| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| austingary |
Posted - 07/03/2004 : 08:12:00
If the cause and the cure for everyone's pain could be known, I think we would find that all the causes and all the cures would be different. No one-stop solution could benefit everyone.
I think we should keep this in mind as we read these posts. Anyone who is looking for The One Solution is very likely to be disappointed, just because there is no one else with exactly the same problem, hence exactly the same solution.
Some people are dealing with pain that is 100% psychogenic. But some may be barking up the wrong tree when they come here; their pain has very little to do with unconscious rage or anything else going on in their minds. They have bad habits or practices they need to change. Perhaps a few have real "structural" problems. We pretty much all agree, I think, with Dr. Sarno that these probably rarely cause pain, but they must in some percentage of the people.
What helped me to go from terrible pain to 95% recovery in under 3 years was a particular combination of doing the anti-TMS work, applying some good advice from a Pilates instructor I met & some exercises I found in books. I changed the way I held myself as I sat, stood, walked and ran. I stopped stretching, took off time from running, instituted a slow walking regimen, and gave myself the time to heal. But I doubt that doing exactly what I did would be right for anyone else.
I think we are better off if we look at this message board, all the books on Amazon and in the bookstore, and all the advice we get from doctors, family, friends and strangers, like a bowl of fruit from which we are free to choose none, a little or a lot and to mix in any way we see fit. The idea is to create our own unique solution for our own unique problem. To do that we have to trust our instincts, our Creative Process, to tell us from "within" what are likely to be the right choices among all the suggestions and then to try things. Unless we try things, test possible solutions, we can never really know if any particular method will fit into our Unique Solution or not. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mala |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 04:29:15
tt,
Here's a very interesting study on glucosamine therapy compared to ibuprofen for joint pain. The best glucosamine is in liquid form and you need to give it time. Doctors in HK even in Government hospitals are prescribing it. Another supplement worth trying is lyprinol. They both take time to show effect but they do work.
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/ip/petergriffiths/ebdm/papers/glucosamine.pdf
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 11:23:22
Gentlemen, very interesting debate! Well said, in the interest of healing and non-inflamatory.
Let me throw in my two bits. I did forget how to walk and run. My lifestyle habits became working at a desk and playing tennis. In conjunction with this, a very emotionaly volatile relationship breakup that endured for years with no light at the end of the tunnel. Prior to this I ran marathons at a respectable pace.
I am able to get by on the tennis court, limping and dragging my right leg which freezes up under the pressure of chasing down a shot out of my reach. I had to retrain my leg to walk. I accomplished this by walking 45 minutes a day. It would take about 20 minutes for the hip joint to loosen up and work normally. I started doing this several years ago on vacation. The next step was to re-conditon my thinking to do this on the tennis court. Recently I am becoming sucessful at this. I can reach most balls by walking to them or running in a fashion that does not lock up my hip joint.
Yesterday, I had to pickup my car at the dealership after servicing. I jogged the 10 blocks. This was a breakthrough. My pace was slower probably than if I had walked, but the movement was running rather than a walking motion. In my mind I feel the muscles in my right hip have locked up in a TMS fashion. I am going to start jogging to retrain my leg how to run again, little by little. I am hopeful I can accomplish this.
On the subject of science, I have little faith in it anymore. It's only as good as the integrity of those who practice it. I have lost faith in the once great institutions of learning. They have become politicized dinosaurs. The public is disillusioned and confused by all the contradictory "studies", mis-reported by the media--witness the plethora of snake-oil supplements, overflowing the shelves at Walgeens. Even doctors are throwing up their hands and going along withn their patients leads, recommending supplements that have no definitive "scientific" studies behind them. For example glcosamine-chrondroitin. There is no definitive science behind this supplement. I keep hearing that the "major" study is being done. I took it on several occassions for extended periods. I found that one brand I used had little or no active ingredient in it according to a doctor reccommending another brand. So I don't know if the stuff has any beneficial effect or just placebo. I have heard that it may help by 25%. For the time being, I am taking nothing until I see evidence of effectiveness from a scientific community I have little faith or trust in. Anything short of a fracture, I'll treat it with TMS thinking. I feel, as far as our health goes, we are all on our own and must take personal responsibility, mucking through the mire of this "new age". Sarno helps a lot, he's my primary physcian although I've never met him and probably won't. |
| FarmerEd |
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 07:59:07
Hello Gary,
You wrote: FarmerEd, I don't think those people lied. But we are talking about a very tiny sub-set of all the people who suffer from chronic back, butt and leg pain. And this sub-set paid for and went through Sarno's program, self-selecting for at least enough belief in it -- and reason to think that their pain was psychogenic -- to do that. Without a control group to compare them to, reported results from them would not be taken seriously by scientists -- and has not been, much to Dr. Sarno's displeasure.
