry person", I wonder what that really means. Someone who carries a lot of anger with them but only expresses it passively? Someone who is quick to anger but then it dissipates just as quickly? Or someone who lives permanently in the state of rage because they're addicted to the adrenaline rush?
Well, sufficed to say, that I think most of us fit in the first category, and I would class that as being an angry person, and class myself as one in that sense too! :-)
As for positivity, I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing is more important in life than your own positivity of outlook and personal happiness. Trying to run your life with your happiness only at 50% is like fighting an uphill battle, whereas when all your thoughts come from a place of joy, everything just seems to slide nicely into place.
peace,
greg
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"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
Edited by - floorten on 11/25/2006 15:25:08 |
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Chris Graeme
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 16:35:21
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Hmm
Ok I suppose I am angry a lot of the time deep down in various ways. but that is not how I like to be.
There are certain people that I know that are constantly grumpy and negative and they bring me down. There are others who are up and positive and I like to be around them and be stimulated.
I think I understand what you are all saying, but I'd stand by what I said...I don't want to turn into a negative grumpy person. however I see the need to recognise the grumpiness more than I do at present....but I don't want to stay there in the negative place. |
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MikeJ
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 16:36:33
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Yes, it's very true. Some people could misinterpret it and believe they shouldn't embrace anger then sink back down into depression again.
Thank you for clarifying and elaborating on it! Especially by sharing the steps needed to get there - that should help some people. Thanks floorten, great post. :) |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 04:27:34
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Great stuff. Thanks for all those references, Mike.
I think this thread hits on a key dilemma for us TMSers and in fact for almost everyone - many people share our make-up but use equivalents like addiction or just ****ty behavior to handle the unacknowledged unconscious rage.
The dilemma: not knowing that it is possible to FEEL stuff without EITHER repressing OR EXPRESSING it. I've found that it is not only possible but extremely blissful, because almost at the very moment of really being felt, feelings like anger transmute into energy. Anger transmutes into a feeling of power. Sadness and fear also transmute (into compassion and aliveness respectively).
One way that works well is journalling; as someone said, it allows you to acknowledge the deep dark stuff without hurting anyone or ruining your life. But I don't think this is the whole story for actually feeling feelings.
I'm frustrated because I know a lot about this -- it is what I do for a living every day, and I've spent my life developing methods to help others traverse this very point. I'm on this board to help heal myself, not to advertise (the one post in which I mentioned something I was doing got erased). However, I'm realizing that this has unconsciously frustrated the s**t out of me. I'm trying to be a "good" forum member. Concern about how I will be perceived is also active in me, which I am consciously releasing. It's none of my business what anyone thinks.
Now that I've had a bit of a rant, thanks again for the excellent thread.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 23:37:33
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Thanks Wavy, I think you nailed it. We've absolutely got to feel our emotions. If we truly feel them, we will move back and forth through them and not find ourselves stuck on the negative ones forever. But we might be stuck for a while because there's a big backlog to feel!
I don't think we will help our TMS by worrying about trying to be positive, because we nearly all have the type of personality that will try to feel happy even when our true self is not happy, if we think we are supposed to.
I've found The Drama of the Gifted Child, which is often recommended around here, to be a great source of understanding about the process of feeling and healing.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Why you should hang around happy people
