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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
 Posted - 07/10/2006 : 13:18:35
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| As I am sitting here, trying to think Psychological instead of wondering WHY my neck is tightening even more I felt some vertigo or slight dizziness...Can stress/TMS cause that too? A year and a half ago when i had that bad high speed adjustment to my neck i came home and every time i turned in bed the whole room was spinning...It was beyond a nightmare...A friend who was a cranial sacral specialist 'fixed' the dizziness generating from my neck...Thank God i don't have that turning in bed thing anymore...But...I am wondering why i feel so lightheaded just sitting here...I could maybe use a little more sleep...and I am coming off a major sugar binge...so i suppose it could be sugar withdrawals...but didn't Dr. Sarno mention something once about dizziness also being a TMS equivalent?? |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 13:28:19
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| I had horrible bouts of dizziness as an equivalent symptom. Go to the archives and look up posts by Laura. It was a common thread here at one time. I really think your upcomming exhibit is causing your flare up. That kind of thing really does it for me. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 13:40:10
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| You are probably right Susie...And I am really still in the flare up from 6 weeks ago..Trying to come out of it I mean...I am pushing myself more and more to exercise and whatever i can without being in danger...I drove to the park today to walk, but had to go very early when there weren't alot of cars since i cannot look left and right to turn...Now as i am typing..the left fingers had that terrible sharp pain in them...GEEZ...yesterday was such a better day then today...Hope I didn't overdue things yesterday...I did more then i had in 6 weeks..My roomie brought me to the library too to check out the space i am going to be exhibiting in..It was a very far drive..but i made it..I don't want to be soooo fragile...AHHHHhhhhh this is driving me nuts! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 14:34:50
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Karen,
The Good Doctor Sarno, references "dizziness" on pages 15, 26, 138, 231, of THE DIVIDED MIND. Given the context of your dizziness symptom, it is almost assuredly TMS.
Karen, if I may kiddingly reccommend, that you do a little less typing, before you get CTS as a symptom imperative  . Get Sarno's newest book, THE DIVIDED MIND. Immerse yourself in it, until you can quote it by rote--word for word. If you do that all your concerns will be addressed.
Regards,
tt |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 15:39:12
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Thanx CJB.. You always help me...
And Tom, I have Divided Mind but I am finished Fred Amir's and Dr. Sopher's books first b4 digging in...As for me doing too much posting, that was funny the way you put it, i must admit...and no offense taken..:)
But...as I may have mentioned b4, I am feeling very alone and isolated these days...These little interactions on here w/ real humans have been helping me in more ways then one...When someone infers i am posting too much, it just embarasses me and makes me feel uncomfortable..I am coping the best that I can given my situation..B4 this neck bout, 6 weeks ago..when i was able to drive and live my life...i would not have had the time to spend so much time on the computer..Being stuck home, it is my one contact w/ the outside world...and rather then be embarassed or beat myself up for posting so much, I would rather be kind and understanding to myself and know that I won't Always be doing this...I am also wondering, btw, who?? was the person (from this forum) who spoke to my therapist about me, hmm? Whoever did, that was very inappropriate... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 18:33:30
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Hi Karen,
Why would you find it inappropriate for someone to talk to Don Dubin about you? You are telling everyone on the planet about yourself already ! Actually I find that quite amusing. It wasn't me, but I wouldn't fault anyone for it. The TMS world is a small community. In fact, I believe I might have asked you to say hi to Don for me, he's a tennis player also. And I'm sure your situation was not used with any malice and with only a concern for you getting through your most recent bout of TMS.
I would reccommend sticking with Sarno's books first and go to THE DIVIDED MIND immediately. This board is about TMS and the man who knows it best is the Good Doctor himself. All the issues you are asking about are abundantly explained in his latest book. I've only read about 30 pages and am bouyed in my re-discovery of his ideas as if it were an eppiphany.
I have seen this watering down of the message and the mission of The TMS Forum by the numerous other books that have been reccommended here. I'm sure thay are great tomes in thier own right but they become just another TMS distraction.
All the books Peter MacKay reccommended and read, in the end, did him no good here. He had a major meltdown.