I'm glad to see you changed your mind about these people giving false replies. I agree that it is a tiny subset of all that have chronic back, butt and leg pain, but it is noteworthy to show that for some reason the vast majority of this tiny subset that finally sought relief with Dr.Sarno's methods had chronic pain that was psychogenic in nature. Now most of the people who post on this board have also sought relief from many different doctors and methods and are finally seeking relief in Sarno's methods, as did the group in the survey. Those on this board are also a tiny subset and have self-selected for at least some belief in Sarno's theories. Given the similarities between these 2 tiny subsets, wouldn't it be safer to assume the majority of this tiny subsets' pain is psychogenic in nature as well, and procede in that direction first?
That the reported results would not have been taken seriously by scientists dosen't bother me. I believe it is compelling enough to be taken seriously by laymen like us. The evidence given by Dr.Eqoscue seems equally flimsy to the scientific community but seems enough for you, why do you require me to produce a higher level of proof? Does Dr.Eqoscue have a similar survey of patients who were in debilitating chronic pain who are now essentially pain free leading normal lives and activities, and if so what is his success rate?
You wrote: But, in fact, I made no claims. My posts are simply my personal opinions. That is all they have ever been.
I agree, but you have often presented claims from Dr. Eqoscue and these claims are what I am questioning. In the future I will try to make this clear. Dr. Eqoscue's claims I find as equally extraordinary as Dr. Sarno's, yet again you don't seem to require the same extraordinary proof to accept his that you want me to produce for Sarno's. As I stated before, I find Dr. Sarno's more credible and choose to follow his program.
You wrote: Neither have I claimed that "we" -- meaning everyone -- forgot how to walk correctly.
I agree that I misrepresented Dr. Eqoscue's claims as you have presented them. You are right to point out and correct me for doing so. I've noticed you are quick to correct people on what you have said when they twist your words to go beyond what you meant, and I applaud you for this. In view of that, I would point out that you also at times put words in Sarno's mouth he has never said, misrepresenting what he has said and taking it to extremes, going far beyond what he ever intended to make your point. If you do not wish your views to be misrepresented I would think you would not wish to do so to others' views.
In his book "Healing Back Pain" on pages 81-82 Dr. Sarno makes it clear that Exercising for the sake of good health is important and is, "strongly encouraged.". Exercises done to "fix" a percieved back problem are discouraged.
BTW, JohnD, these surveys were done as followups on patients that had been treated from 1 to 3 years previous to the survey, not right after treatment. I also believe the survey was dealing mostly with the original back problem that they were first treated for, not other TMS equivilents that might have sprung up, but that is an assumption on my part.
I enjoyed it Gary. I'll let you get in the last word on this. If I get a chance I'm going to start a new topic later, on something I'd like to hear your opinion on.
Ed
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| austingary |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 11:38:40
Your claim that we somewhere along the way forgot how to walk correctly, and need to be reinstructed in the basics of how to do it, is equally extraordinary.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and on this topic you have supplied none.
True to form, KennyV had to jump right on top of this one, as though he had thought of it.
But, in fact, I made no claims. My posts are simply my personal opinions. That is all they have ever been. Anyone may take what I have to say for what it is worth to him or her, if anything. Get that? What part of "opinion" do you folks not understand? I claim no expertise whatsoever on this subject, nor have I ever.
My opinion is that Dr. Sarno is wrong to suggest, as, IMO, he certainly does in his books, that our evolutionary environment has prepared us for chairs, cars, sofas, buffet restaurants, an indolent lifestyle and all the other accutrements of modern American life.
No, I think our evolutionary environment prepared us for a nasty, brutish and short life on the savannah. In order to live in our world today without paying for it with a lot of pain, we have to use many work-arounds. Careful attention must be paid to diet, exercise, and many other aspects of how we relate to the world, because we are physically unprepared for it. We can't just drift through life, thinking that this is what we were made for. It isn't.
That's my opinion. It doesn't require any proof, extraordinary or otherwise. If you don't like it, then poor you, for wasting your time reading it. |
| kenny V |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 10:51:24
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and on this topic you have supplied none."
"Between the 2 extraordinary claims I choose to believe Dr. Sarno's."
