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Suz
559 Posts |
 Posted - 07/30/2005 : 18:56:44
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Hi all,
As I posted recently, I am in the most difficult time of my life. I am in the process of figuring out if I should break my engagement off or not. I really really appreciate everyone's amazing support here. It seems to be very effective to post here - like seeing one's emotions on paper but with input from people.
My pain came back last night. I don't really understand why. I wonder if it is because I am going backward and forward in my mind as to whether to marry him. When I realized last weekend that this may not work - I actually faced all the doubts that I had buried so deep, my pain stopped - out of the blue, just like that!
The last couple of days I have been weakening and wondering if it is just cold feet etc. My mother is so overjoyed that I said I may not marry him and her enthusiasm annoyed me. She told me "well he isn't even attractive" etc. I have no idea why that really got to me. I asked my fiance not to call me which was really hard.
Today he ignored that request and called me three times. He left a voice message saying how much he loves me and misses me and how he has changed all his view, has had an epiphany and wants to be able to support me etc. He is saying everything I wanted, but I just feel so depressed inside - I don't want to hear how much he loves me. I don't really know why. Maybe because I feel guilt and sadness and I feel different. He really loves me and we have been through so much together. I am so torn. I told him not to call me as I need time to think. I told him I was unable to talk about anything right now- just that we may not be compatible and I am not sure if I want to continue with him. He was very suprised. Before he called, i was doing ok. - not great but I was realizing all the problems we had and all my doubtful feelings about him.
For some reason, I cannot stand saying things that he may not want to heart- it breaks my heart to see him suffer. I honestly put his desires before my own. I cannot believe that he can't see the problems we have had. We were really struggling before he proposed to me. We argued all the time. If we spent more than 24 hours together, we would argue. He always said that I exaggerated.
I just don't know what to do. We have broken up so many times and I always went back to him. I think because I couldn't face being alone and I didn't want to hurt him.
Sorry I am rambling. This is just so horrible.
If you have read this post, thank you and I apologize for being so pitiful - I am just in awful pain |
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leegold
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 19:15:53
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i have always found that the most pain and torment comes in the wavering and confusion and doubt. once the decision (any decision) has been made it seems much easier. noone can make the decision for you, but i would suggest some pre-marital conseling- this may help you gel your feelings one way or the other.
hope this helps |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 20:15:25
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| Thank you, Lee. I am in psychotherapy through Dr.Sarno and My fiance and I have been doing Pre-marital counselling with a priest from our church. This is why all these problems have come out. Probably my biggest coping skill is praying - listening for the answers in my gut. There is just so much confusion right now within me |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 20:43:17
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Hi Suz.
Wow...you're in a lot of pain.I can really empathize(is that a word?)..having just been going through the same thoughts except still married.
My mentor of sorts was a Buddhist and he always reminded me that anything we attach ourselves to is what brings up pain.The attachment in a relationship is really an imaginary leash we ourselves install.
Usually when I can get to a place where I can see and feel this and not just intellectually grasp the concept,I feel a lot less trapped.
..interesting.You keep referring to him as 'my fiance'...if you're marriage is a 'maybe' than you might want to drop that word from your vocabulary....words have a lot of power,as we all learned from reading Sarno.Also,him calling 3 times when you asked him not to is NOT a good sign.People rarely change...they grow,they regress,they attack and they retreat...but they rarely,if ever change.Me included.
Even if he does what he says,than HE won't be happy.That doesn't mean you guys can't be together,but the current script has a lot of flaws in it.
As your bud on the forum I only have a couple of comments after reading all these related strings:
#1 Your mom needs to be removed from the seat of power she currently holds....she doesn't care about your feelings....she cares how SHE looks and feels.I'd break up with HER for sure.now.right away.
#2.You and your 'fiance' have waaaaay too many 'plans' ,and believe in them to the point of dogma.Life isn't like that.You are arguing over plans like religious ideologies.....how do you know they are true? How do you know you can even have kids? How do you know he won't get hit by a car tomorrow? ....you huys talk about plans in the context of "well if we agree,than we can just follow them and live happily ever after"
Life is something that happens while were making other plans.
anyways,the only reason I was that frank is that I feel bad for you...not everyone who comforts you is your friend(Mom) and not everyone who tells you what you don't want to hear is against you
peace
Baseball65 |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 21:20:48
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Oh Suz...these guys always say they are going to change, and they may even really mean it...but if you are going to take him back, eventually things will shift back to how they were...and obviosly you know that, and that is why you are in pain.