Dr. Ziggles said something very wise in this regard recently:
"...consistency helps you dig deeper rather staying at surface level."
And I am not beating you up for posting so much here. No one has to read your posts or respond. But since we're all TMS goodists we do and want to help, that's how our buttons were installed--but we can also get frustrated when for all our suggestions we are not sure they are being listened to or followed.
Karen, at some point you will have to decide, if you are here to meet pen-pals or to get better. You can do both, but I for one, would like to see you make more progress on understanding TMS fundamentals, so you can get the heck out of that house, and start enjoying the great outdoors and maybe take a road trip to Jersey.
Your TMS pal, (sincerely),
tt 
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Edited by - tennis tom on 07/10/2006 18:37:34 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 20:00:05
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Thank you Tom...You are a very kind man and I do appreciate your words of wisdom...I have the Divided Mind and have been reading the treatment chapter as well as the other books...Maybe i should just start that book from the first page and get through it..Good advice as always... |
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bdystore
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 23:00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
Thanx CJB.. You always help me...
B4 this neck bout, 6 weeks ago..when i was able to drive and live my life..
What the heck happened 6wks ago? It must have been very traumatic to cause such a debilitating reaction. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 00:47:38
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Hi Karen,
Thanks for accepting my post as I sincerely meant it, as heartfelt help. I've seen a great improvement in you and a turn around. In THE DIVIDED MIND, Dr. Sarno says about depression, that it can be cured through a program of psychotherapy and exercise.
I proved this true myself. To come out of my recent "significant depression", it took psycho-therapy and about two weeks returning to exercise on a daily basis, to BEGIN to return to feeling my "normal self" again. I began with swimming and then picked up my tennis game again, where I had left off. In the midst of my depression, I thought I would never play the game again.
Karen, in order to return to the life-style you once had you must return to regular exercise, building up to 30 minutes a day and MEMORIZE Sarno until you can quote him by rote, word for word.
Best Wishes,
tt |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 08:32:50
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Thanx Tom,
I cannot wait til I can play tennis again, it's been 3 years now since I could not, between neck and knee...As for depression, thank goodness I am not chemically or clinically depressed..my depression when it hits is totally from what I am dealing w/ in my environment..namely the physical pain...that gets me every time...and the not being able to live my normal life...I am exercising 30 min. now...In fact, even though i will have to turn my entire torso and face my car in the opposite direcetion when turning, i am going to the park in a few minutes...I will walk for 30 min. slowly but that's ok..later i can pick up speed...I will also go back to the gym tomorrow to lift weights in my lower body...Not ready to do upper body yet cuz I want to follow Sarno's advice re. doing that when the pain is almost gone..I am going to read the Divided Mind today and paint as well...Thanks buddy!
Hugs,
Karen |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 08:43:50
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quote:
As for depression, thank goodness I am not chemically or clinically depressed
I hate to say but this is just more evidence that you just don't get it yet.
Depression is a TMS symptom. It serves the same purpose as the pain. Just as TMS neck pain is not caused by a structural defect, depression is not caused by a chemical defect.
For sure, "chemical imbalances" are responsible for the symptoms, and there are plenty of drugs that serve to correct this imbalance. Modern medicine would have you believe that the disease, suffered by millions, is the chemical imbalance -- that all these people suffering from depression are all victims of a brain gone haywire for no good reason.
The TMS view is that the checmical imbalance is a purposeful reaction by the brain to thwart repressed emotions from rising to the surface. The unconscious mind deems depression to be safer than experiencing those dangerous emotions. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 09:56:12
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Dave,
That is interesting...I didn't know that...You clearly have alot more knowledge and experience in this then I do..So it shouldn't be a surprise that I am still learning...Thanks for pointing this out...