(Good stuff Ed- NM )
Always Hope For Recovery
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| Texasrunner |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 15:07:34
We ought to get togehter and discuss the pros and cons of interwining TMS theory with running and other sports sometime! |
| austingary |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 14:22:17
Austingary- just curious- Are you from Austin, TX?
Yup. First came here to the University in 1963. Have lived here and elsewhere since then but more here than anywhere else. |
| Texasrunner |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 11:10:43
Austingary- just curious- Are you from Austin, TX? I noticed you posted an article I wrote for the Austin American Statesman about stretching and running.
-BH |
| JohnD |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 10:37:16
I don't necessarily agree with everything that Gary has said, but there is alot of to be learned from the approach he takes. First off, regarding Sarno's survery's, I highly doubt that those patients were able to completely rid themselves of all of their TMS equivalents. Its just not realistic to be able to re-condition the mind of the way it responds to all (tms) pain in such a short period of time.
Sarno is a very smart man. He knows the personalities of the patients he has treated, and he probably knows that most people need him to take the black and white approach that he does or else they would obsess about the .004% chance that their pain could be something else.
In the end, I've drawn 2 conclusions from reading Sarno and from my own experience and they are 1. sometimes its impossible to know exactly what the cause of the pain is. 2. regardless of #1, my body is strong and my body will heal if I give it the opportunity to, and I don't need to know the exact cause in order to be healthy |
| austingary |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 09:56:06
FarmerEd, I don't think those people lied. But we are talking about a very tiny sub-set of all the people who suffer from chronic back, butt and leg pain. And this sub-set paid for and went through Sarno's program, self-selecting for at least enough belief in it -- and reason to think that their pain was psychogenic -- to do that. Without a control group to compare them to, reported results from them would not be taken seriously by scientists -- and has not been, much to Dr. Sarno's displeasure.
I haven't said anything about "RSI". And I don't know what pains secretaries -- or assembly line or mill workers, for that matter -- did or did not get. I don't think Dr. Sarno knows that, either.
Neither have I claimed that "we" -- meaning everyone -- forgot how to walk correctly. The main problem is that most people hardly walk at all. But just speaking for myself, I was not walking "correctly". I was walking with my whole pelvic area held tightly. Others who post here have reported that they found themselves doing the same thing. Learning how to relax the pelvic,ab & erector muscles as I stood, sat and walked made a great difference for me. Perhaps that does not apply to you; I have not suggested that it does.
If what I said in my original post on this thread has any resonance for you, great. If not, that's fine, too. What you do or don't do is no business of mine. Unlike some who post here, I don't think there is any one "right" way to approach this stuff. But the somewhat more eclectic approach that I used, worked very well for me. You have to find your own way.
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| electraglideman |
Posted - 07/18/2004 : 20:35:53
FARMERED,
Very, very, well said. Most people who have come here have already tried the physical. I even had surgery and I really wished I could have found this forum before surgery (disk removal). I would think that most people who suffer neck, back, and other pains are going to visit Sarno or reading his books to learn about TMS to releave the pain as a last resort. I mean really, who would believe being overweight is good for you. |
| FarmerEd |
Posted - 07/18/2004 : 19:40:11
Hello Gary,
You wrote:You pay $1000, get examined by a well-known doctor and diagnosed with psychogenic pain, go through a series of lectures, & do weeks or months of work on your own! Do you doubt that most people would at least report improvement in their condition? I would think that almost everyone would, just as the survey showed.
In the surveys, respondents were placed in one of 3 categories. Category 1 were those that reported full recovery, out of pain and leading normal lives. This category constitued 76% of the first survey and 88% of the second. The second category were those who showed some improvement but still had some pain and limited activity. This group made up 8% and 10% of the surveys. Category 3 were those that had no improvement and were considered treatment failures. This group made up 16% and 2% of the surveys.
The majority of the respondents reported full recovery, even though they were given the choice to report only some improvement. Your belief, that TMS sufferers whose pain is 100% psychogenic are in the minority, hinges on the majority of these respondents lying. I don't believe that many folks would lie about being fully recovered if they were only somewhat recovered and had the choice to report this.
If the majority of the respondents did not lie, then your position is wrong, and the best course of action for a new TMS sufferer to follow would be to assume all his chronic pain is psychogenic and start from there.
You wrote: That's an extraordinary claim, in my book, and demands extraordinary proof, and I don't see any.
That it is an extraordinary claim is your opinion. I doubt that Dr. Sarno believes that bad eating habits, no exercise, and smoking are unimportant and do not cause health problems which can be painful, as you have portrayed his position without checking to be sure, (have you written him about this?).
