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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
 Posted - 10/10/2006 : 07:16:37
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I would like to start a post that helps eveyone think psychologically, and not phyisically. If you have had success with TMS and want to share any comments or questions that helped you to uncover repressed emotions or life pressures feel free to post them.
I'll start out by saying, we tend to want things to happen the way we would like, for life to be perfect, but life never seems to be fair. What has happened, or is happening in your life that is hindering your life from they way you would like it? |
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PainFreeinNC
11 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2006 : 12:05:49
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I've got a business partner that has taken complete leave of his senses and his morals. The slow, grinding process of instigating and proceeding with a lawsuit in order to recover my investment is tremendously trying on my patience and my nerves. Some days I get along like nothing's wrong, other days it weighs heavily on me.
When feeling a little back/neck flare up I try to identify sources of stress, worry, and things that make me angry. Almost invariably this situation is at the TOP of the list. I remind myself, day by day, like all things this will pass, live in the moment.
And this WILL pass, but the weight and time it takes is challenging. I'm doing pretty well though and constant vigilance over my mental health is paramount. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 04:37:09
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Good idea. I just woke up at my usual 3-4 am time and I'm doing my usual computer flurry before going back to sleep. I went to sleep after reading Say Goodnight to Insomnia, which was recommended here on the board.
So what does "Think psychologically" actually mean? I'm noticing that there is a delicate balance between realizing that I'm sad, angry, afraid, etc. about something in my life, and getting into the story of how that is making me sad, angry afraid...
For example as I think I wrote here, even after having a breakthrough in my health last year (very Sarnoesque but pre-Sarno) I went to see my dying father in England and came back with pneumonia and a recurrence of my bad fibro that lasted for months. Read The Divided Mind and in the middle of the night woke up with fibro, decided to figure out what I was FEELING and realized that there had been a wave of anger that had wanted to come up and move through and out of me with the thing with my dad, and that I had DISTRACTED myself by being ill.
I was better the very next day!
But it wasn't just getting into what a meanie my dad had been in my life that made me better. it was this subtle combo that we work with here of REALIZING that this event had triggered something (older) and that I had not wanted to fully feel it and done "ill" instead.
It doesn't help to get stuck in a victim mode thinking how awful it was not being acknowledged by dad for much of my life. Yet when I even write that I'm noticing that I have guilty thoughts like "what if his wife reads this forum?" Noticing that I feel guilty about that is the trick. I felt guilty when those feelings came up - what if everyone sees that I'm really angry as well as sad? The guilt chose illness as its means of distraction. Coulda been a whiskey if I drank, chocolate if that was my thing. A new bf.
Or all of the above.
So my point (and I do have one) is that realizing what you are really feeling is the point. Very often you need to delve around the story of what goes on in your life for the "meaning" that gives rise to this feeling in you. But it doesn't really give rise to the feeling, it just triggers it, and it's really good to let go of beliefs about the thing/ person in question once you get the Holy Grail of the FEELING.
Once you find the feeling, you then have to actually feel it. I know this forum impies otherwise - that just KNOWING that the feeling is there will suffice, but in fact just knowing the feeling is there often pops the bubble of it enough that you feel it at least a little and become willing to feel it. The trick is, I think, to keep allowing the feeling to move through without having to keep say "it was all his fault," because that gets you trapped in the belief level of things where you're projecting your own inner stuff out there.
And that lasts forever
she said,
realizing it's bedtime again
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 04:46:15
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Good idea. I just woke up at my usual 3-4 am time and I'm doing my usual computer flurry before going back to sleep. I went to sleep after reading Say Goodnight to Insomnia, which was recommended here on the board.
So what does "Think psychologically" actually mean? I'm noticing that there is a delicate balance between realizing that I'm sad, angry, afraid, etc. about something in my life, and getting into the story of how that is making me sad, angry afraid...
For example as I think I wrote here, even after having a breakthrough in my health last year (very Sarnoesque but pre-Sarno) I went to see my dying father in England and came back with pneumonia and a recurrence of my bad fibro that lasted for months. Read The Divided Mind and in the middle of the night woke up with fibro, decided to figure out what I was FEELING and realized that there had been a wave of anger that had wanted to come up and move through and out of me with the thing with my dad, and that I had DISTRACTED myself by being ill.