~Karen |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 10:26:40
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| Don't want to beat a dead horse here, but it's all in the book. And this is why I'm curious (and maybe a bit frustrated) because reading (and re-reading, and re-reading...) and comprehending Dr. Sarno's book(s) is clearly the most important step in TMS recovery. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 10:33:44
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| I know Dave, I understand your frustration..But I also know that I am not the only one who has read the books and yet still has some struggles/doubts fully accepting the diagnosis...The brainwashing of the white coats can be really hard to clear out of one's system...I am working hard on this, I assure you...maybe even too hard...As I do realize that I am on this forum far too often out of my own loneliness living in a town where I barely know anyone...It is very refreshing to be on a forum with people who understand TMS..I am learning so much and I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to get out of my own head and way and just ACCEPT 100 percent the TMS DX...really I do...Tom pointed out that I should temporarily put the other TMS books aside and just read the Divided Mind..I am going to take his advice on this... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 10:46:22
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Mornin' Karen,
GOOD ! You're on the right track. I would prefer that you change your priorities to put reading THE DIVIDED MIND at the TOP of your to-do list, rather than at the bottom, but at least you got the message and you are reading it.
From your post, I gather a sense of not living in the NOW. You are alluding a lot to the future: "can't wait to play tennis...picking up speed...". Don't set up a strawman-gremlin that will knock you down when you DON'T accomplish all the goals you are setting up for yourself.
I subscribe to the K.I.S.S. principle--"keep it simple stupid". Read Sarno and exercise. As Drziggles said, "consistency" will help you "dig deeper". Don't create a laundry list of future expectations that are unobtainable and set yourself up for another TMS fall--another TMS distraction from living in the now.
My depression was clinical, and a TMS affective equivalent. I witnessed, as it was occurring, first-hand, the primary and secondary gains, I was rewarding myself with--but felt powerless to do anything to stop, during the free-fall. Depression allowed me to get out of doing things I did not want to do--it was the excuse. I sloughed off tasks onto my brother.
In retrospect, my loving girl-friend "helped" me, but now I feel a resentment that she ENABLED me to create and remain in my depressive state. The best thing for me would have been to HAVE to get out and do the basics of daily survival, like shopping for food, doing the laundry, taking out the garbage, etc.
I could have done these minimal tasks, but she "nursed" me and helped create a hospital like setting for me. The only thing that prevented me from becoming a total vegtable, was having to get out, and do my two psycho-therapy sessions a week. I became very paranoid about driving and overly careful, which can also create road accidents. In reality I am an excellent driver. Depression put me under an unrealistic self-view--a distorted, psychological, electron microscope.
I do miss some of the positive things about being in a clinicaly depressed state, like watching a LOT of TV and being very well informed. Also, watching Cramer's Mad Money. Now I hardly get to see him anymore.
Hope this helps--it did me,
tt
p.s.
To get back to normal activity, try going to the edge of your pain and listen to it. Back off slightly to the point at which you can bear it. Do ten reps slowly. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 10:55:12
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Thanx TT! Love your posts! You always help me...Fred Amir talks about setting short term and long term goals in his book "Rapid Recovery from Neck and Back Pain.." That is why I was thinking ahead of myself..I have to believe and imagine that i will play tennis again or I will REALLY get depressed...
I so appreciate your openness in sharing about your own experience...It is very 'real' and I need to be more 'real' and definintely more in the NOW...
The trouble is that my NOW is not very good...ie..physical pain, cabin fever, money issues, loneliness...So my natural inclination is to want to escape the pain in any way I can...I am wise enough by now to know that I cannot escape the emotional pain without dire repercusions in my body...so i am pressing on with the introspection...and it is scary and exciting at the same time...
I have put Divided Mind at the top of my list..that and my walking...
Hugs to you,
Karen |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 11:16:42
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K,
Your're undoubtly feeling whip-sawed by all the advice you are getting. It would be much preferable if you had but one Guru as a guide through this difficult period. This is inevitable if you put yourself out on the www. You are open-season for advice, from amateurs like me. You will have to pick and choose what will work and not conflict.
My basics : read Sarno and exercise with attention.
If you pay attention to anyone's post let it be Dave's.
On one of Shechter's tapes, Don Dubin says, the most sessions it took to "cure" someone of TMS was 15.
Good luck,
tt
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redskater
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 11:59:17
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the one thing I tend to disagree with Sarno on is waiting until the pain is almost gone to resume physical activity. To me, if is there is nothing structurally wrong why wait. If I had waited till the pain was almost gone I would probably still be waiting. I had to jump in with both feet and go for it. Yea, sometimes it hurt worse while I was doing the activity but it never stayed that way and I would always wake up no worse for wear. This is just how I experianced it, but it got me back to living a lot quicker. I liked Fred's book it really helped me to conquer the fear, but you have to really understand Sarno's books to get it to soak into your subconsious.
