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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2006 : 13:50:54
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Basic question for you guys, how can we differentiate 'thinking' about something and 'feeling' about something ? This question seemed trivial to me in the past, but now I find it quite harder to solve.
what is the difference between smiling because we think about something happy and simply feeling happy ? Of course thinking about something happy will generate some internal biochemical reaction that we call a 'feeling'. But, what are the basic characteristics of a 'feeling' process compared to an emotional thinking process ? What 'physical sensation' should we focus on to 'sense' our feelings ? i.e. Lump in the troath ? , sensation of lightness ? . etc ?
Open question !
P.
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Kristin
98 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 14:10:18
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I am reading a fascinating book called "The Feeling of What Happens" by Antonio Demasio. He's a neurologist. The subtitle is something like Body and emotion in the making of consciousness. It's interesting, a bit academic, but not too bad.
My guess according to this book, is that feelings are a primary response to a stimuli, maybe what we think about our feelings is a matter of choice or conditioning depending on our awareness. Emotions are the public evidence of our feelings. Thinking might be tied up in reasoning and rationalization. I'm only on chapter two but I'm really enjoying this book reading it through TMS eyes. |
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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 13:46:20
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quote:
Basic question for you guys, how can we differentiate 'thinking' about something and 'feeling' about something ? This question seemed trivial to me in the past, but now I find it quite harder to solve.quote:
Not trying to be a smart ass here, but it would take a true thinker to ask a question like that! 
And I say that with sympathy, as another person who has spent too much of his life locked up in his head, thinking as opposed to feeling. It's a really good question too, despite sounding so simple.
Monte's blog seems to be addressing the this thinking/feeling question directly as it relates to TMS. To him, it's the key issue.
http://www.runningpain.com/blog.html
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 16:07:13
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I'm a very intellectual person, and I've noticed recently as I have more experience with my feelings, the following:
Thinking feels cooler and more distant. Emotions are close-up and sometimes feel HOT or very warm (body busy sending messages around I guess).
Emotions are very raw and powerful. Chances are if I'm feeling really in control, I'm thinking. If I'm being carried along, I'm feeling.
Thinking happens in coherent sentences/ideas. Feeling, if it involves words at all, involves short phrases, often very "loud" ones, and they don't usually "make sense" or have power when read later while thinking. Their meaning is in the feeling behind them.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 16:20:17
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thinking you do with your mind,
feeling you do with your heart |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 18:55:10
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Armchair,
you're going to have to change your name to Armchairtouchyfeely or something!
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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MikeJ
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2006 : 08:15:21
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| Kristin, that makes sense. Some people say that feeling is reaction, and thinking is proaction. |
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FlyByNight
Canada
209 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2006 : 09:30:15
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Peter, Yes I fully recognize this is my major issue .. I am a true thinker ... And now I am interested to see from 'feelers' how I can shift from the first state to the second one. I realise that over the last year I was doing 'emotional thinking' and not focusing on sensing the 'feeling' even if I let the anger came out a lot, cried a lot , etc.
The closest answer that I have to describe what a feeling is comes from Monte and I associate it to the word 'sensation'. So if a sensation is primarely a physical experience(lump in the throat, butterflies, etc), then feeling the 'pain' should be a form of focusing on particular feeling right ? so why trying to ignore the pain ???? ... Instead, I am begining to join the ones on the forum who pretend that we must not 'fight the pain' and not 'ignore the pain' , but 'become one with the pain by experiencing it without judging it'. Thats a tough one ...
I guess that's what ill try to do I for a while because fighting or ignoring the pain did not work for me.
PS: Peter , by the way the neurostab is still working ( 8 weeks) *wink* |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2006 : 00:07:20
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I've been working on TMS for nearly 2 years and would say I'm nearly cured.
When I started I considered myself a worrier - anxious thoughts rattling round my mind all the time, concern for family members, anxiety over what others were saying or thinking about me (though it was a while before I could admit that), stress about what I should be making time for or what I must do, for others or for self improvement (eg taking exercise, dieting, visiting elderly mother).
With much journalling, reading of self help books, thinking mindbody, introspection I discovered that I wasn't just worrying with my brain but that there was tension in my abdomen like a knot in my stomach which could reach all the way up to my chest. I was so involved in my TMS symptoms and worrying that somehow I hadn't been aware of this.
Now I'm at the stage of having lost most of the brain chatter and am much better at coping by not getting wound up over things I can't alter (eg other family members!) and use positive thinking - which seems impossible when you are totally taken up with TMS symptoms - to think good thoughts. Which sounds glib but with a lifetime of worrying it is a big achievement for me to switch from a bad thought (usually disappointment with myself because of something i've said or done or not done) to happy thoughts about how lucky I am (loving family, comfortable home, good health).
So in my view there is a big difference between thinking and feeling and that you can become aware of that with conscientious TMS work.
The knotted stomach feeling is still there, by the way,whenever I feel under pressure but not as strongly and it is an indicator that I need to deal with something, maybe think something through to work out why the anxious feeling or try to find time to relax and do some deep breathing as it's a situation I can't change.