Dr Sarno also gave an example in one of his books that seems to contridict your theory. Decades ago secretaries worked long hours over mechanical typewriters with their backs bent, arms extended, diddling their fingers, without suffering from RSI. They did however get a lot of ulcers in that era. How could typewriting physically cause an ulcer and why did they not get RSI if it is due, at least in part, to body posture when they did the same type work often for longer hours?
Your claim that we somewhere along the way forgot how to walk correctly, and need to be reinstructed in the basics of how to do it, is equally extraordinary.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and on this topic you have supplied none.
Between the 2 extraordinary claims I choose to believe Dr. Sarno's.
Ed |
| austingary |
Posted - 07/18/2004 : 17:59:05
The two surveys I brought up that had the 76% and 88% success rate were conducted on patients Dr.Sarno had treated before he began to screen patients.
You pay $1000, get examined by a well-known doctor and diagnosed with psychogenic pain, go through a series of lectures, & do weeks or months of work on your own! Do you doubt that most people would at least report improvement in their condition? I would think that almost everyone would, just as the survey showed.
I have no doubt that some people have pain syndromes that are 100% psychogenic. Or that all or almost all pain is at least part psychogenic and might respond to anti-pain psychological work.
But we live in the USA in 2004 where most people are overweight, out of shape, do not exercise, work in situations that put constant strain on their bodies, and spend most of their time with modern labor-saving devices which their bodies could not have evolved to accommodate. Most people today also feel an incredible amount of mental stress.
Given this, I am asked to believe that, in almost everyone, their pain is solely related to the mental stress and none of it to the way they treat their physical bodies. I am asked to believe that somehow, in the evolutionary environment where our bodies were formed via natural selection, we evolved to accommodate cars and chairs and long rides in airplanes and working all day bent forward diddling a computer keyboard with our arms stretched out in front of us -- and no other exercise.
That's an extraordinary claim, in my book, and demands extraordinary proof, and I don't see any.
I am a believer in TMS, don't get me wrong, and I have used the anti-TMS psychological work for good results in my own life. But I don't believe Dr. Sarno's theory of how it works or his theory of how nothing else matters.
Guess there's something else in me besides my hamstrings that doesn't like to be overstretched -- my credulity. |
| FarmerEd |
Posted - 07/18/2004 : 14:19:12
Hello Gary,
Forgot to mention. The two surveys I brought up that had the 76% and 88% success rate were conducted on patients Dr.Sarno had treated before he began to screen patients. In your reply you seemed to indicate you thought these surveys were done on patients that had been screened.
Ed |
| FarmerEd |
Posted - 07/18/2004 : 14:08:44
Hello Gary,
You wrote; A. All anecdotal responses to surveys of this type are suspect. People who have gone though Sarno's classes, paid the $1000, told all their friends about it, etc. have a very large stake in responding positively to his surveys.
I would disagree with this. I surely don't have as much experience as Dr.Sarno in this area but most folks I have given his book to tend to be skeptical at the beginning, as I also was. That the method works is a source of amazement at the beginning. It is usually not until after they have recovered that they tell family and friends about it. Because of their doubts, and not wanting to appear odd, they rarely go around touting Dr.Sarno and his theories before they have had success with them. Dr. Sarno said in his book that patients usually come to him as a last result after spending thousands of dollars on other failed methods. They don't seem to have a problem expressing their dissatification with the other methods and if his did not work I doubt they would mind saying so.
Most come to Dr.Sarno with some doubts and if the methods did not work they would be more likely to chaulk it up as one more crackpot method tried and failed.
Dr Sarno's level to count treatment as a success is also much higher than most surveys. In most surveys if you feel any better they claim it as a success. In Dr.Sarno's the patient had to be free of pain and leading a normal life to be counted as a success(to see a more detailed description of Sarno's level to be considered "cured" read MBP pg 169-170). I just don't see the motivation for a person who has in their mind once again wasted time and money and is still in chronic pain to say they are pain free and leading a normal life.
For these reasons and others I tend to accept the survey as accurate and believe most TMS suffers' pain is 100% psychogenic.
Enjoyed debating with you Gary. I'm pretty busy during the week perhaps I can write again next Sunday.
Ed
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| austingary |
Posted - 07/18/2004 : 10:32:12
FarmerEd, I would have to go back and re-read those sections of Sarno's MBP about his patient surveys in order to respond specifically to this point. In general, I take all of this kind of thing from Sarno with a large grain of salt because:
A. All anecdotal responses to surveys of this type are suspect. People who have gone though Sarno's classes, paid the $1000, told all their friends about it, etc. have a very large stake in responding positively to his surveys. And...
