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Carolyn
184 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2005 : 22:29:13
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Has anyone out there worked with skilled relaxation or the relaxation response to try to systematically reduce their 'pool of stress'? I am 100% convinced that my symptoms arise out of my mind affecting my mindbody but I am not 100% convinced that it is all repressed emotions.
I keep coming back to sites about Herbert Benson and the relaxation response and Walt Stoll's skiled relaxation http://www.askwaltstollmd.com/relax.html
and it just rings true with me. I feel like I have too much stored us stress and am just too close to the edge of the cliff so that a little stessor can push me over. Or once I notice a new symptom, the stress of that is enough to turn it into an actual flare-up.
According to Stoll's theory, if you practice what he calls skilled relaxation regualrly for an extended period of time, you can start removing from that pool of stress faster than you are adding to it and eventually get farther from the edge of the cliff so you are not constantly falling off of it. I have never had the discipline to actually keep up with it. I have found that relaxation and meditation are clearly helpful but once my symptoms start to recede, I am always back to 'life as usual'. I think all my old habits come back and they are clearly not working for me whether it is adding to my pool of rage or stress and eventually I have another flareup in a new location.
Thoughts?
Carolyn |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 08:02:14
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I relate to what you are saying. I feel trapped in a situation of what could be called pain/fear cycle. My symptoms and dwelling on them have put me in a serious crisis.
I also feel there is a connection between all of these concepts, tms, panic disorder etc. In "Back Sense" there are many referrals to the fight/flight of panic disorder. In panic disorder it is widely accepted that the body produces and releases adrenaline, histamine,cortisol, moves blood from the usual places, deprives oxygen etc. It could be argued that tms and panic disorder are closely related.
I have tried breathing exercises etc to try to counteract these things, with minimal success. Maybe i just havent found the right solution or applied it correctly. Have you tried anything like biofeedback?
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 10:56:38
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I understand what you are saying, I just read "back sense" and it definitely helped me. I have been unable to relax my muscles for many years now. It has contributed to my pain, and it seems like conscious emotions do affect the pain-fear cyle. The interesting question is whether the belief that only conscious emotions cause the pain would work a cure. Sarno says no, but never really explains why, or he's only willing to admit that they only make the pain worse. This seems right to me, however.
Before reading Sarno, I tried every relaxation and meditation technique I could with very little lasting affect on my pain level. It is clear to me at least that the knowledge that repressed emotions cause the pain is THE "CURE" because such emotions INITIALLY cause the disorder. Whether that is enough to get rid of all pain may be another matter. After getting TMS, we then seem to get caught in the pain-fear cycle and the fight or flight reaction gets turned on virtually perpetually. I believe that continued work on relaxation and stress relief is essential to full recovery. this is consistent with what I have said before that cognitive behavior therapy and other stress relieving techniques DO have a place somewhere in the treatment of people with TMS--it's just that they don't cure TMS; they work more on the conscious mind (which, as Sarno says, can and does have an effect on the unconscious mind or else we couldn't get better from TMS). |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 13:36:48
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If TMS is caused by your mind's attempt to distract you from all this pent up rage or stress or angst or whatever, why should just recognizing this strategy be a cure? All the pent up emotions are still there. I am in no way a critic here because I have had tremendous success with Sarno's methods. However, it seems to me that once I was onto the pelvic and back pain as the distraction, my mind took those away from me and there was a lull while my mind came up with another strategy, then all of a sudden wrist pain or another symptom. I do have periods relatively symptom free now and I can often get rid of a flare up relatively quickly but I am still frustrated by my inabilty to get rid of this completely once and for all. I feel like there must be another step.
The original problem is still there (too big of a pool of harmful emotions) but my mind just keeps going to other strategies to cope with it. Now it is coming out as anxiety and a general feeling of constant 'fight or flight' along with a very annoying mitral valve prolapse. Often the new symptoms are so disturbing, I find myself wishing for the old symptoms. Is it possible that my mind will keep giving me worse and worse symptoms unitl it finally finds something I can't ignore?
I feel like when I journal, even if I am not aware of it, the repressed emotions come a little closer to the surface where maybe they can get worked out- perhaps while I sleep- and that's why everyone says it is the 'process' of digging up the emotions and not what you actually uncover that seems to lead to recovery. I am wwondering if the problem for us TMSers may be in part that we add to quickly to this pool of emotions whether it's because of a lifetime of habits and our personalities or because the stress of dealing with the physical symptoms does keep us in that pain/fear/stress cycle. It just seems to me that some of what Benson and Stoll say makes sense in keeping with Sarno's theory and they just give you teh tools to start reducing the pool of emotions so maybe the flare-ups wouldn't happen in the first place.
Carolyn |
Edited by - Carolyn on 06/27/2005 13:37:59 |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 14:11:12
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I think with some people just the association is enough to break the cycle. Dr. Sarno himself says that may not be enough for everyone.
In some cases, maybe one event is responsible for the whole mess, and just realizing that is enough, others may have chronic habits coming from many issues and these may be the people that need more.
Dr. Sarno also relates migraines, digestive problems etc as being caused by tms, and that these conditions can be real. This is a controversial subject also. If the brain for example deprives oxygen, it is physical and the condition is real. If the brain is releasing too many chemicals such as in panic, its still a physical condition with a psychological cause. Then you have physical pain/fear reactions to it etc.
These are my opinions. i too wish just reading the books over and over would stop my crisis, but it doesnt look as if that will happen.
