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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - 03/31/2005 : 16:25:02
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 Hi all,
I bought an inversion table back in Jan to help with my spinal stenosis/bulging L4-L5 disk.  For those of you unfamiliar, it's basicly an inclining board that you strap your ankles into and you let yourself recline back as far you are comfortable, to help give traction to the spine, thereby reducing impingements and/or bulges in disks, or in my case, to help the narrowing spinal canal expand. Reading Sarno's books he says not to do any PT modalities. However, I'm wondering if an inversion table is considered PT when it's used for relaxation and stretching out the spinal column. So far I am mixed about whether I think it even works for my issues, and I don't know if using the inversion table goes against the theory of not using PT, chiro, etc., for then you are enabling yourself to believe it's a spinal disfunction as opposed to emotional or mind related. What say you? |
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almost there
109 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 16:51:44
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Maryalma8-
Of course... using the table will keep you focused on the physical and not the psycological...interesting trick your mind is playing to keep you thinking your pain is due to "stenosis" or a "bulging disc"...this is the hard part about Dr. Sarno's approach to TMS....this is part of "the work" you hear so much about...do nothing to alleviate the pain except think psycological...tell yourself there is nothing structurally wrong that is causing the discomfort...it's hard at first but will get easier...especially when you feel the pain subsiding....and you will....it is so worth it! |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 17:34:37
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Hi Mary.
Yup,anything that presupposes a structural cause of the pain is only reinforcing the injury myth.My neighbor used to have one of those and he chucked it after he read HBP.
I myself had to pitch my corset,my ice packs,my canes and my picker-upper-clamp-johnny,so I wouldn't have to bend over to pick things up.The ice and corset in particular were tough to imagine life without...ice always seemed to reduce the pain,and the corset gave me a feeling of being "supported".
I distinctly remember reading HBP and getting to the part where Sarno says "...and that means unlearning all that stuff about how to bend,sit,lay.."
while I was reading it,I remebered that I used to love reading on my belly all sprawled out,but had stopped on the advice of the PT.I immediately flipped over on to my belly and never went back.
It's a little scary at first.....but when your pain goes away it will be worth all the effort.
Than you can have a placebo garage sale.
FOR SALE:
1 inversion table
1 lumbar corset
4 matching lumbar support chairs
1 TENS machine
6 heel lifts(various sizes)
2 canes
1 walker
complete set of 'memory foam' pillows and mattress
1 Magnetic back fixture
3 copper bracelets
2 pairs of wrist supports(black and navy)
1 neck harness
45 10/500 Lortab
32 flexeril
2 unopened jars of celebrex
Must take whole lot
will consider trade for water skis,skydiving equipment or Motocross Bike.
Baseball65 |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 17:45:06
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Some guy who was an "alternative healer" strapped me to one of those things once back in my desperate for relief days. He turned me upside down and left me there for about half an hour. By the time he came back I was dizzy, had no blood left in my low extremeties and his dog was licking my face. That's about all it did for me. It was just as much a waste of time and money as all the other stuff I tried:
PT
Hypnosis
6 different chiros
back belt
ortho pads
standing at work instead of sitting, etc, etc.
Sell it or use it for firewood would be my advice.
