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Tyson R
Canada
4 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2006 : 09:42:40
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First of all, thanks for the information and support to my previous post. As I beat this, I hope to be able to contribute half as much of some of you.
I do believe in TMS as a condition. I believe I have TMS, But I have doubts right now as I am not seeing any progression (it has only been 5 days since I started my TMS path).
As instructed, I have gone back to read HBP 3 times. I have also read Sopher's ebook and The Mind Body Prescription. However, each time I read the books I am finding exclusionary symptoms and starting to doubt TMS.
Later today I have a follow-up appointment with a Neurospecialist. Typically it would take almost a year to see him, however, a friend got me the referal and I feel obligated to go to the follow-up.
So I am hoping to develop a strategy for the appointment that will help me solidify my self diagnosis, even if I can't convince him of TMS.
Here are my symptoms - case history;
- 3 years ago, an MRI diagnosed a severe 18MM herniation between L5-S1, and mild stenosis - I was able to subside/control pain through PT and exercise. I have been conditioning myself with a weak back since that time, so no bending, no long drives, ergonomic kneeling chair etc
- 8 weeks ago, pain became overwhelming. I got 'stiff' and have been unable to walk or sit. Essentially disabled. There was no accompanying injury
- Have done chiro, massage, physical therapy, inversion, NSAID, percocet, TENS, and ESI all with minimal relief
- The pain is a numbness/tingling that starts in both buttocks and includes genital area, extends down the back left thigh through calf and into foot. This converts to a hot burning sensation when walking or sitting
- The left calf is in constant spasm, causing a sharp pain when standing or walking
- There is muscle soreness in the buttocks and lower back
- There is muscle soreness on outside of left calf
- There is relief when lying down
Psychologically - I have a score of 255 on the Rahe stress test. I am a type A personality. I am an overachiever, however I am not a goodist or perfectionist as described by Sarno. I have one parent who was an emotionally abusive alcoholic.
I think I am a prime candidate for TMS, but cannot get an accurate diagnosis in my area. I am in Ontario, Canada.
So this afternoon I have the follow-up appointment and want to ask questions that will help me self-diagnose.
Sarno states that a 'pinched nerve' would become painless and have defect if it where actually impinged. Since I still have this tingling 8 weeks later, wouldn't my doctor have to concede TMS?
Because there is muscle tightness and soreness after 8 weeks, with no relief from painkillers or NSAIDs, there really isn't a healing going on. Hence this would prove TMS?
Is it safe to assume that ALL herniated discs and sciatica without violent injury or damage are TMS? So if he says that it is a herniated disc then voila it is TMS?
Are there other questions I can ask that will point towards a positive TMS diagnosis?
I am still rereading all the advice Stryder pointed out about accepting/ignoring pain. Thank you for that, every bit of convincing helps.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 10:45:20
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Tyson, if it's only been 5 days, you need to give yourself a break! These things can take time. It's easy for us as overachievers to extend that mentality to getting better, but that only provides yet another source of pressure for the angry inner child.
I would not look to the doctor to strengthen your confidence. Doctors are trained to find physical reasons for people's problems and they will try very hard to do so -- it is their job and they wouldn't want to miss a real problem, so it's often genuinely their best efforts to help. But they are not likely to suddenly accept a theory that they have never heard of before. The most you might ever get from a doctor is "I'm not sure why you have the exact symptoms you do." (I got that one a few times.)
FWIW, your symptoms do sound like TMS. I'm not sure what you mean about "exclusionary symptoms". Go to the neuro appointment if you want, but also try giving yourself a break. Keep on with the work to the extent you feel okay doing it. Make a list of your pressures and journal. Think about past stresses; try to really get into the meat of them. See what happens.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Tyson R
Canada
4 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 10:54:23
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Thanks for the reply;
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I am not looking for this Dr to agree with the TMS diagnosis. I think that would be asking alot.
I'm trying to find questions to ask, or results that would be substantiate the TMS diagnosis.
example; Sarno states that an impinged nerve would go numb, but I have tingling so must be TMS.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 11:06:12
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I don't think you will get the kind of answers you want to those questions...my point was that a doc will simply rationalize them away as he has been taught to do. Sarno is the only one who says that about pinched nerves. If you tell another doctor that, they will just give you whatever theory they learned, probably.
