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larkascending
Canada
26 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2006 : 21:42:10
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Hi all,
Have you had a doctor diagnose your TMS and did it help the healing process?
I am pretty sure I have TMS - I have had sciatic and shifting upper and lower back pain for 2 years and didn't sit at all for the first year and a half. The pain started after a very stressful period in my life, when my father was undergoing a life threatening stem-cell transplant. I had an MRI and was diagnosed with a moderately herniated disc at L4-L5 and mild degenerative disc disease. Surgery was not recommended. I tried chiropractors, physical therapy, osteopathy, homeopathy, naturopathy, psychotherapy and acupuncture, without much success. I read Sarno's book when the pain first started two years ago but wasn't ready to accept that TMS was my problem. I picked up the book again this past April and suddenly saw myself all over it. I am a perfectionist, a goodist and am prone to anxiety. I've had other mindbody symptoms in the past - allergies, asthma, tennis elbow, chest pains (not related to my heart), unexplained stomach pain. If I press certain parts of my neck, I can induce a cramp (TMS pressure point?).
The thing is, I've been journaling and focusing on the TMS theory for two months, I've read all the TMS books out there and am now listening to the Schechter CDs and DVD, and although I do see some slight improvements, I'm wondering if I need a real, true doctor's diagnosis in order to really belief that what I have is TMS. I have alot of fear when it comes to sitting again (although I am sitting for 20 minutes twice a day now - Yay!), walking long distances and bending down normally. If I link an activity to a later episode of pain, I have a really hard time doing that activity again. I am wondering if a diagnosis would help to break that fear cycle.
Seeing a TMS doctor will be expensive and require an airplane ride (I'm in Canada - no TMS doctors here!). The not-sitting part will also make an airplane ride interesting...But I am willing to do it if will help me to overcome my pain.
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 08:16:38
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I neer went to a TMS doctor. I did go to a "regular" doctor who diagnosed me with 2 herniated discs and the MRI showed such. That didn't help in believing it was not a physical problem. I would like to have a TMS doctor just come out and tell me I have TMS as it would solidify my belief. I still have that little bit of doubt that it could be physical and I know as long as I have any doubt, there will be pain.
One thing you can do is go to a regular doctor and hopefully rule out anything truly serious. If that happens, then what would be left then it being TMS in my opinion.
The reason I do believe it's TMS for myself though is because everytime I go on vacation I have no symptoms what so ever. A real structual issue would not conveniently go away just because I was on vacation.
Have you had moments where you haven't felt any pain at all? If so, keep track of those moments and pay attention to what was different at that moment. Were you distracted by something else, were you relaxed, stress free, happiest you ever been, etc.
Jay
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 09:26:33
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Jay,
That vacation situation with you is very telling, indeed...If it was structural it wouldn't just clear up like that when you are away from home...I often wonder if i was able to travel, and went to NJ...would my pain disappear too? I was doing great in NJ for the 9 weeks i was there a few years back..but...that was b4 the incident w/ the chiro last year (neck) and b4 the bad fall on my knee...So who knows...Can't afford to go now and my neck isn't up to it either so i cannot test it out...
Lark,
I never really had a formal Diagnosis either...I went to a doc in LA years ago but cannot recal his Diagnosis...I did end up seeing a TMS therapist so perhaps he DX'd TMS..but i cannot recal...I spoke to him and he said i would have to come in again w/ Xrays, etc...I cannot afford that nor do i think it is necessary...Honestly, if you think you have TMS, your instincts are probalby correct..The way i am thinking about it is even if i 'had' a real injury once...there is No Way the body would take THIS LONG to heal unless there were underlying emotional issues...So why not just treat it as TMS?
Hope this helps... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 10:32:26
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quotes from Karen:
"Can't afford to go now and my neck isn't up to it either so i cannot test it out..."
"I never really had a formal Diagnosis either...I went to a doc in LA years ago but cannot recal his Diagnosis...I did end up seeing a TMS therapist so perhaps he DX'd TMS..but i cannot recal"
Hi Karen,
Sounds like you've made great TMS progress since you've started posting at this board. You're above quotes show that you still have a ways to go before you become "your old self" again, emotionaly balanced and productive.
I disagree with you on the value of a TMS dx by a white coat. The placebo effect as well as the nocebo effect, are very powerful tools for healing or NOT healing. In our culture, science has taken the place of religion.
In the past we looked to barbers, witch-doctors or priests to heal us. Today our beliefs our shaped by the religion of SCIENCE. The priests of science, (and it's witch-doctors), wear white coats to give them credence and respect. Take off their white coats and they appear much like you or me. I've played tennis with a lot of them and have learned not to always believe their calls.