Moose |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 17:50:16
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| By the way, I decided since my lower back went out on Christmas (triggered from running on treadmill at very high RPM) that I want to start at least power walking again. So for a month or more I've been doing that. Upon reading Sarno's book last and this week, I decided this AM to add a little running into my powerwalk. Just baby increments. 15 mins of walking, 2 mins running, you get the idea. Guess what? All day my left buttock is KILLING me now. I'm panicking which is not good and I'm obsessing, "where the heck is this coming from?" Keep in mind I am a newbie. I don't know, I'm worried about how I"ll feel in the morning now. I have talked to myself about it and that's all I can do for now.Ok, I get the picture about the inversion table. Yes, Baseball, I too can have a sale like that one you advertise. I was even going to buy a Temperpedic mattress out of desperation but I LOVE my mattress so much. Why would a mattress cure me? Crazy how we think all these products will cure us. It's desperation at its finest. |
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almost there
109 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 19:26:54
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Maryalma8-
Why would you be adding running to your power walking at this stage of the game....just continue what you had been doing previously to the running for the time being.....until the pain starts to subside.....and it will....by your pushing yourself only makes you continue to think physical....testing to see if the pain is still there....think psychologically not physically....your mind is resisting your giving up the idea that the pain is structural....give it time....give yourself a break....while you feel the pain try to actively relax that area and visualize the blood flowing into that place....you can do this....it will work...you've come so far to let go now....it worked for me....it will work for you! |
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almost there
109 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2005 : 19:29:06
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Baseball-
Loved your For Sale list! |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 00:45:20
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Give it time for the knowledge that this problem is psychologically based rather than structural to sink in, Maryalma8. Be gentle on yourself, that's what I advise - save the running until you really fancy doing it, don't push yourself into doing something to find out what the result will be at this point.
Many, if not most of us who post here, took time to get into the frame of mind that allows a new brain set to start getting rid of the pain. When the fear begins to subside - that's when things will begin turn around for you.
When you think about it - it's no wonder that you, like I did, feels mixed up right now - for years probably, you have had a whole back pain 'industry' telling you that your problem is structural and that if you are not very very careful and pay shed loads of money for whatever device, physical therapy, or drug they are selling - you'll be in trouble!
Now you have found something different that your instinct is telling you is correct, but the old mind set will need time to accept it.
Take care
Anne
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Edited by - n/a on 04/01/2005 00:48:22 |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 03:26:48
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| Almost there, I used to run before my back went out on Christmas. Since Christmas I have been walking, scared my buttocks will start up or that my lower back will fail me again. So here we are three months later, I'm still walking, not running like I want to, and I read Sarno's book saying to get back to what you did prior to the injury to let the body know you are aware it's psychological. So I figure, ok, I've been power walking for three months, instead of running, which is what I have done for years with no problem. Then yesterday I thought, ok, I will power walk, but put a few minutes of running here and there as baby steps. Is this not what he is saying to do? I'm confused. Thanks |
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robbokop
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 04:01:39
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Baseball, my girlfriend makes fashion corsets - but I don't they're the kind you wore. I have a vision in my head of a male baseball player in one of her corsets - it's not a pretty sight!
Great post by Moose - that really cracked me up about the dog!
Rob |
Edited by - robbokop on 04/01/2005 04:03:56 |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 05:18:46
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Mary.
I think what Anne and Almost there are trying to say is that,many of us being perfectionists and highly compulsive,tend to read Sarno,GET IT,and immediately go overboard taking every single step we can to get an immediate result.You seem to have grasped the concept really quickly. I make odds for gamblers(baseball) and I'd say you're a -290 to recover very quickly( a -290 is Randy Johnson pitching against a scrub from tripleAAA ball)
Because of the slow,lumbering unconscious mind,the resolution is usually days and days behind the conscious mind.This can frustrate or scare some people,so Sarno recommends we attempt it ONLY after we have had some resolution of the pain,which you began when you picked up the book,but is on no sort of "time schedule"...his main concern is that people will "scare themselves" by returning to activity prematurely,and only delay their recovery.
Now,that being said,I myself went for a good hard sprint about 6 days after reading the book....I like you only equated "power walking" with PT and being injured.My left calf was completely atrophied,and I had been told I might paralyze myself if I ever ran again...I was walking through the park,wondering why the sciatica was still there(6 days later!!),and it occured to me that I never walked until my "problem" began....I used to run/bike/skateboard
I knocked off a 200 yard sprint(albeit a bit wobbly) and arrived at the other end winded,but in NO WORSE shape than when I had begun.I dropped walking altogether after that and began to ride my bike from then on,always focusing on the psychological aspect of my fear,my friend who died while we were cycling together,and almost any emotional thing I could conjure.
