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Becca
USA
39 Posts |
 Posted - 10/16/2005 : 16:05:49
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Hi
I have been suffering from neck pain for about 10 months. It came on gradually-no injury. an MRI showed a mild bulge at c5-6. I do not have any arm pain, but my neck and shoulders are chronically tense and achy. My MD said the pain was because my neck is long and the vertebrae are out of alignment by the disc, my muscles are being stressed. I read sarnos book recently and had a couple of weeks where my symptoms lessened. His theories seem to make sense to me, and seem to apply to me. I have anxiety problems, have had stomach troubles in the past etc. However. I am a nurse anesthetist and am around nurses doctors and surgeons daily. The structural cause of back pain is teh only accepted explanation in my workplace. I even have to do epidural steroid injections in the pain clinic for patients once a week. A collegue saw me reading Back Sense, and expressed disbelief in the theories. How can I totally accept the TMS theory and successfully apply it when I am surrounded by a very negative environment. Also, sarno mostly taks about low back pain-can anybody relate to my experience with neck and shoulder pain-R |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 16:28:03
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HI Becca,
I can sympathize with how it might be terribly difficult, given the medical culture that you work in, and yet all of us to perhaps a somehwat lesser extent are faced with the same thing..Mainstream medical opinion is just that...any deviation is looked on by friends and family members as just plain "odd ball" half the time, and benighted, foolish, misguided, whatever, the other half..
We all to one extent or another have to blaze our own trail.
As to necks and shoulders, I can tell you that as golfer I've had shoulder trouble...One day I was playing and the pain got so bad I decided I was going to have to quit, not just for the day but at least for the whole season...I thought if I took even one more swing my arm would just fall off...then for some reason I suddenly relaxed and thought, you know what? If I'm going to have to quit for the season anyway, I might as well play one more hole...for the first time in weeks I had no fear...the very next swing I took, the pain was totally gone..
Once the fear was gone, so was the pain..the shoulder didn't bother me for the rest of the season, and I played an awful lot of golf that year as I remember it..I was mystified at the time because I'd never even heard of TMS back then..
.but now it makes perfect sense to me...
Best of luck...
A. |
Edited by - art on 10/16/2005 16:30:44 |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2005 : 18:41:46
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Hi Becca,
Sarno talks about low back pain a lot, that's beacuse he sees a lot of those cases. But neck / shoulder pain I think comes in a close second or third, so its likely TMS as well. Even though I've had mostly low back / leg pain problems, I've also had neck pain, IBS, TMJ, migraines, tinnitus, and a few others as well.
You are just going to have to forget the MRI you had, just put it out of your mind since there is no connection between MRI findings and pain. It took me a while to start ignoring the huge file of XRays and MRIs I have, but once I did recovery became a lot easier.
You are in a tricky situation with your profession, your just going to have to go underground a bit. Maybe put a bookcover on your Back Sense and other TMS books (glue the covers from some novel on there :-). I wish I had another suggestion for you. But being in the health care industry you can see how the whole machine works, and that there is more money to be made with traditional medicine. I think the medical profession does a wonderful job in most respects, but it just hasn't figured out (like Dr. Sarno has) that these TMS pain syndromes require the correct diagnosis.
Take care, -Stryder |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 08:14:07
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Given the "accepted explanation" in your workplace (as a neurologist, I know the deal myself), ask yourself one question:
How many of the patients that you see, including those getting epidural injections, actually get better?
My guess is that the answer is: VERY FEW. I bet you see the same patients over and over again, many getting repeat injections, surgeries, physical therapy, etc. You will read here about many people (such as myself with past back pain) who don't just have an improvement in pain, or "learn to live with the pain," but are actually cured of the pain. Sure, occasional setbacks are not uncommon for some, but not all.
The other thing you will read about is how treating TMS not only helped people's pain, but helped their state of mind and overall quality of life. This is not a placebo, or just treating symptoms. This is treating the underlying cause of the pain. |
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cindy_gail
22 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 08:26:10
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While all our input is valuable here, I must admit its great to hear a neurologist's perspective because you are in the medical grinding machine as well. As for neck and shoulder pain, Becca, I can relate, only I've had mine for years. How fortunate you are that you're hopping on board only 10 months into things. The job environment thing would be tough for me. People talk in here about only sharing tms theory with receptive people and not trying to enlighten. I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't tell anyone who wasn't supportive or who poo poo'd it, especially since they've likely never even read Sarno or anything on tms. It's a personal journey. I'm a newbie too. Maybe you could move to pediatrics?
Cindy |
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redskater
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 09:09:30
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The friend who turned me on to Sarno is a nurse and had neck, shoulder and arm pain for years and thought it had to do with being a nurse and lifting people. She found Sarno and it took her about 2 months to become pain free. She had already been doing work with a therapist for some childhood stuff so might have beena little further along mentally. But she had been in the medical profession and heard all the same stuff but chose to ignore it and she is completely pain free for the last 3 years. She said the same thing about Sarno not really addressing neck and shoulders as much in the book she read, but she got over it and you will too. I've got some issues with mid back pain and havn't heard Sarno really address that area but he does say it can happen anywhere and I've seen improvement slowly.
Art- I too was a golfer and stopped playing for 5 years, I've been back playing now for the past few weeks and you are so right, when I got over the fear the pain went away while I was playing. Yet I can sit in a chair and have my mid back hurt, go figure.