I was better the very next day!
But it wasn't just getting into what a meanie my dad had been in my life that made me better. it was this subtle combo that we work with here of REALIZING that this event had triggered something (older) and that I had not wanted to fully feel it and done "ill" instead.
It doesn't help to get stuck in a victim mode thinking how awful it was not being acknowledged by dad for much of my life. Yet when I even write that I'm noticing that I have guilty thoughts like "what if his wife reads this forum?" Noticing that I feel guilty about that is the trick. I felt guilty when those feelings came up - what if everyone sees that I'm really angry as well as sad? The guilt chose illness as its means of distraction. Coulda been a whiskey if I drank, chocolate if that was my thing. A new bf.
Or all of the above.
So my point (and I do have one) is that realizing what you are really feeling is the point. Very often you need to delve around the story of what goes on in your life for the "meaning" that gives rise to this feeling in you. But it doesn't really give rise to the feeling, it just triggers it, and it's really good to let go of beliefs about the thing/ person in question once you get the Holy Grail of the FEELING.
Once you find the feeling, you then have to actually feel it. I know this forum impies otherwise - that just KNOWING that the feeling is there will suffice, but in fact just knowing the feeling is there often pops the bubble of it enough that you feel it at least a little and become willing to feel it. The trick is, I think, to keep allowing the feeling to move through without having to keep say "it was all his fault," because that gets you trapped in the belief level of things where you're projecting your own inner stuff out there.
And that lasts forever
she said,
realizing it's bedtime again
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 17:06:02
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I agree with Wavy, I have been very aware of Sarno's theory............let me re-phrase that, undeniable fact! :-), for many years now. However just knowing, as he suggests, hasn't worked for me. Recently I've really started to dig around and try see how certain things make me feel. So at night when I journal, it's more like a book of feelings. I ask myself how things make me feel, then I ponder, then I write about it. I'll pick all sorts of random things to investigate. Some days it's harder than others as I think nothing much has happened really, I was cool with everything as it was a normal day. This is when you have to dig the most, how do you feel about work, woman, what someone said. The most amazing thing about this is, you get into the habit of writing about your feelings at night. Even better, you learn to focus on how you feel about things durring the day so you can write about it at night. You shift your thoughts from pain to feelings so easily. This may seem very obvious for some of you, but it's taken me a while to understand this (daaer I is verwy cwever I am) and be able to investigate my feelings. I believe the mind has a way of making you NOT understand this as another layer of protection. Oh and watch those negative thoughts, turn them into positive thoughts. I have been doing this for about a week now and I must say things have got much better. I'm not completely pain free YET, but for the first time have control over how intense it's going to be. I just need to keep digging. I can't wait to start my healed post........watch this space.
Darko |
Edited by - Darko on 10/11/2006 17:08:55 |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 06:22:50
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| People who repress shame seem to have trouble asking for help, they feel they have to do things alone. Do you feel shame when you need help? |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 10:33:15
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| I have a TMS type personality possessing a strong desire to control my immediate environment and get very upset when I cannot. In that sense I am in direct opposition with reality which leads to my own personal suffering. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 10/13/2006 13:47:15 |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 11:44:41
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| Shawn, I'm the same way. I just went through a series of job interviews, and wanted the position a lot. It came down to me and another person, and I didn't get it. I have been running through my mind what I did wrong, why didn't they want me, this ain't fair, etc. I was blaming myself. I felt like I needed to control the situation. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 13:55:03
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re: not getting the job
The thing is, if I were in such a situation, I would seek to rationalize things and say "oh well, I did not get the job, and it's for the best for me overall." This is what society would expect of me.
But another part of me would be fuming angry and would not be so stoic. I would see it, in fact, as another blow to my low self-esteem and a confirmation that everyone is either better than me or has some kind of advantage over me. In other words, I would take it as a personal dissing or commentary on my self worth which would contribute to my inner rage.