I had a very quick recovery,even by Sarno's standards(5 weeks and I went from cripple to back at heavy labor...3 weeks after reading the book,I was in the 80MPH batting cage)
Each one of us will know intuitively when it is time,and though we can share experience here on the board(which didn't exist when I recovered) it is still a solo journey.
OH yeah To ROB::.... I WAS in womens lingerie the night I met my wife!! She still has the pictures on her bedroom wall(much to the distress of our 2 sons)..but that is a different post altogether!!
Baseball65 |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 06:16:59
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Baseball,
Please forgive my denseness but I don't know if I am understanding. Are you (Sarno) saying, do not go back to your usual activities, in my case running, until after you've gotten over the pain for a while? Not sure I understood what you were saying in your story about the bike and walking/sprinting. I got a little lost in the metaphor you were making. Maybe it's been a long week and I'm so absorbed in this that I'm not grasping it, albeit I want to grasp it ASAP. My mind is eager to get help so I need some hand holding here. I think you are saying 1)You believe I am grasping it and I seem like I will recover quickly? 2)Then I think you're saying, even though I used to run, and now I power walk instead, I should not be trying to run again until after my pain has subsided and my brain has accepted the new thinking of psychological vs. physical? Please clarify if this is what you mean. Again, sorry for my denseness today. Also, since I can't see Martinez for a month or so, I will be posting quite a bit on here with tons of questions for you all. I hope that's ok. You are all a very big help already to me. I am mentally in a better place just having people to bounce ideas off of. Also, I asked this already but I want to rephrase my question to those of you who care to answer. Is it possible that in our typical compulsive way, we can get TOO obsessed with getting well, to the point where we are undoing our recovery? I ask this because it's a paradox: we want to get well, and part of getting well is that we re-train our mind to look at things as psych. vs. physical, so when I get jolts of pain or when my left buttock starts to ache, any little physical tinge of threat that the pain wants to start, I start the new thinking, and I talk myself through it and I try to pin point what may be on my mind that may be causing it. Is this in itself a bit obsessive/compulsive and therefore kind of counter productive? At what point are we doing more harm than good when we are trying to retrain our mind? I get worried that maybe I will obsess to the point that it's not healthy for my mind to be so wrapped up in this TMS process of healing. Do you follow me? I'm not saying the process is bad, I'm saying that with the personality I have, which is rigid, hard to adjust to new things, I tend to put force on the matter and try to MAKE MYSELF well. Can this be damaging? How can one keep it all in perspective and not go over the edge and make ourself worse? Hope this makes sense.
Mary  |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 06:52:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Maryalma8
Is it possible that in our typical compulsive way, we can get TOO obsessed with getting well, to the point where we are undoing our recovery?
Yes. This is a TMS equivalent; it serves as a distraction.
But don't think in terms of "undoing" your recovery or "doing more harm than good." You are still entrenched in the physical realm. You have to be of the mindset that from here on, it's only going to get better, not worse. Now that you are learning and applying the concepts of TMS, all it takes is continued focus and time. There's nothing you can do to "make it worse."
No doubt, the pain might return, and with a vengeance. This is typical during the early stages. Your brain will fight. It will try to shake your belief in TMS. Don't let it, no matter how bad the symptoms get. Just keep doing the work.
And last but definitely not least, get rid of the inversion table! It is absolutely against the TMS approach and using it will stunt your progress. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 09:18:23
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| Maryalma 8 - I think that you are doing the right thing by trying to think psychologically on a frequent basis when you get the pain. I don't think that you are being too obsessive about it....You need to be a little obsessive/disciplined to succeed with Sarno...I agree with you that 3 months of power walking is enough of the conservative approach, and now it's time to start throwing some running into your routine, since running is what you really want, until your time spent is 100% running if that's what you want. Just push through the pain, ignore the pain, notice the suspicious variations in the intensity and the location of the pain, and dispute/reject any thoughts that the pain has a structural basis. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 09:26:32
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| I should have said notice the suspicious variations in the frequency, intensity, and locations of the pain....Excuse the perfectionism. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 09:31:50
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| By the way, I am selling my inversion table. :-) |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 13:07:57
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I have an inversion table. How ever I don't look at it as a pain reliever. I use it to relax and clear the mind. It helps me focus on my mental status. I guess you could call it my yoga time. If you decide to use yours remember it is not a tool to reduce pain.