Anne |
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Kristin
98 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2006 : 14:13:07
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Over 20 years ago I started on this path which led to the idea that if you only thought "good thoughts" everything would be okay, creating your own reality and all that. Whereas I do believe that you can visualize what you want to do and put those ideas into action in a productive way, it's not the same thing. The Buddhist idea of becoming observers of our thoughts and not attached to them, as if they are us, has been most helpful in recognizing both "good" and "bad" thoughts. Observant but free, so as to not become attached or judgemental. Then I guess you can make the bridge of thoughts to feelings and see how one affects the other. The goal is not to become emotionless but not to become a slave to emotions. We tend to think we make many informed decisions in our daily lives but often let our emotions run away from us. At least I do sometimes. I was raised in a family with little expression of real joy or real anger. In my attempt to make up for that later in life expressing anger became much easier to access. (I wonder why ; ) Next task for me is to learn to recognize happiness and joy. It's a bit difficult these days to come by but I'm sure it's out there!
To sum it all up, I think it's healthy not to take our feelings too personally.
p.s. The book I'm reading pointed out that feelings exist to warn us of danger, you know like instincts to survive in earlier eras, they are aids to survival. How much of that is relevant to our days now? We live pretty cushy lives but our survival mode is out of whack!
There are both real an imagined fears in the world today. What pisses me off most is that fear is being exploited as a tool for control. Just read what the CDC said about CFS, quote-unquote, take the drugs, three different kinds! ARGH!!!! And heaven forbid, don't take the natural substances. Sheesh. Two wrongs? |
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tootercat
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 09:33:34
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quote:
When I started I considered myself a worrier - anxious thoughts rattling round my mind all the time, concern for family members, anxiety over what others were saying or thinking about me (though it was a while before I could admit that), stress about what I should be making time for or what I must do, for others or for self improvement (eg taking exercise, dieting, visiting elderly mother).
quote:
Scotty Dog, boy did you hit a resounding nail on the head for me.
I am beginning to think that I have been living with TMS from birth. And for me the happier my situation is the worse the symptoms get. It's almost as if I feel guilty if I am not in some kind of pain or dealing with chaos. I have only recently become aware of TMS. My sister had been given Dr. Sarno's first book in an effort to help her and it didn't "fit" for her. Almost as an afterthought she passed it on to me and it made a whole lotta sense!
I am a recovering alkie so I am well aware of trading one "addiction" or "external solution" for another to avoid "feeling" feelings. I never thought of pain (life altering)as another "solution". I am hopeful and terrified at the same time. Hopeful that my back is NOT my enemy and terrified that my brain will not redirect it's power to affect me adversly.
I have no idea if I made any sense but I guess that's part of the the process to not be so perfect or critical in trying to express myself.
Oh lord....I'm scared....
Pam
=^..^= |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 12:29:44
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quote:
you're going to have to change your name to Armchairtouchyfeely or something!
Well, I did retake the Myers-Briggs test and turned from a Thinker to a Feeler! Very bizarre. But it accounts for my similarity to the other INFJs in my life.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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carbar
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 19:45:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Scottydog
Now I'm at the stage of having lost most of the brain chatter and am much better at coping by not getting wound up over things I can't alter (eg other family members!) and use positive thinking - which seems impossible when you are totally taken up with TMS symptoms - to think good thoughts.
Hmm. Thanks for writing this, Anne, it's an inspiration to keep going. I think it's just great to read that you consider yourself cured. I'm approaching year 1 of Sarno changing my life and I'm so happy to just be with myself. I just got Fred Amir's book and really take to heart the advice about positive thinking, so I'm glad you mentioned that.
Kristin, I love that quote, "observant, but free..." It's a pleasure to see myself in the objective, without being consumed by worrying. Or even if worry is nawwing away at me, I can observe it rather than cycle into anxiety...most of the time. Working on this is great, too.
I am struggling like FlyByNight to see the difference in thought and feeling. A lot of times for me, I feel a general dis-ease that includes physical symptoms, like a little headache or heavy stomach, and I realize that there's something I have to get to emotionally. Or I feel "confused" like I have a lot on my mind, and then I realize I have to access something to really "feel" a more straightforward emotion, like fear or anger.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 22:53:05
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quote:
Or I feel "confused" like I have a lot on my mind, and then I realize I have to access something to really "feel" a more straightforward emotion, like fear or anger.
Carbar, thanks for writing this. I feel like this a lot, that there's just too many things to deal with, I want to just curl up in a ball and I don't know what to do. I suspect I'll get a lot farther realizing that this is a sign that I'm walling something off that I need to attend to. (Makes sense -- I can't do what my inner self really wants to do if it's walled off, so I get confused about what TO do.)
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 01:03:36
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I just read something that seems to relate to this thread. (It’s in a book about finding the right mate—someone who will be compatible with you, that I got for my son.) While the information is about making decisions, I think that what it says about feelings can also be applied to the emotional work of TMS.
It says: “We know more than we can put into words. The knowledge that we have but can’t put into words is available to us through our feelings. Getting in touch with our feelings is the only way we can access that information. And it is often just that information that is most important to us for making the right decision.”
