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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
 Posted - 07/18/2005 : 10:31:51
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I had some recent discussion with my mom to try and clear some of the past stuff up. But you can only get so far with that. There's no way that it could be worth losing a relation ship with a parent just so you can vent about all the bad childhood stuff. (I'm assuming here, of course, that the parents didn't really F you up in some sadistically criminal way). I've also been of the belief that you got to get past it once you realize what went wrong.
Anyway, Suz, I agree with your last post and I think that if anyone doubts that Sarno provided the key to the cure, then that probably explains why they are not getting better. |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 11:03:03
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Suz,
The conversations you have with your Mom sound very similar to the ones I have with mine. It's amazing! Have you ever had this happen - you call your mother because you really are upset about something and you need to talk, but when you call her all she does is start talking about herself and all of her problems? This is my relationship with my mother. Everything is about her, even if it's on my dime. I've called her countless times where I've been upset and needing to talk and the minute she answers the phone she's off and running, telling me all her frustrations and about all the people who have snubbed her or done her wrong. She's been in the hospital for almost two weeks, and is on the mend and coming home in another day or two. But the whole time she's been in there she hasn't wanted to talk to me. I've asked my dad several times to put her on and he simply says "She doesn't want to talk." I've tried to be respectful of that but I know she talks to him all day so her mouth is still working.
I think the hardest thing for me is having a mother like her and then being a mother myself of two teenage daughters. I have always been so close to them and now all they want to do is be with their friends, not me. The feeling I have is that nobody needs me, not my mother or my kids. I understand this is normal teenage stuff, but it's really hard when you have always been close to your daughters.
Last night I did not sleep well (haven't in weeks) and when I was sleeping I was having nightmares, one of which I realized that my oldest daughter has three more years of high school and then she's out of here and off to college. As I lay in bed in the dark at 3:45 in the morning, I started having really scary thoughts. They were thoughts about getting old, getting cancer, losing my eye sight, anything bad I could think of. I really have abandonment issues!!! I think if I could ever find someone good to talk to I would get them to help me work through this. Not sleeping night after night is not a good thing.
Laura
P.S. Suz, I'm glad to hear how you vented in the car with your fiance. Hang on to him - he sounds like a good guy.
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 11:03:03
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Miehnesor,
My psychologist seems to be very grounded and peaceful to talk to. I feel totally unjudged and safe. I agree with you that I have to go through feeling the anger before I can learn to forgive. I guess it is just so uncomfortable. I just want to know that I will get to the forgiving part.
Although last night, I definitely felt no guilt for the first time. I realized that my mother is totlly incapable of mothering in an effective, supportive way and that I have every right to be very very angry at her as i really missed out on a loving childhood. However, I believe that she has no idea at all and really does try to help. She is extremely bad at it. I feel very justified in my anger and I feel ok. with that. This seems to be a breakthrough for me. I am getting good at letting it all out instead of keeping it in. Wow - could this be progress? I am also going to journal the days stresses each evening as I think that my take care of my very stressful job. I often don't feel good enough as my boss has very high standards and the pace is very fast. He is a nice man but I often don't feel good enough.
It seems that I have to do work in addition to the hour with the therapist. Journalling and maybe punching a few cushions at home and a bit of screaming seems to help. It is a quite simple process really when you think about it from that angle |
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Marg
New Zealand
24 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 18:17:29
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And I would love to tell you about the spiritual side. It is certainly there and I have felt the support of my angels. I shall tell you a wee story, which has happened to three days after picking up Dr Sarno's book.
Three days into the programme, in the wee small hours of the morning I am lying in bed awake, tears have been falling and I here the voice of my father as clear as a bell.
He said “Happy Birthday”. It made me smile, what else could he say. It was not my birthday, but those words for me carried a lot of love. Anyway, the next day my daughter gives me her school newsletter. And in good old Marg fashion it was another day before I read it. There was a poem in the newsletter, “A Birthday Blessing” and it went like this;
A Birthday Blessing
May you sip contentedly from the fragrant wine of life
May you stretch eagerly into the opening light of each new day
May you discover kernels of wisdom hidden in unwanted experiences
May you find comfort and consolation when you are hurting
May you know the protection and guidance of your angels
May you know the tender voice of the Beloved calling to you in the deepest part of your being.
May you have a soul friend whose unconditional love gives you courage to keep growing
May you be a bearer of loving kindness when you meet those who suffer
May you gather your daily blessings to your heart and relish their presence
May you never give up seeking greater peace for yourself and for your world
May you go to sleep each evening aware of being held in the embrace of a merciful and welcoming God
May you hear the marvellous music singing in your soul every moment, lauding the exquisite of being alive.
You can imagine how much strength I gathered from these words. I think the voice I heard could have easily have been that of my brother who died 30 years ago. A brother killed in a car accident at the age of 20. A brother who hurt me with very hard with some inappropriate behaviour. I was 7 years younger. I believe he has been back to say sorry. Marg.
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 07:56:58
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This topic relating to parental relationships always hits the spot with some of us and always resonates very strongly with me.
If anything negative came out of my work to heal myself, it was the relationship with my mother altered because of it. When my father became ill with dementia about a year before his death, I supported him and my mother through it, never questioning that I owed so much of myself to caring for them. I felt incredibly guilty any day that I put myself first and didn't go to their house.
The TMS back pain really got a hold at that time.
After my father died I automatically set about doing everything I could for my mother, even selling our house and moving into one in the street next to hers.