It sounds so clear to me in your posts that you want to make a change. I know praying might help...but do not wait for a sign...take action and make a choice. you already know what that will be...and tell your mom to put a sock in it!
Sandy |
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n/a
32 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 21:53:27
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Suz,
I've been reading all your threads and thought I would offer up my 2 cents worth:
If you feel more like marrying this guy because your mom doesn't want you to you are still letting yourself be controlled by your mom. Your are feeling and doing things as a reaction to your mom's behavior.
Also, if he doesn't respect even simple boundaries you set like not calling you for a day (he actually broke your boundary 3 times!). What makes you think he's going to respect any of your other wishes?
I think a person should go into a marriage 90-100 percent sure of it. (That way you have some leeway for the percentage to fall a bit after you get married and real life sets in. It may then drop to 70-85% but it still is something to work with. If you go into the marriage only 60% sure, boy are you going to hate yourself when the percentage about being sure about marrying this guy drops to about 30%)
It's pretty normal to be in deep grief when you tell someone you've been with for years that you don't want to be with him. If you weren't feeling sad at least part of the time I would question if you were repressing it or if you even loved him in the first place. These feelings of sadness and indecision let you know that yes you had/have a strong emotional attachment and you are a person that is capable of loving someone deeply. However, it doesn't mean you should then go ahead and marry him. Sadness, indecision, and a weird sense of relief seems like the normal things to be feeling at this point.
In addition, your body seems pretty smart with it's signals. I think the indecision is the big stressor here. You can love someone deeply and still chose not to marry them in order to take care of yourself and your body.
Just my thoughts,
Take care,
LJJ
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 09:00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Suz
I am in the process of figuring out if I should break my engagement off or not... My pain came back last night. I don't really understand why. I wonder if it is because I am going backward and forward in my mind as to whether to marry him...The last couple of days I have been weakening and wondering if it is just cold feet etc. My mother is so overjoyed...
Disclaimer: I can only base my opinion on what you have posted here.
In a moment of clarity, when you put your own feelings first, when you chose to follow your heart instead of your mind, you came to the conclusion that you and your fiancee were not compatible and the marriage would probably not work. You made a decision, and you knew it was the right decision because your body told you so.
Since then, thought has replaced feeling. External pressures have risen back to prominence, pushing your own feelings aside. Guilt, doubt and other negative emotions have returned to cloud your judgement.
Based on your messages here, I am quite surprised to see that you are back to considering going ahead with this marriage. The fact that you don't know why your pain has returned is reinforces this opinion.
It seems you have ignored the warning signs in this relationship for a long time. When you finally allowed yourself to face the truth, your body told you it the right thing to do. Now you are waivering, and the child inside you is in a rage that yet again, you are putting other people's thoughts and feelings above your own, and that you are not trusting your gut.
Again, this opinion is based entirely on your messages here. I don't know you, I don't know your fiancee, I don't know the whole story. To consider a marriage that is fundamentally incompatible with your own beliefs about raising children; that requires you to be the primary supporter of your family; that requires you to, in many ways, be more of a mother to your husband than a wife ... well, in my opinion that's not much of a marriage. |
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murdo_2002
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 09:16:42
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quote:
I just don't know what to do. We have broken up so many times and I always went back to him. I think because I couldn't face being alone and I didn't want to hurt him.
Here is my two pence worth. Sometimes it is worth looking at things the other way. You do not want to hurt him by splitting up. But, if he is not the right person for you (or you are not the right person for him) then to stick with him will hurt him more and longer.
By separating from a person who is wrong for you then you give the other person the opportunity to find the right partner for them. It also gives you the chance to find the right partner for you.
By looking at things in another way it sometimes can help.
That is the advice I have given to friends when they have wondered about splitting up from someone.