It is a horrid way to go through life thinking like this, but the sad reality is this is how I think deep inside, but yet I am expected to remain calm and not take it personally. I link this all back to the break up of my parents when I was 14. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 15:06:04
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quote:
I would seek to rationalize things and say "oh well, I did not get the job, and it's for the best for me overall."
People used to encourage me to take this perspective a lot when I was looking for jobs. I found it extremely irritating. Sometimes we need to vent and be upset.
Unfortunately we also don't need to do what so many of us do, me included...feel like we are not good enough, like we should be in control and never fail.
It does suck to feel that way, and I think that's something that Sarno doesn't really address in his suggestions (nor should he necessarily, I'm just saying he doesn't). It is all excellent to prevent TMS recurrences by just remaining aware of this and expressing the feelings, but the feelings still really suck, so I wish there was some way to really change them. Haven't figured out if there is yet. :(
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 15:28:19
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2scoops, thanks for that comment about people who feel shame having trouble asking for help. That puts a new spin on some of my feelings. I've often had the attitude that I shouldn't have to ask for help, the people close to me should see that I'm trying to do too much or that I'm struggling emotionally with something and should be willing to pitch in and help me.
I also hesitate to ask for help because I see in my family members' body language and hear in their tone of voice that they don't really want to help and so I feel torn between how I'll feel when I get that reaction to my requests for help and how I'll feel when I have to do things all on my own. I frequently end up opting for just doing things myself. Plus they don't always do a good job on the task, which I see as resistance to helping me, so then I feel upset about that too.
I'll have to give more thought to just why your statement about shame resonates so much with me, because I'm not quite sure why needing or wanting help would cause me to feel a sense of shame, but I do think this idea could lead me to something important. Thanks again for posting it. |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2006 : 19:19:01
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| Littlebird, your welcome. If that statement, hit you like it hit me, I strongly recommend you read The Shame That Binds You and Homecoming by John Bradshaw. They should be available and both have given me some great points to think about. I have lived with shame my whole life and it's a big part of my TMS, if not the main big reason. Hope this helps you as much as it did me. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 07:06:50
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I also hate asking for help and feel I should at least try and figure things out for myself before asking.
quote:
I've often had the attitude that I shouldn't have to ask for help, the people close to me should see that I'm trying to do too much or that I'm struggling emotionally with something and should be willing to pitch in and help me.
I used to do that. But the guilt factor never works. People don’t like to be made to feel guilty – they see it as a form of criticism, which it is. It’s also manipulative. It just drives people away.
Also, you can’t assume that what is obvious to you is obvious to everyone else, or even your nearest and dearest. It’s very important to learn to communicate our feelings without making the listener feel responsible for them. You are responsible for your feelings and it’s important to learn to take responsibility for them.
We’re not taught how to communicate our feelings, and I think this is particularly relevant to TMS-er’s. We’re also not taught how to live in a relationship. There seems to be an assumption that if you love someone then everything will be perfect. But there’s far more to a successful relationship than that.
I highly recommend “Nonviolent Communication” by Marshall B. Rosenberg.
John Gray also writes about taking responsibility for communicating your feelings in his books on relationships (e.g. “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”).
Another excellent book on communication, very readable, is Dale Carnegie’s classic, “How to Win Friends and Influence People”.
Learning how to communicate isn’t an overnight process. It takes time.
I’ve just been reading the first few pages of “Homecoming” by John Bradshaw on Amazon and it looks very interesting. I may get that.
Hilary N |
Edited by - HilaryN on 10/14/2006 07:07:10 |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 09:17:19
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"We’re not taught how to communicate our feelings, and I think this is particularly relevant to TMS-er’s. We’re also not taught how to live in a relationship. There seems to be an assumption that if you love someone then everything will be perfect. But there’s far more to a successful relationship than that."
Wow this statement really hit home with me. If you love someone, everything shuld be perfect. You souldn't have to share your feelings and emotions, because if two people love one another, they should know what the other is thinking and there shouldn't be any anger. I used to think that way.