Gaye |
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h2oskier25
USA
395 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 12:33:06
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Hi Karen,
I agree with Red Skater. The pain is Benign in nature, so exercise away. I never had problems working out. I always did that, it was my J.O.B. that I felt I had to restrict my motions at.
I agree that it's open season for advice from all. Pick your guru.
Since you and I have SUCH a similar background and current situation (It's almost freaky), and I've been cured over 8 months, I'm a good candidate. Gee, I feel like I'm applying for a job. I'm a real team player . . .
Hugs
Beth |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 13:52:21
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You guys are all so great...I mean it...I feel teary eyed right now because I am soooo touched by your caring and supportive msgs..Thank you TT, Beth (my new sis!) and Gaye, really thank you! I think I will pick ALL of you as my guru, Dave and the rest too, lol! I have learned something valuable from each and every one of you, truly...I just got back from driving a short distance to the park and then TCBY for yogurt...The walk was very good, but I had to talk to myself several times...I felt pain in the left index finger and my first thought was "Oh no, that is the C6-7 disc region..." I caught myself and said instead "STOP IT YOU TMS GREMLIN...I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!" and i kept w/ my walk..Then i had a pain in my right calf..and the right side of the neck, different area then usual..And I thought "Holy Cow this things is STUBBORN!!!! Kind of like ME!" And i kept going and did 25 minutes in the heat..I survived...
Listen to this..I met this elderly couple in their late 80's...85 and 89 years old at the park..They were walking around in a circle where there was shade..We spoke for a long time...I love older people, used to work in a nursing home once as a recreation therapist..was a blast...Well...I was watching them and quite inspired by them...Their necks and backs seemed FINE!!!! They had had other health challenges and realized that all the worrying got them nowhere! I remember Dr. Sarno saying that most TMSers are in their 30's and 40'...Well...I am in my 40's so i am right in there...I could see the gentlemen's neck juding (sp?) forward and was thinking "Gee, I bet his neck doesn't have a great perfect curve in it either,, yet he is pain free and moving it freely in all directions..no restrictions.." We spoke a while...and turns out that they never had children...How interesting for that generation! They loved to travel and never wanted to be bogged down w/ kids...It made me feel better about the fact that I don't have any, I am not the only one! They were a joy to speak with...
Then I kind of pushed it too much because I drove to TCBY...There were these sweet teenagers working there...I know I had some feelings aobut seeing them because my teen years were pretty good overall...My parents were still married to one another til later teen years..They were alive and well...i was living with them and doing great in high school...I was relatively happy...So seeing those kids reminded me of when i was that age and I felt a sort of nostalgia and sadness come over me a bit...I went on my merry way and when i was going to turn into the street my neck was stuck even more then usual...It was pretty scary...It hurt like heck and was terribly tight in the back of my skull and very top of the neck esp. on the right..I keep thinking to myself...OKAY WHAT IS GOING ON KAREN, WHAT ARE YOU FEELING!?
Anyway, made it home and tried some other things to bring relief and then came here to see if any of my pals wrote me...What a journey this whole thing is... |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 14:19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by redskater
the one thing I tend to disagree with Sarno on is waiting until the pain is almost gone to resume physical activity. To me, if is there is nothing structurally wrong why wait. If I had waited till the pain was almost gone I would probably still be waiting. I had to jump in with both feet and go for it. Yea, sometimes it hurt worse while I was doing the activity but it never stayed that way and I would always wake up no worse for wear.
I agree, if you're at the point where you have truly repudiated the structural diagnosis, and banished at least most of the fear that you may bring on an injury by performing physical activity.
If you're not there yet, the fear of injury could fuel the TMS, making the symptoms even worse, and adding doubt.
I remember the first time I worked out at the gym despite having lower back pain. As I was doing leg presses I was thinking to myself, "Take that, brain! Go ahead, bring on the pain! I don't care. I know it's not structural and this exercise will not make it worse." |
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Vertigo or Dizziness