In most things in life, there are no 100% truths, but rather combinations. I also think most people that have been thinking wrong for their entire lives will need to improve that before they can expect to beat physical symptoms. Id appreciate any sites on stress reduction principles or theories. Best wishes.
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 15:19:59
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I think you are making a good point in that some people may need some additional steps--as in Fred Amir's book. I do stretches in my back almost every day because I thing my years of sedentaryness require it to relieve tension. I also think you got to remember that Dr. Sarno discovered somewhat accidentally and was suprised (but delighted) that many patients got better with just the knowledge he gave them. I don't think he really knows exaclty why, other than to say that it works. Rarely will a person ever release the "pent up" emotions--they will remain there for most people who won't have a Helen-like experience--and that is ok. Remember how he said we are all entitled to some pain as long as it doesn't rule our lives. What did he really mean by that? Does his book really claim that ALL of the "successful" case histories described in the books resulted in a person who became truly and completely 100% free from pain, never ever to relapse again or never to need any other type of assistance? I don't think so.
Also, for the majority of us, or at least those who have had chronic pain, the recovery seems to be invariaby gradual and will involve the brain's attempt to use other bodily functions as a distraction as long as it thinks it can succeed. If you feel better using other techniques to reduce stress, you should do it, I don't think anti-stress and relaxation techniques are anti-Sarno at all. It's definitely a fight, you just can't give up. |
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aorta
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 15:30:04
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johnnyg,
I agree with everything you are saying.If i remember correctly you are a lawyer? In any case, ive had anxiety issues probably since birth and have gotten along fairly well, but now a year ago, all hell breaks loose and i find everything i hold sacred at risk. What if anything in particular have you done as far as stress reduction techniques ?
thanks
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Fredarm57
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 19:46:04
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aorta:
When I used to get into panic loops, I found relaxation tapes very helpful. Take a short break, put on the headphones and go to your favorite place (or a peaceful place, depending on the tape). It's like a mini-vacation. I'll dig them up and post the names. Fred |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2005 : 08:28:01
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| Nothing too fancy. I've done some meditation/relaxation tapes with binaural beat--really cool stuff-made by brainsync--they have a web site, the president is Kathy Howell. I also did hypnotherapy for a while, but the benefit was always short lived. As soon as I was done with the tapes, the pain came back. I pretty good bought a book on Taoist breating techniques, can't remember the author. I also tried using several ancient shamanistic remedies, like plants, herbs, etc., usually in combination with the binaural beat tapes and they helped a little too. But I felt dependent on them. After learning about TMS, I get a much better result with all relaxation techniques, no doubt because the key factor was knowing that there is nothing wrong with me physically. |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2005 : 11:21:03
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johnnyg
I have also used those brain sync tapes and have found that they can relax me when I am too tense to be able to effectively relax myself with meditation. According to Walt Stoll, you need to do it twice a day for 9 months or so to permanently eliminate the excess stress that is causing symptoms. These tapes are supposed to cause your brain to generate theta waves like it does during meditation or other forms of deep relaxation and according to the theory, in this state you are able to discharge stored negative emotions 24X as efficiently as you do during normal sleep.
Carolyn |
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alanc
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2005 : 15:04:29
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"If TMS is caused by your mind's attempt to distract you from all this pent up rage or stress or angst or whatever, why should just recognizing this strategy be a cure?"
Carolyn - Everyone has pools of pent up emotions that will never go away. The cure is in the awareness of that pool of emotions and the application of the theory should focus on a change from the thinking about the physical aspect to the psychological. Think psychologically not physically. You will never get rid of that pent up pool, just recognize the fact that it is there and that your mind does not like it. Talk to your unconscious self/tell your brain you know what it is trying to do. You must condition yourself to think psychologically about the emotional cause rather than about the physical pain. You will not rid yourself of the anger and rage, that is natural. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2005 : 08:26:44
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| carolyn, thanks for reminding that you have to do the brain sync tapes for a longer period. I had forgotten that, but when I was doing them everyday, I always noticed I would be a little calmer as the day began. That's really hard to do when you start every day in a law office where most attorneys run around like chickens with their heads chopped off. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2005 : 11:25:03
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quote:
Originally posted by alanc
"If TMS is caused by your mind's attempt to distract you from all this pent up rage or stress or angst or whatever, why should just recognizing this strategy be a cure?"
Carolyn - Everyone has pools of pent up emotions that will never go away. The cure is in the awareness of that pool of emotions and the application of the theory should focus on a change from the thinking about the physical aspect to the psychological. Think psychologically not physically. You will never get rid of that pent up pool, just recognize the fact that it is there and that your mind does not like it. Talk to your unconscious self/tell your brain you know what it is trying to do. You must condition yourself to think psychologically about the emotional cause rather than about the physical pain. You will not rid yourself of the anger and rage, that is natural.
I'm just about finished reading Author Janov's "The new primal scream" where he refutes this notion that the hidden emotion is permanently there and you can't do anything about it. I think the authur is a little bizarre personality wise in that he seems to have a fascination with peoples pain; but, the book has been a real eye opener for me in that he links all of the bizarre manifestations of TMS and its equivalents(related in this thread) to repressed pain. He runs(of his wife now) the Primal Therapy Center in Los Angeles and through techniques that he does not disclose brings people back in time, even to birth experiences, to relive the trauma and release all that built up tension that has existed in the body thereafter. Many of the stories are a little hard to believe but I don't believe he is making this stuff up. |
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relaxation response