Hope this will help
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 09:56:42
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Dave,
Your posts are always direct and clear - and I really like that. I bumped into Jerome (his name) in Church this morning. When I came down this morning, he had put a cup of coffee on my car and a card - i was really annoyed as he is still not giving me space. After church, he came up to me, told me I was beautiful and I still felt annoyed. I told him that he needs to give me space - he told me that this last week he has thought a lot and he really wants me to have everything I need in a marriage. He has changed his ideas about raising children. He will do whatever I want as he doesn't want to lose me and that he loves me very much.
I just stood there and felt cold - numb, nothing. This whole issue of raising children seems to have opened up a pandora's box of doubts in me.
Dave - you may have something there. I am back to thinking with my head and not enough with my heart and there is terrible conflict inside. It is a scary move to give it all up - especially when a good man is standing in front of you saying how much he loves you and will do anything. I am being influenced by things around me. It would be so great for everything to go back to normal - to be with our best friends again, enjoying this beautiful sunny Sunday at their house. Something has changed inside of me - I am flooded with doubt about it all. It is very overwhelming and strong. I must have buried this for a long time. I suddenly don't feel in love with him even though he is saying everything I want to hear. I wonder if I was in love with being engaged and getting married. The week before he proposed, I was considering breaking off with him.
It feels just like my first marriage - when I was in agony and didn't want to leave. I pushed a lot of doubts down before I married my first husband. I didn't listen.
I am simply having a hard time with this because of fear. Questions like - How will I ever find anyone? Will I lose my best friends? That is what happened after my first marriage.
Thank you so much to this forum that I can so freely express this stuff. It is hard to talk to family.
I hope that my story is demonstrating the strong link between pain and inner emotional conflict.
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 10:22:17
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Hi Suz,
Sorry you are going thru such a rough patch but better to have all the doubts in the world now than when you are married. BTW Is it possible for the both of you not to get married and just live together for a while as if you were married. Do you think that that would help give you a better insight into what it might be like for the both of you.
Just a thought.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 14:49:30
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Hi Suz.
Just butting in again.Correct me if I'm wrong,but you and your Fiance are right around your mid-thirties,correct?
Maybe I'm just cynical,but I remember humiliating myself like Jerome in my first and second relationships ...like when I was 16 and 17.I was astounded to see your post today so soon after you told him you needed your space.
Never mind all the kid issues and the like...Your buddy sounds like a good ol' fashion stalker.....You asked him for space and in 48 hours he has called thrice,come to your house uninvited and approached you in public....what would he do if you told him it's absolutely over?? He sounds like he has Never ever been rejected or in(and out) of a relationship before
There is an book called "stop your divorce now" that a lot of us on the forum have perused,and Jerome is the prime A example of how NOT to act when you want to repair a relationship.
He's basically telling you with his actions that he absolutely positively needs you no matter what.Now I know why your back hurt all the time....Louise Hay would frame it metaphorically like "get off my back"
Sentiment is an evil and corrosive fiber.I see you sentimentalizing all the past experiences but not about being with him...just about what you were doing......sentiment is what makes abused wives take back drunken violent husbands...
I feel really bad reading your posts...makes me want to be single again.
pieces
Baseball65 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 17:05:41
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I had pretty much the same reaction as baseball. Truthfully? The guy, or at least his actions, kind of creeped me out in their selfishness.
I know it's easy to just come blundering in as some stranger without any stake in the matter and start throwing opinions around, but for what it's worth I'd think long and hard about committing to a guy with so little regard for your needs...
A. |
Edited by - art on 07/31/2005 17:07:25 |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 17:30:04
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Wow - Art and Baseball - that is a pretty strong reaction. Interesting! I was quite taken back to read your posts but as always here, we are all entitled to our opinions. I was really really angry when I saw him in Church - and he just didn't get it. He said he was surprised I was so angry.
I spent the whole afternoon praying and helping a friend with her problems - which always gets me out of my own head.
I called Jerome and asked him to meet me. I wanted to hear what he had to say and how he thinks he has changed so much in the last week. He told me that he was horrified at himself and thinks it is pretty pathetic that at 35 he is still living with his mother and he needs to make a change. He said that I have every right to be an at home mother if I want to and he intends to do everything to make that happen.