Cheers,
Gaye |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 11:23:37
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After reading the books so many times, the question of where TMS occurs in the body isn't so confusing or problematic for me anymore in terms of diagnosis. It has been stated by Dr. S that the continuing use of the name "TMS" for this disorder is unfortunate because he went on to discover that it goes well beyond muscle tissue--but since TMS is what was originally chosen, his editor decided to keep using it for familiarity sake.
Classic TMS affects only postural muscles from the neck all the way down to the buttocks--so, iow, it won't affect your biceps, but it can occur in the neck, the entire back and/or the butt. However, it can affect tendons and ligaments anywhere in the body, so you can add to the list jaws, shoulders, elbows, wrists and knees--or any areas where arthritis hits. Why? Because Dr. S discovered in his clinical practice that the therapy worked on other conditions like tennis elbow, knee pain and RSI (as well as allergies, etc. (auto immune). I believe that osteoarthritis is TMS
The fact that Sarno's first two books focus on the back is a pain in the butt when I try to tell people that their neck or rotator cuff pain is probably TMS. I tell them about 'healing back pain' and they say "I don't have back pain". Then I have to explain not only a theory that they are likely to pooh, pooh, but also that they should accept that it applies to non-back pain. Very difficult. This is why he wrote 'the mind body prescription', to expand the scope beyond backs.
My neck and back are chronically tense too, and that is what causes the pain to occur (that is, after the onset of the distraction from repressed emotions)--other mind body doctors call this 'bracing'. the problems caused by chronic bracing in postural areas of the body are legion, from allergies to back and neck pain to being incontinent.
As my pain has diminished, I have noticed that where I used to have pain I have muscle tension that releases, then comes back, then releases, then comes back with only mild aches due to the tension. I suspect this is why in the later stages of TMS therapy, relaxation or meditation appears to provide benefits for many on this board. It takes our bodies much longer to learn to relax that it does our minds. I practice relaxation to get rid of tension, not pain. But does anyone have any theory as to why TMS therapy seems to take so much longer to work on pure tension or stiffness?
I thought the "long neck" diagnosis was good--excuse me for offending your doctor, but that is idiotic. I have a long neck; when I was young some idiot used to call me the "long neck monster", thus adding to my bank of repressed anger:) Is better than no neck! But I have little or no neck pain other than normal fatigue, so I doubt your nice long neck is the culprit. Where is the evidentiary support for blaming the length of someone's neck for pain?
In your job, you may be in the precarious position of offering services to many patients who you know will derive little benefit from them, but who could benefit greatly from what you know about TMS, but you can't tell them. How's that for a conflict ripe to cause repressed anger!!!!!!!!! Kind of reminds me of when I was a lawyer and had to take cases that I knew were losers because it was my job--sorry for that downer, but that's life. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2005 : 03:14:11
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Becca,
ALL of my pain is neck and shoulder as well as rhomboids, scapula areas. It used to be debilitating. I'd have to miss work and I could not move to get out of bed. I used to cry in agony and wanted someone to kill me. THen I found SArno and this forum. NOw I am much better. I still have trigger type pain when something upsets me but not like before. I struggle but not like before. I am running again, etc. and the chiro told me to quit my gym. I say ignore them and keep reading the book. You will find your way... |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2005 : 08:46:45
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| I know many people on this board are in pain, but I have to tell you that talking about pain does not help take it away and, in addition, may actually enduce real physical pain on others on the board. All this talk and writing about neck and sholder pain over the past couple of days has brought on a wave of pain in those areas of my own body. I don't fully understand way, but there is a link there somewhere. |
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Andrew2000
40 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2005 : 16:26:19
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| Peter, with all due respect, not allowing someone to express his or her pain - be it a physical/emotional sensation, whatever - in an open and trusting forum like this, just isn't cool. If you're identifying with someone else's physical pain then maybe there's a hot spot somewhere within that requires further attention. |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2005 : 20:23:10
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| We have to encourage people at some point, except for newbies, to stop talking about pain as that is the distraction, and start discussing the issues which may be contributing to the physical symptoms as this is where their treatment must begin. Even Dr. Sarno does not treat pain, and he makes that very clear in his books. If people continue to talk about their pain they are just not going to get well, that is the bottom line. It may seem harsh on the surface of it, but the real source of the problem begins in the unconscious mind and as long as we are talking about the physical symptoms we are not getting anywhere. It is already assumed by the very fact that we are on this board that we are all in pain - except for the few who have recovered and stick around to encourage others. I have read postings where people have been recovered then stop visitng this board for awhile, but then after awhile they come back and find all these postings about pain and their pain too returns. And that, my friend is "not cool" either. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 16:02:27
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To a great extent, it seems to me that this forum exists for the more experienced TMS'ers to lend a hand to the newcomers. People stumble onto this forum full of pain and despair, and they want to know, need to know, that the pain they're experiencing....that is the exact pain in the exact parts of the body in all its manifestations... is something that could be TMS. When I first got here I was concerned about Achilles pain because I didn't see it in the book. I found it immensely helpful that I was able to talk about that and be reassured by those with mjore experience that it could indeed be TMS.
And certainly, many of us have ongoing issues that we feel the need to discuss...I just can't see how we can have a TMS forum and not talk about the pain we suffer.
I suggest Peter that if you're having a hard time reading about other people's pain, maybe just not reading those posts for a while might be helpful to you.. |
Edited by - art on 10/22/2005 16:05:22 |
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neck pain