The book gives an example here, of rationally weighing the pros and cons of two options but still being unable to decide, so you flip a coin to choose one of the options, but then you get a funny feeling in the pit of your stomach and change your choice to the other option. It then says: “What just happened? The coin flip got you in touch with a feeling, and that feeling contained the information that enabled you to decide….
"A feeling is not purely mental, although it has a mental component. You experience a feeling, first of all, as a physical sensation in your body. The feeling may serve as information, even though you can’t articulate the feeling in words.
“…to focus on your feelings…get quiet, listen to your body, and become aware of the felt bodily sense that you’re experiencing. That felt sense could be something quite specific and localized, like a funny feeling in the pit of your stomach. Or it could be something you just feel in your body as a whole—something much more subtle that’s hard to describe in words….[This] is the beginning of a technique called ‘focusing.’ Focusing helps people use their feelings in dealing with personal problems and in making decisions.” The author emphasizes that you should not try to immediately think about the feeling or analyze it, but should try to focus on just feeling it for a while.
Another book I’ve read that talks about the physical expression of feelings is called “Emotions Revealed,” by Dr. Paul Ekman. He has studied facial expressions and found that the movements of the facial muscles in response to a particular emotion is universal—no matter what the location and culture of the people, the facial expressions for each emotion are always the same. But people learn to “mask” emotions that would be considered inappropriate or that would cause some sort of problem if they allowed their true emotion to be revealed. This author trains people to recognize what he calls “micro expressions” in others, those initial expressions that flit across a person’s face, showing their true feelings, which last only 1/5 of a second before the person can mask it. Since we can’t see our own faces, this probably isn't a useful way to recognize our own feelings, but when I read ACL’s comment about thinking being associated with a sense of control I realized that I don’t just mask my emotions to hide them from others, I mask my emotions even from myself so that I can feel in control.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 10:29:50
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quote:
The book gives an example here, of rationally weighing the pros and cons of two options but still being unable to decide
This happens to me sometimes, with big or small decisions. But other times, I make both complex, weighty decisions and small, inconsequential decisions like I'm just flipping a switch. I've always wondered what the difference is between those two cases. I guess in one case I'm in touch with feelings, and in the other I'm not.
Example: the instant I set foot on the campus of the university I went to, I knew that I wanted to go there, and that it was my first choice and that wouldn't change. My parents were skeptical, but it never did. And I never thought I'd have that happen -- I figured I'd be one of those who gets into 5 places and has to agonize at the eleventh hour.
Sometimes it happens after a lot of rational analysis. Eventually I just synthesize it all somehow and know what the right option is. That happened for grad school admission. I knew all the pros and cons, I'd gone over them, and eventually I just knew what I wanted to do. It wasn't a right-away "gut decision", but it came to me at an appropriate time.
But an example of the opposite: I was trying to decide whether to finish my master's degree while I had my TMS symptoms (RSI) still. At least three times I had this same crisis, and every single time I couldn't really make a decision easily. It's not hard to imagine that that's because I couldn't even come close to accessing all the feelings I had about the issue.
Sounds like a very good book, Littlebird. Thanks for sharing it!
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 17:31:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Scottydog
I've been working on TMS for nearly 2 years and would say I'm nearly cured.
When I started I considered myself a worrier - anxious thoughts rattling round my mind all the time, concern for family members, anxiety over what others were saying or thinking about me (though it was a while before I could admit that), stress about what I should be making time for or what I must do, for others or for self improvement (eg taking exercise, dieting, visiting elderly mother).
With much journalling, reading of self help books, thinking mindbody, introspection I discovered that I wasn't just worrying with my brain but that there was tension in my abdomen like a knot in my stomach which could reach all the way up to my chest. I was so involved in my TMS symptoms and worrying that somehow I hadn't been aware of this.
Now I'm at the stage of having lost most of the brain chatter and am much better at coping by not getting wound up over things I can't alter (eg other family members!) and use positive thinking - which seems impossible when you are totally taken up with TMS symptoms - to think good thoughts. Which sounds glib but with a lifetime of worrying it is a big achievement for me to switch from a bad thought (usually disappointment with myself because of something i've said or done or not done) to happy thoughts about how lucky I am (loving family, comfortable home, good health).
So in my view there is a big difference between thinking and feeling and that you can become aware of that with conscientious TMS work.
The knotted stomach feeling is still there, by the way,whenever I feel under pressure but not as strongly and it is an indicator that I need to deal with something, maybe think something through to work out why the anxious feeling or try to find time to relax and do some deep breathing as it's a situation I can't change.
Anne
I have been digging back in the archives for posts that speak to me, and this comment by ScottyDog (Anne) really does.
I am a worrier, too. I have always been a worrier, always anxious. I didn't realize till I started reading these forums that TMSers are often worriers.
Also, I have the knot in the stomach. Doing Claire Weekes' program I have been more aware of how tight my stomach muscles are. Whenever I notice, I consciously relax them.
Figuring out how to "feel" feelings rather than just thinking about them is still something I'm working on.
Gail |
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emotional thinking vs sensing our feelings