I told him that I was breaking the engagement as he was not mature enough to marry - he has to get out of living with his mother and make some real changes. He said that he totally understands. I said that I would give him the ring back. He was upset by that but understood.
The problem is that I could not go the whole way. He wants us still to date and then see how it goes. He started to talk about how next year, if everything works out, we would go to Rome for our honeymoon in the summer. I told him that I might just want to be friends and his face was horrified. I weakened - not sure if I could do that. He hugged me and said how well I fit in his arms (I didn't really feel that way)
Why am I so pathetic?? I came away with the relief of breaking the engagement but unable to go the whole way and finish it.
His last words were - hopefully we can go to church together next weekend. All I said was - maybe you will wear pants instead of shorts.
AAAgh! I sat there in front of him, not feeling any physical attraction for him. Somewhere in the back of my mind is the thought that maybe, maybe he will pull through. At least I have made it clear that I won't marry him in the circumstances he is in now.
I know - are you all shaking your heads and thinking "what are you doing, woman?"
I really am a very strong character but seem to be pathetic in this area. I can't stand seeing him hurt.
Baseball - you will probably have a field day with this post! |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 17:42:28
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| Sorry - forgot to add one thing. I think it is unfair to call him a stalker as he is technically my fiance. So I think he has a right to know what is going on. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 18:44:59
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No.
I think you should get a puppy.They too,go right from living with their mothers to your house,rely on you 100% for their well being and get to stay at home while you go work.You can beat,kick,scream at them and starve them but they will NEVER leave....they can't STAND being away from their surrogate 'mothers'....even for a day.
Than,after a year when the puppy isn't cute anymore and still acts like that,continue on as scheduled.
If after 3 or 4 years you still love the Puppy,than by all means call Jerome back up,take the Dog to the pound ,and let Jerome sleep in the Basket.
In the meantime,you might actually find a man who has been weaned from his Mother.
You've actually made my day.I thought I was a loser(tatooed on my right shoulder) for living with my Mom til I was 21(after getting out of Jail/Rehab/Halfway house) ...I hadn't even seen my Mom in about 3 years when I met my wife.
Reading all these posts was bumming me out,because my current life situation seemed so similar...my wife is the bread winner while I watch the kids....SEEMED being the operative word.I worked for the first 9 years of our marriage.It wasn't until she had been a "Housewife" for about 3 years that she almost had a mental Breakdown.My sons are good kids...'A' students,star athletes...but they are Boys100%inthedirtandraisinHell.She's a girls girl100%inthemallanddressedtokill. As the boys grew older,she felt like she was 'trapped' with no one to 'play' with.If we had had girls it might have been different.
So...I began to work around her schedule.I still make more money than her by the hour,but have fewer opportunities to work due to the seasonal nature of my job(painter)
Sometimes I get really depressed and feel like less than a man.I ride skateboards and play Baseball and guitar all day and I'm almost 40.I don't own a pair of slacks,or a sportcoat.My car is a pile.
...but
I don't live with my Mom.
You know we're like Family here...I'm just havin' fun with you.
...but,Jerome doesn't sound like he's ready to Marry anybody.He sounds like he's looking for a new Mom.Has he ever had a girlfriend before? Has he ever NOT lived with his Mom?
Maybe I'm way out of bounds.If I am,forgive me.
oedipus Rex
aka
Baseball65 |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 19:36:44
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Baseball,
Your posts are something else. By the way, I really respect your decision to stay home and be with your boys - fantastic move. If your wife couldn't do it, then you had to step up to a very difficult position - good for you. I am very very impressed by that. Kids need one parent around - at least I would like to be that parent in my marriage even if it is incredibly hard. It would be much easier for me to go to my job - lots of people to talk to, lots of stimulation and order - nothing like the 24/7 work of raising kids.
Jerome has been married, lived and owned his own house and really is a very good guy. Like me, he went through addiction problems, we met in a program together almost 3 1/3 years ago. He cleaned up his whole life, started a new career - working on commission only and so moved in with his mum. His ex wife got everything. She took it all when he was in rehab. He is a very great power of example to people in the program and devotes a lot of free time to it. He has turned his life around but still has a way to go. Both of us had really bad marriages and ended in addiction problems and pain. We have both learnt to rebuild our lives. He is slightly behind me. I have a lot of understanding of this as I have been through it.