HillaryN, if you plan on getting Homecoming, I strongly encourage you to get Healing the Shame That Binds You, by John Bradshaw as well, those books compliment themselves. They have, IMHO, have opened up the causes of my TMS. They deal with the causes of shame, guilt, feelings of inadaquecy and anything else we maybe repressing.
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2006 : 15:49:56
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The hard part to accept for me is that I could love someone and yet possess internal unconscious rage towards them at the exact same time. The hard thing for me to understand is how can I have emotions that I don't even feel? And yet, the fact is these emotions are there threatening to come to the surface.
I was journaling the other day about possible anger towards my wife and I wrote the question "How can be angry at _______?" The question actually made me cry. I know that I am dependent on her for many tihing and that I don't like this. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2006 : 07:29:55
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Thanks, 2scoops. I’m going to CT for a week’s holiday soon, so maybe I’ll get them to read on the flight.
Hilary N |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2006 : 07:40:45
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My wife and I made a good insight last night while doing a Byron Katie (the work.org) worksheet on our sometimes noisey neighbours. I mentioned earlier that I get really agitated and angry when my apartment neighbours make noise from their apartment that I can hear. I find it very disturbing and have a difficult functioning. But we discovered that in the past when I face this type of problem, once I got to actually know my neighbour personally and established friendly relations with them, the noise actually did not bother me at all. I was thinking that if my mom were living upstairs from me I would not be aggravated by any noise she makes, and the same would be true by other relatives also. In addition, my mom roars like a lion when she snores, but when I am home to visit her it does not bother me in the least. Go figure.
Any further insights from board members? It appears to me, however, that the problem is no just the noise but goes much deeper. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2006 : 08:17:00
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Yes, I'm much less irritated by things people do if I've had friendly face-to-face contact with them.
Hilary N |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2006 : 16:39:31
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2scoops, should one of the Bradshaw books be read before the other? I'm ordering them together, but if you think there's a best order for reading them, I'll take your advice.
Hilary N, I appreciate your observations about communication. While I knew from watching my parents and my older brothers in their marriages that good relationships take a lot more than love, I've still had a hard time figuring out just what it does take. I went from arguing like a couple of siblings with my first husband to being afraid to complain or argue with my second (current) one. I know there's a middle ground, a place where I can voice feelings without fear of driving people away or of being ignored and hurt.
I guess it seems less painful to not voice a feeling or need if I expect it to be ignored or devalued. My first husband's response was often that I shouldn't feel whatever it was I felt.
I know on an intellectual level that I can't assume that what's obvious to me is obvious to others, but I do hesitate to tell people what I'm feeling or what I need more than once, like I think they should get it the first time. It's that same fear of rejection or dismissal.
Shawnsmith, your comment about not liking to feel dependent on your wife is interesting. I wonder how common it is for people to feel dependence in their relationships, and whether all dependence ought to be viewed as unhealthy to the relationship or if some is ok. In my family I've seen some people confuse dependence and love--thinking that having the feeling that they need someone must mean they love that person. Not that a person can't feel both dependence and real love, but I think it must be best to recognize the difference between the two.
This has been an imformative and thought-provoking thread for me. |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2006 : 17:37:24
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Hillary, your welcome. Littlebird, I am reading them together, so I really don't recommend one or the other first. I have gotten really good insight from both and they both have given a better insight into the causes of my TMS. I was so responsible as kid, waking myself up in the first grade, catching the school bus, homework, etc. I never had help. I acted perfect, never any trouble at school, grades were always okay or good. It's really all coming to me. I'm dealing with something that has been passed on from generation to generation.
I did an informative speech last Thursday for my speech class and chose to do TMS. I thought eveyone was pretty resposive and even had some come up to me and ask questions. one lady's daughter was cutting, another student's mom had fibromyalgia. This stuff is real and it's good to make the connection. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2006 : 11:48:30
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Re the difficulty of love plus unconscious rage, I find it even harder to deal with feeling unconscious rage toward my boyfriend than toward my parents. Maybe because I have begun to understand the complications of a parenting relationship but still hope that a partner relationship can be easier. But I guess it's not.
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Wherever you go, there you are. |
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Thinking Psychologically