Dr. Schechter's, dx, of me NOT having TMS, began a slow and steady down-hill spiral for me. It has taken me several years to put it benind me and go forward in a positive mindbody direction. I feel very positive now, not really balanced but on the manic side of the manic/depressive continuum. In our culture you feel better if you are dooooing, rather than mediating, (especially if in bed with bodily pain). I forget who said it, but, "being sick is the western form of mediataion".
Karen, I found it intersting that you cannot recall your DX from Dr. Schechter. He did send you to a therapist so my conclusion is that he dx'ed you with TMS--or why else send you to a TMS therapist? He told me I had arthritis and should get a hip- replacement "sooner, than later".
I infer from this, that, for what-ever TMS psychological reason, you "need" your pain at this juncture of your life. This is not a criticism and I "pray" you don't take it as being "harsh". I would advise you to contiue talking with Don Dubin until you get to the roots of your TMS issues.
The fact that you mention that your neck is keeping you from traveling to New Jersey, (amongst other factors, like money), continues to show some lingering doubt that your neck pain is TMS.
I suggested that you try swimming for exercise and am curious what you thought of this suggestion. I have had great results with returning to "normal activity", by doing pool-work, as well as rebuilding by atrophied right leg muscles, do to limping, for so long.
Once again, I want to reinterate, that I am not saying anything to you in this post, with malice or negativeity. You have made great progress and I hope to see it continue: exercising, exploring your TMS, painting, singing, and traveling to New Jersey.
Best Wishes and Good Luck !
tt
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 10:49:44
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Thanx TT,
I didn't take anything you said as harsh at all, no worries...I soooo appreciate you taking the time to give me some feedback...The problem is that I think I might have found out about Don on my own and then asked Dr. Schecter about him...I was reading Dr. Sarno's books at that time too and doing research online..So I am not sure if I found Don or if Dr. Schecter told me to go to him...I may have even asked Dr. Schecter if he knew of a TMS therapist and that is how I was recommended to Don...Dr. Schechter didn't say much at all really, he was very mild mannered and sort of uninvolved...I wasn't that comfortable or impressed, to be honest...I feel for you, regarding the negative effects his DX had on you..that is horrible! And I can related that to how the Nucca Doctor freaked me out telling me about the Xray findings and focusing so much on the darn herniated discs! I am still getting over those visits with him as they happened only 5-6 weeks ago...And chances are I got worse from not only his DX of something structural but also his general lack of bedside manner...Energetically he and I just didn't connect...(the Nucca guy i mean)...
I am so glad you are doing better, TT...and hearing that you play TENNIS...wowie..I cannot wait til i can play again...i miss it so, as well as hiking, kayaking, travelling...JUST LIFE! I am normally VERY active and athletically inclined...THis is all so confusing..I know i am making progress..and so I am disappointed in myself for even wondering again about the structural thing...Perhaps it is my brains last ditch attemtp to keep me STUCK in this awful mode!
Hugs,
Karen |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 11:13:59
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The vacation thing does seem to be a pattern with me doesn't it Karen  That's why I need to win the lottery so I can always be on vacation and be free of pain Of course I realize that's kind of running away from my repressed emotions.
I'm starting to believe more and more each day that the pain I feel can't hurt me regardless of what I do. It has helped some coming to that realization.
Jay |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 11:16:33
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That is a good realization Jay...I am still working on that one...My therapist reminded me that even if i move my head to drive, i cannot hurt myself..Now I just have to believe that 100 percent myself...Yes the lottery..wouldn't that be great! Is it up and running again back there in NJ?  |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 11:21:17
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NJ is back in full operation so you can visit now  |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 11:23:08
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Thanks Karen,
Is the pool work activity feasible  |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 11:26:00
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| Oh sorry Tom, forgot to address that...I have to borrow my friends goggles, don't have a pair that fit right..I do have a great snorkle though...I have to go to the gym on the weekends when my roomie can drive me..He works during the week...It's hard to drive cuz i cannot look left/right...I did drive to the park to walk today a very short distance and it was great...I love swimming and it is a great idea you had to do it w/ a snorkle..etc..so i am going to call my friend and see when i can get her goggles to go and try it...A little concerned about the whole arms above the head thing...but...since it must be TMS i should stop worrying and just try it! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 11:44:09
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Hi Karen,
As an alternative to arms over the head, until you feel confident that their is nothing wrong with your nech and you can start moving it again, you can do water exercise, just holding on to a kickboard to keep you afloat with your head out of the water. I do this with an Aqua-Jogger belt but it can also be done just holding a kick-board or one of those "noodle" pool exercise device.