I even saw a chiro who knew about Sarno's theory and kept the books in his waiting room to lend to patients. But he never suggested them for me (I learned about them elswhere) and told me he thought that mechanical factors were still involved with me. Because I was 25 with a tiny range of neck motion. Guess what? Nope. I don't know if my ROM is better now -- I don't, frankly, care. I have no pain, and that's what I care about. But even this doc who knew Sarno still said that it was the computer making my neck tight!
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 12:39:12
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Tyson,
Don't tell the Doc about TMS. Western Medicine concentrates on 3 things.
1) Diagnosis
2) Perscribe Drugs
3) Perform Surgery
Don't expect your DR to look elsewhere, especially with Risk mgmt people constantly hounding him.
When all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. Your the nail.
Welcome to the board, and from your history, I can tell you have a lot of work to do. How much rage must you have surpressed to have been raised by one abusive alcoholic parent?
It takes time.
Make sure you're journaling.
Cheers,
Beth |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 16:11:35
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You will likely read this after your doc visit, but I agree with the previous 3 replies. You need to chill and try to remove your mind from the physical explanations and history. Its all no good to you at this point. Yes, you may have a doubt, but no doc is going to help you with that. TMS can be a long burn, it could take you weeks or months, not everyone gets instant relief from this.
Here is one thing though that you can take to the bank. Since you fit the profile, and you do not have a serious condition (you've already been checked out by the docs, right?), then TMS is the most likely DX (diagnosis) for you. Getting the right DX is the first step. Once you are in Sarno-land you will get better, provided you do the work. You should feel pretty good that now you are in control of your recovery and not the docs. If you follow the plan, then you will be writting success stories here on the forum in the not to distant future.
The reason you will get better is because there is nothing wrong with your body.
Take care, -Stryder |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 16:41:28
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TR,
I reccommend your read the Good Doctor's latest, THE DIVIDED MIND.
Good Luck,
tt |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 17:35:49
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You're not a perfectionist, you say? Reread your post: you found out about TMS 5 days ago and you've read 3 books, one of them 3 times, and you are doubting the diagnosis because you're not all better yet? Your post is as cold and clinical as you can get, including scores on a stress analysis; maybe I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but it's time to get in touch with what's going on in your emotional world, rather than focusing on the minutiae of your symptoms. You are also miles away from accepting TMS as your diagnosis (as evidenced by your description of your "weak back", among other things), so I would make that your first priority.
Not that either of those things is easy, but than again nothing about TMS is! You need to give yourself some time to digest all of this stuff. Stop reading more books and work on what you've got.
Good luck! |
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Tyson R
Canada
4 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 18:23:16
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Thanks everyone again, in just an afternoon I can not believe the support and information you have all shared.
So surprisingly the specialist was very open to the idea of the pain having psychosomatic roots. He agreed that there is a correlation between herniated discs and back pain, but this may not be a causal correlation.
He suggested an EMG test which could prove that there was no neural pathology, however, the test would take 6 weeks to get. (the great thing about Canada is the med system is free, however the not so great thing is the lines are long!)So this really wouldn't help me now.
We discussed Cancer, but really ruled it out due to no other symptoms, history or high lifestyle risks. Again I could get a test to prove it, but it seemed futile.
He seemed genuine that there could be TMS, however, he could only go by the technology at hand to diagnose what he knows he can prove/disprove. He actually described StarTrek (original series) medical scanners and how good it would be to have one of those, but until then he had to do what he could. At least he admitted the limitations he has.
Everything was going great! Until he decided to do a physical exam. He checked for reflexes and they were reduced compared to my last exam which had him concerned. However, I wasn't as concerned as I was able to walk into and sit in the waiting room where as last time I hobbled in and laid on the floor waiting for him.
So his concern is that there is 'serious' herniation. He has ordered an emergency MRI. Something that we typically wait for 3 months for but I should get one next week. This would either show negative/positive progression from my last MRI three years ago. If it showed positive then nothing to worry about, if it showed negative then a surgery consult.