Through spiritual means, I have seen him radically change into a happy human being.
He was very very honest with me today and really wants to provide. I see a new found strength and determinatin in him. He has prayed a lot this week, talked to lots of people he respects and has a new attitude. I know him well enough to know he is telling the truth.
The problem is that I should have been overjoyed to hear this but I wasn't. I felt numb. He wanted to kiss me and I didn't want to.
I cannot face that I don't have strong feelings for him. I cannot believe it. Where have all my good feelings of love gone to? Have I really been kidding myself all the time? Two weeks ago, I was planning a wedding and now my world is upside down. I have not been this low in a long time. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2005 : 20:24:22
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Suz,
Those feelings, or lack thereof, don't lie. Again, I understand I'm just basically shooting form the hip here, but if you don't love the guy you're not doing him any favors by waffling. I know you think you're being kind, and I don't question the impulse, but if you're not honest with him you both pay a price.
At the very least, why not just declare a moratorium...say three months where you agree not to have contact. At the end of that time, you can both reevaluate. If he's not willing to do that you have to ask yourself just what he means when he says he "loves" you.
Love is as love does, no? |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 02:05:23
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So sorry things are so hard for you right now, Suz. One thing you say that tells me you should finish this relationship - you feel no physical attraction for Jerome, that's a real pointer to the fact that you need to walk away in my book.
Something else - you mentioned to him that you think that he is not mature enough to marry and that he needs to move out from his mom's house. Both of these things are reasonable observations, but in saying this to Jerome you are letting him think that there are things that he can do that will make you want to get married. To tell him that your feelings are no longer the same and that you feel nothing for him physically would be incredibly hard, but he would know then what he is dealing with.
Don't beat yourself up about having changed towards him - there is absolutely no way on earth that you can help falling out of love with someone. Ask yourself - if you go ahead and marry him or even continue a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, will the result possibly mean more emotional anguish and physical pain for you? If the answer is yes, that could be the result, then you need to walk away now - get the pain over now - remember, it's the rest of your life you are considering.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm talking from experience here.
Very best wishes
Anne
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 09:58:12
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Anne,
Thank you so much for your very helpful post. I cannot believe my feelings right now. It is very hard to accept that I don't feel what I should feel towards him. I really think that I should be head over heels in love with him - feel over the moon in order to get married. I don't feel that. I feel attracted to him from time to time but that simply isn't enough. It is very very hard to admit this. I have a tremendous amount of fear about the future - he is the person I talk to every day - my best friend. He is a very good man and I love him dearly but not passionately (if that makes sense)
I feel like I am never going to meet anyone or that I have some sort of committment problem. It is unbelievable that I have the capacity to kid myself for so long.
Your suggestion of telling him that I don't feel what I did for some reason sits well with me. I cannot stand hurting him but I need to be honest with him and myself - it would be terribly hurtful to marry him feeling this way. He deserves someone who is deeply in love with him.
I have not been this emotional in a long time. I told my dad this morning who was horrified at first (that didn't help) and then understood when I started to talk about the money problems etc. and my true feelings.
I have to be brave and go with my gut. |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2005 : 16:25:00
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Suz,
Oops! I responded to your other post about how you were feeling better and then I read this one (I've been on vacation for the past six days so I'm a little out of touch with what's been going on). After reading this entire thread, I completely agree with Dave and Baseball (I especially liked the puppy analogy). Suz, you owe yourself more than this. And, I agree that when you ask someone for space and they call you three times, etc., how is that respectful? You seriously can't be thinking of marrying this guy out of guilt can you? I think you need to break it off once and for all and get on with your life. Just my two cents.
Laura
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2005 : 12:49:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Suz
I feel like I am never going to meet anyone or that I have some sort of committment problem.
Suz- Nah I don't buy it! This guy just isn't the right one for you. Don't settle for something that is not right. You deserve more than that. Don't beat yourself up because this relationship is not ending in marriage. Most relationships don't.
I used to think the same thing about myself but I just had not met a right person for me.
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Pain returns again