I swim without goggles but the water in my pool is not too chlorinalted--or you can try the back-stroke.
Where is the pool? Is there a pool where you live or do you have to drive to one.
The wonderful thing about water exercise is that their is NO impact and it will not jar your neck. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 07/10/2006 11:50:02 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 11:56:56
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| Yes pools are a great way to exercise/rehab..for sure...The pool is at my gym and my gym is 15-20 minutes away so yes I would have to drive...It's still kind of dangerous cuz i cannot properly look left to right to make turns..So my roomie has been taking me to the gym on the weekend...I remember years ago 1996 after the whiplash accident and when they first discovered herniated discs, swimming helped me alot...even arms over head..but in a way, my neck feels more locked up now then it was then...I am still going to try it..I love the water, would prefer real water to chlorinated cuz my hair and skin doesn't like it, but oh well.. |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 12:18:16
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Karen, can you move your body to use the side view mirrors when you drive? Is that also an issue? What I'm seeing here is you putting a lot of conditions on yourself for not doing it. And that would be a great injustice to yourself.
I'm now doing the exercises I was afraid of doing and yes I'm hurting afterwards. But if I kept saying to myself that I'll do A B or C exercise that I'm afraid of once my back feels better I will never get to it.
I agree each person has to do it at their own pace and in baby steps but I personally feel they have to challenge themselves physically to some degree. How I challenge myself will be different then the next person and that's fine as we each have different degrees of pain and fear.
But I feel if each of doesn't challenge our pain at a certain point, we never will. Even if you try to drive just around the block when traffic is very low, you will have taken some of those baby steps to prove to yourself that you can do it.
One of the biggest fears I have is hurting myself further when I lift weights. I've associated lifting weights, or at least certain exercises, with the potential for injury. Well, the truth of the matter is I can just as easily hurt myself bending over to pick something up if I had structual damage. So I've gotten to the point where I am getting pretty mad at myself (my brain) for restricting me from doing one of the things I love the most which is weight training.
I am feeding off that anger at myself to do the exercises that I have feared. Babying my back hasn't helped so that wasn't the answer. If anything, babying my back has made things worse because then I would start to think to myself that if doing nothing is causing me so much pain, what will lifting something heavy do to my back. Viscious cycle we must all break out of.
Not telling you to rush things, but if you don't challenge yourself at some point (consistently) you will be trapped in the long run. You've made some good strides but in my opinion you have to do it consistently to make yourself believe everything is, or will be, ok.
Rambling again, sorry |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 13:02:23
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No you aren't rambling...I like what you have to say, it always helps me Jay! I feel your pain regarding loving to lift weights, i do too..And I have not been able to for 6 weeks, w/ the exception of lower body and that is very recent...I am worried i am going to lose some of my biceps/triceps from not working out this long...
I know Dr. Sarno says to start introduing physical activity again once the pain is either gone or almost gone..Mine is definitely not gone, nor is the tightness...but i am starting anyway..I have to find a balance and not push it to the point where i then think i hurt something structural..I am STILL not 1000 percent convinced i am not dealing w/ a combo of structural and TMS at the same time...I sure hope it is 100 percent TMS, really i do...But my darn intellect has always been a problem for me..And being IMPATIENT..wanting a quick fix...I just can't take being stuck in this house and soooo limited in doing even basic things anymore...I am feeling so depressed today about all of this..My therapist said just experience the feeling depressed...be in the here and now...So i am trying to do that...
'
It is even hard to look in the right rear view mirror..Driving straight is no problem I am not afraid of that..It's the dangers of not being able to check if someone is coming when i make a turn...that is why i went super early when there were few cars on the road..But here i sit again, in my PJ's back to being alone and house bound...I want to paint but i have to get myself a little out of this depressive state or i may mess up the big landscape i am working on...I am in a bad space today...It could also be partly sugar withdrawals...i have been eating bad the past week and struggling to get back on track again.. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 14:44:37
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I have a suggestion.