His concern is that if there was a 'serious' hernation then there would be pressure against the sciatic nerve, which would have to be corrected.
But here is my thinking if it shows 'serious' hernation then this is abnormal but not causal so I have TMS. If it is positive or similar to my last MRI then everything is explained by TMS.
So either way I have TMS. Voila I have a diagnosis?
Am I thinking about this correctly? If the only standard 'medical' explanation for my pain is hernation and we know that hernation (no matter how bad) is not the cause of pain, then because I have pain I have to have TMS?
Had a great dinner out with my family tonight, I sat for an hour something I havent done in a long time. Progress....
------
On a side note, I listened to a song I hadn't heard in a while last night. Just Wait, by the Blues Traveler. If you know some one in pain this is an inspirational that was written directly for them.
It brought me to tears... I think I will listen to it nightly.
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Nor
152 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 19:32:36
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Tyson R
I rarely feel like getting into physical symptoms on this forum but I think you'll feel better if you hear my abbreviated "story". At 26 yo, I was diagnosed as having an L5-S1 disc herniation. I had all the symptoms, tingling/numbness/weakness/pain, etc. I associated it w/a problem lifting a paralyzed patient. (I am an occupational therapist.) Anyway, I went to a doctor who not only diagnosed my disc degeneration but also told me my scoliosis was severe enough to require surgery to correct it. (This is big surgery, 12-16 hours w/rods and screws, etc.) To make a long story short, I decided to hold off on surgery and found other ways of dealing w/the pain. Over time, it subsided a great deal. Of course at the same time, I've developed other TMS symptoms to take its place. The lesson here is: Yes, I have disc problems and scoliosis but neither problem is bad enough to require surgery. As soon as I decided to stop obsessing over surgery, my mind found other ways to play w/me. The end of the story is happy. I discovered Dr. Sarno's work and now I'm doing great- not perfect but much better. Oh, and btw, I'm 42 now and I lift heavy people at work all the time. If I use good body mechanics, I have no problems.
I'm not telling you what to do medically but if I were you, I'd not let the diagnosis determine your future...and stay away from reasearching diagnoses on the internet. It will not educate you, it will only frighten you.
Good luck.
Nor |
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2006 : 22:56:24
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Tyson,
Trust me we all understand your pain and your frustration w pain and the fear of never thinking it will go away.
Deep down you need to see a therapist a pyschotherapist. Highlight parts of the book that you relate to most and go over those things every night before bed.
HBP was the book that worked for me the best. Divided mind came out just as my pains were subsiding so I basically read half the book I will read the rest but its not priority anymore because my brain understood the "secret". Divided mind so far I beleive is the best book for your situation.
I too had pains in my groin area that came from around my back and worst of all I had chest pains that made me feel like I was having a heart attack for 2 years straight no breaks!
Sometimes you have to relive situations with people. Like if you had a abusive parent talk to someone who experienced this abuse too if this parent abused other ppl as well.
I had to spend time with my mothers husband to make the rage come faster. I hate my mothers husband he is abusive to me and my mom.
He no longer abuses me because i let him have it a few years ago roughly 7 and i hardly spoke to him since then.
I sat at the table with him and mom and saw how he was bossing her around and how he made fun on my girlfriend right to his face.
This made me upset and i have not visited my moms house since last january because of this. Afterwards i told my gf how i felt and she thought it wasnt a big deal beause he was joking around but i thought it was a big deal and i focused on that and old memorys of hatred for him thus leading me to my first pain free week in january of 06.
From now on you shouldnt refer to anyhting like L-6 or siatica. Only a doctor can rule out cancer etc.
Tell us now of how your day was and anything that reminded you of why you got this pain. Well really journal and tell this to your journal.
Write a book if you have too and get on with life. Its hard and scary but you have to trust us and remember its ok if you get pain its an idictor of where you are or how hard your mind is trying to keep something from you.
I went to 8 drs to get here trust me we know your pain.
Danny
ps:sorry for the bad grammer and punct iam writing this on my phone.
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Traditional Dr.'s Appt Today - I'm in doubt