My psychotherapist helped me uncover a depth of anger and resentment against my mother that is quite frightening. Not that I would ever harm her in any way, but the child in me resents bitterly having to take care of everything for her. She has been a helpless and needy person probably for most of her life. She left the caring of me and my brother to my father - she didn't work outside the home either.
The thing is, she actually does need help now and I have to provide it - what kind of monster would abandon an old lady in her eighties? I'm still looking for that other route as well, Suz. It's not a good feeling this anger. |
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ssjs
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 08:14:51
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I guess it is a mixed blessing that my mom died so many years ago. As I said, I was mostly sad because I didn't feel sad...and that is sooo sad!
My mom also was very needy. If I so much as said that there was a thread hanging from her dress, she would look all sad and say something like "you say that to a mother?" Like I insulted her or something.
There wasn't a thing could say to her. Nothing with or without meaning.
When she died, I realized that I had only eaten lunch...as two adults...out with her maybe once in my life. We really had no friendship. No mother daughter relationship to speak of.
My life is easier now. How sad!
Sandy
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Allan
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 10:27:51
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Suz.
In an earlier posting I believe that you asked about the path that I took. Here is my response.
I was diagnosed with spinal stenosis. I had back pain and concurrent sciatica pain in both legs for six months. I read Dr. Sarno. I was one of the rare fortunate ones to have had an “ah ha” moment and recover completely in a very short time. Since then, I have been 100% pain free for 100% of the time. It has now been five years.
I considered myself very lucky in that I did not have to wrestle too long with the problem of "whether it was psychological or structural." Maybe I have a gullible type of personality but I just quickly accepted Dr. Sarno's theory. It appears to be difficult for most people because it is so contradictory to what we have learned over the years.
I thought that I was one of the 95% that did not need psychotherapy. The reason for my pain was crystal clear to me. It was obvious. I never considered that repressed rage was causing my pain.
Am I correct in thinking that Dr. Sarno attributed repressed rage and the necessity for psychotherapy to just 5% of the people? If this is so, why are so many persons on the forum having psychotherapy?
If psychotherapy discovers the cause of the problem, does such a discovery make the problem go away? Apparently it does in the few cases in his book, but are these few cases typical? Is psychotherapy usually really beneficial and substantially effective? If so, where are the postings giving credit to psychotherapy? I may be in error here as I may have missed some.
I believe that Dr. Sarno mentions that in most cases the knowledge alone that the cause is psychological and not structural is enough to recover. It appears that acceptance of his theory, which admittedly is difficult, is the major problem in recovery.
Allan.
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 11:04:51
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Anne,
Your mother and my mother sound like they may have been separated at birth. It was the same in my house. My mother didn't have a job and the house always looked like crap. My Dad worked all day, then would come home and often times make dinner too. He did all the grocery shopping and toted my brother and I everywhere we wanted or needed to go. She was too lazy to even spank us, and many times would tell us "When your father gets home tonight you are going to get it." (One time I do remember her beating me with a wooden spoon, because she had said no more talking and my brother said his own name and pretended to be me. I got the tar beat out of me, and then my brother finally admitted it was him).
I haven't been sleeping well the past couple weeks. My mother is in the hospital, still, and I'm hoping for her to be going home later this week. She is legitimately ill, however, my mother is quite the drama queen so she is milking this for all its worth. She still will not even get on the phone with me, however, I know she talks to my father all day long. She is able to walk around the hospital halls, demand what she wants to eat, and chit chat with the nurses and my Dad - she just can't talk to me. I think there's a big part of me that's pissed off and not dealing with things very well. Also, at the same time, I keep having these weird dreams that I'm in school with my daughters, trying to hang out with them. I know this is my subconscious acting out the fact that my almost 16 year old and 13 year old want to hang with their friends now 24/7, not Mom.
It's sad we were dealt the hand that we were, but at the same time I know that my relationship with my Mother has made me a better parent. I love my two daughters so much and would do anything for them. I am the polar opposite of her.
Laura |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2005 : 17:13:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Suz
Miehnesor,
My psychologist seems to be very grounded and peaceful to talk to. I feel totally unjudged and safe. I agree with you that I have to go through feeling the anger before I can learn to forgive. I guess it is just so uncomfortable. I just want to know that I will get to the forgiving part.
Suz- the way I look at it is the forgiveness part can come when the TMS symptoms leave. We have a little built in monitor that tells us when we are done. I for one am really not even close. This TMS stuff is really pretty amazing.
For example- I thought after the last year of intensive work to feel the issues with my mom that I was really pretty far along with the work. Except there is just one thing- The TMS is still there loud and clear(although not quite as severe). Then I go and see this therapist today for an individual session for the first time and the whole time i'm talking about my history I was literally shaking and holding back the tears for almost the entire session- and this is my first visit for crying out loud. Feeling like I didn't want to completely come to pieces on my first session I waited till the session was over went into the bathroom and let out the emotions that were banging on the door to come out. Its one thing to know what your issues are on an intellectual issue (and I think i've pretty much got it down in that department) but quite another issue wrt the emotions that just seem to come from nowhere.
The experience also made me think about why I reacted so much stronger to this older female therapist then to the guys in my mens group. I think she was kind of a motherly figure to me and the kid inside must have felt safe enough to let it out. Safety seems to be an absolute necessity in therapy. Otherwise the emotions just stay locked away.
Anyway the TMS feels noticeably better today so this individual therapy is something i'm getting more excited about. I tried individual therapy a number of years ago and it didn't do much for me at the time. Now it's different because this therapist is probably better than the other one (with a lot more experience and a bigger price tag) and i've got a lot more understanding of my own issues and how to get in touch with my emotions.
The work goes on.
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Problem with Psychology