Please, try to omit the words "pain" and "tightness" from any future message. It's for your own good. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 15:39:17
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lark,
I was not diagnosed by a TMS MD. After reading MBP and doing some experimenting it was clear to me that I had TMS and I saw no reason to waste money and time confirming it, even though I am relatively near two TMS doctors. I had seen a lot of physical practitioners (for severe RSI, which was my main TMS symptom) and knew that I had no obvious physical problems except tight muscles and extremely mild Morton's Foot that even my PT said shouldn't be causing pain. In that way I was lucky compared to back-pain sufferers since you can't MRI the forearms for "degenerative" changes. :)
I did a lot of reading, carefully resumed activity, and started the emotional digging...and I am no longer a captive to my pain! (It did not take long for me to return to activity -- about 6 weeks in I was basically back into everything, but I am not quite pain-free. I just don't let it stop me anymore!) :D
--
Wherever you go, there you are. |
Edited by - armchairlinguist on 07/10/2006 17:52:24 |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 15:47:58
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Hi larkascending,
I too have never seen a TMS doc. I had LBP and a host of other TMS equivs for over 20 years. Upon reading Healing Back Pain it just all made complete and total sense to me. I was not one of those who recovered in a a matter of days, it took me a couple years of steady progress to be 99% recovered. There was a huge decrease in overall pain after a few months, and then getting the last 10% took a couple years.
Its good that after you picked up the book(s) the second time that your conscious mind "seemed to get it". Thats a good sign. Its not uncommon for many to be so convinced by the medical/commerical complex that there is something physical problem that needs to be treated. Its a mind set, a brain washing that needs to be unlearned in order to recover from TMS.
Take care, -Stryder |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 20:47:26
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quote:
Its a mind set, a brain washing that needs to be unlearned in order to recover from TMS.
And that can take some time. That's where I struggle. I believe I have TMS. I've seen the patterns of when I do and don't have pain. Yet, I don't commit 100% to that belief. I will but it will just take me time. Everyone is different and we must all work through our own stuff at our pace. As long as you're searching for answers I feel it's all good. As long as one doesn't dwell on the pain or use it for an excuse for too long.
Jay |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2006 : 08:58:25
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Jay,
I just watched the Sarno lecture videotapes last night...And lo and behold one of the people on the video was struggling initially w/ accepting the TMS diagnosis 100 percent..Actually several were at first...But once they did, they recovered...And one person asked him if she would have to get rid of ALL her fear b4 feeling better and he said no...Just keep working on it daily and consistently...do the program...Make a list of your personality traits that are indicative of TMS, make a list of your life pressures...review these daily...Then also journal twice a day and read the books daily until it all sinks into the unconscious mind...I just returned from walking 40 min. that is the longest since this acute attack began 7 weeks ago...it was not pain free..and the gremlin moved into my back and knee as well..but i kept going and I am glad that i did...
Hope you are doing well today,
Karen |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2006 : 09:37:37
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Hi Karen,
I listen to the Sarno Audio CDs on my lovely 1 hour commute to work each day in NJ traffic and it helps to hear it over an over again in my opinion. We've so conditioned, whether by traditional doctors or the media that it's a physical problem that is running rampant, that I think we need to hear about TMS over and over again. Withing reason of course because just hearing about it and not buying into it doesn't do one much good.
Congrats on walking for 40 minutes. Just say to yourself that you expected to hurt and that you know why. When I've picked heavy things up and my back has hurt I have just laughed at myself and said to myself that of course it hurt because I expected it to. I ridicule the pain and it does subside.
I know it will be some time before I have zero pain and that's ok. I'm working on it and I am not going to let the pain stop me from doing the things I like. Do not become a prisoner to your pain. You know that, but one can easily slip into becoming its prisoner. You know if you do that you are doomed.
Keep walking If you did 40 minutes today what's to stop you from doing it again tomorrow and the next day? Nothing in my opinion.
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2006 : 09:45:54
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| I hear you Jay, I have every intention of doing the 40 minute walk tomorrow as well...I think it's great that you listen to the Sarno CD's on the way to work..I am wondering if there is anything on them that is not on the video tape...When did he record those cd's..how long ago? Maybe i will get them as well...Yes we do need the repetion, no doubt about that...I am about to go journal and read and then hopefully paint...I received an anonymous email to my regular account today that I was posting too much and my life must be so empty...I cannot relate to some of the mean spirited people out there...really i can't...I mean, no one is forcing anyone to read ANything that anyone ever posts...We all have free will...This person was such a chicken because she (have a feeling it's a woman) wouldn't let me know who she was! At least I speak up for myself and I am not afraid to write to someone directly...Oh well..what are you going to do? There are way more wonderful people on here, overall..So I won't let one or two bad apples spoil the whole bunch...I know inside that once i am past this acute attack phase..my postings will be sparse and I will be writing mostly to help others who still suffer... |
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Did you need a doctor to diagnose your TMS?