Have a nice day. |
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 04:54:28
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| Good one Baseball,well said! Paul. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 07:54:04
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NAY,
Funny story here. I am a long time veteran of chiropractic, started over 22 yeas ago. This was when they actually had these inversion tables in the chiro’s offices. “Man” I don’t forget between traction of getting pulled and the gradual gravitational pull of hanging upside I was in heaven.
However like I said 22 years, they faded out the inversion table and traction was not strong enough anymore as my condition worsened. I think we even invented new ways to use the muscle stim and the tens unit.
Ok my point, about a month of two before being introduced to doctor Sarno. I WAS AT MY WORST CONDITION EVER. Waking the new day in pain 24/7 so I became very desperate and actually built one.
I took a piece of melamine, supported it on center with a 2x9, stacked 2 egg crates, slipped through a 2 inch pipe through the handles, created a see saw pendulum with half c brackets, made two heavily padded ankle brackets and a pair of old snow boots. I actually used two leather belts to keep my shins strapped in and take the pressure of the ankles. It took 2-3 adjustments get the center of gravity right so I can get on and lay back without slamming. It inverted about 45 degrees, which was enough for a pull.
“LOL” can you picture this, the things we will invent to get out of pain. Well it really never worked in the condition I was in. Nothing was going to until I isolated the underlying condition to my pain.
I was desperate at this time my chiropractor was not helping anymore which lead me to go for injections and over 4 months of intense physical therapy.
It was at that time I discovered doctor Sarno’s work and TESTED his theory and applied the MBP.
Got rid of ALL physical remedies, triggers de programmed my emotional responses, Journaled, journaled Journaled, connected the dots to my condition, made peace with my past and broke the pain cycle.
As an update, been over a year March 2004 I made a major discovery to my condition. After 5 months of studying and understanding the syndrome, digging deeper to understand the emotional component as it involves the “auto immune system” and the application to Sarno’s work. It was trough jouraling , 4 years of autoimmune medical research along with my faith I made a mind/ body/ spirit connection. I was able to make peace with the past break its cycle, and now I know how to live for the moment again.
Being part of this board for over a year helped me understand this.
Thanks you all for listening
Kenny V
Always Hope For Recovery
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michelesmarty
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2016 : 01:11:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
Hi Mary.
Yup,anything that presupposes a structural cause of the pain is only reinforcing the injury myth.My neighbor used to have one of those and he chucked it after he read HBP.
I myself had to pitch my corset,my ice packs,my canes and my picker-upper-clamp-johnny,so I wouldn't have to bend over to pick things up.The ice and corset in particular were tough to imagine life without...ice always seemed to reduce the pain,and the corset gave me a feeling of being "supported".
I distinctly remember reading HBP and getting to the part where Sarno says "...and that means unlearning all that stuff about how to bend,sit,lay.."
while I was reading it,I remebered that I used to love reading on my belly all sprawled out,but had stopped on the advice of the PT.I immediately flipped over on to my belly and never went back.
It's a little scary at first.....but when your pain goes away it will be worth all the effort.
Than you can have a placebo garage sale.
FOR SALE:
1 [url=http://www.wordsiseek.com/inversion-table/]best inversion table point[/url]
1 lumbar corset
4 matching lumbar support chairs
1 TENS machine
6 heel lifts(various sizes)
2 canes
1 walker
complete set of 'memory foam' pillows and mattress
1 Magnetic back fixture
3 copper bracelets
2 pairs of wrist supports(black and navy)
1 neck harness
45 10/500 Lortab
32 flexeril
2 unopened jars of celebrex
Must take whole lot
will consider trade for water skis,skydiving equipment or Motocross Bike.
Baseball65
Keep us updated on this topic. Thanks for sharing. |
Edited by - michelesmarty on 08/03/2016 03:48:50 |
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