B. When Dr. Sarno screens possible patients prior to treatment for belief in the TMS concept, he pretty much kills as credence being given to reports of their success, what they say about the treatment, etc. Which is not to say he should not do this; I understand why he does. But the bottom line is that Dr. Sarno's surveys are not anywhere near a scientific study of actual results from his approach.
Just as Dr. Sarno comes to all this with a huge bias based on the fact that he has devoted his life to this idea, I come to it with a bias toward people's problems being at least, in part, physcial (as distinct, I point out again, from structural) because I have been very much into nutrition and fitness over the past 25 years.
For me, to say that a large percentage of people with body pain have no physical reason whatsoever for any part of their pain -- not diet, not exercise or lack of it, not bodily habits, nothing -- but, in fact, they would be perfectly fine if only they thought differently, well, I think that is an extraordinary claim. Particularly in light of the known facts about the abysmal situation among the American population with regard to diet and exercise. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So, I don't believe that claim, not now, at least.
Dr. Sarno does pretty much preach that. He says that we have evolved so that our bodies are perfectly well-suited for modern life, in which we use our bodies in ways un-dreamed of just a century ago, much less in the evolutionary environment. Another extraordinary claim that would require much better proof that Dr. Sarno offers, which is none, actually. I think he is wrong on this point.
I am not really "looking for a reason for the remaining pain". For all practical purposes, I am not in pain. Pretty much all I had left a few months ago was some tightness and minor pain in my hamstrings and doing the Egoscue morning exercises wiped that out in about 3 weeks. |
| FarmerEd |
Posted - 07/18/2004 : 09:15:04
Gary wrote: The person whose pain is 100% based on repressed emotions (or a defense against them, if Sarno's theory is accurate) might, I agree, be "hindered" by dwelling on information that suggested the possibility of a physical cause for some or all of his pain. That person would probably be better off to simply immerse himself in doing the psychological anti-TMS work and stay away from any input that did not directly bolster that work.
But I don't think that applies to very many people
I agree that a person whose pain is 100% psychogenic would be hindered by dwelling on a physical cause for some or all of their pain. I believe this would be especially true early on in their recovery when their belief in the truth of Dr. Sarno's theories is not that strong and such thinking brings in doubts that can undermine the recovery.
I disagree though that the percentage of TMS sufferers whose pain is 100% psychogenic is small and that they are in the minority.
I reread the part of Sarno's book "Mindbody Prescription" that dealt with his follow-up surveys of his patients (Introduction pages 24-26). In his first follow up survey 76% of his patients were," leading normal lives and were essentially free of pain". In his second survey those leading normal lives free of pain had risen to 88%. This was before he bagan screening patients to make sure they had some degree of acceptance to the belief that pain can be psycologically induced. There is nothing to indicate that these people did anything except follow Sarno's program that assumed their pain was 100% psychogenic. From this I think it is obvious that the percent of TMS sufferers whose pain is 100% psychogenic is vastly in the majority.
Though it is a guess on Sarno's part, he believes the increased success rate between the first and second survey was due to an increased proficiency in his teaching about TMS which stimulated a stronger confidence (belief?) in the diagnosis, and that starting in 1985 he discontinued prescribing physical therapy because some patients focused on the physical treatments as a basis for relief that hindered their recovery.
I would be interested to see a current follow-up survey that showed his success rate since screening his patients for a minimum belief in pain being able to be produced psychogenicly. I believe it would be even higher.
Perhaps there are some TMS sufferers who have some true structural or postural part to their pain, but they are in the minority based on these surveys. As in your case Gary, I can see the wisdom in someone who has resolved the largest portion of their pain by working on the psychological component of their pain over a good amount of time looking for another possible reason for the remaining pain. I just don't think it is wise, based on these survey figures, to assume a physical reason for any part of the pain in the beginning. The odds favor the pain being psychogenic. |
| kenny V |
Posted - 07/17/2004 : 08:53:37
Tom
Thanks for you’re supporting words in my recovery.
It took 2-3 days to replenish my body fluids, I believe I was dehydrated last week when I took a double header fishing trip. I made a mistake and stretched through out the day when I became tight and my back became discomforted. It seems when my muscles became fatigued and loss body fluid that TMS decided to takes it place and settle in on the weakest point, the small of my back. I have been out of pain for some time now and it was disappointing to have pain come back in such a short time. After being in pain for 20 years then to be released for over 9 months or so, only to have a relapse brought my discouraging thoughts fast.
Today I need to be grateful that the relapse can be a reminder to celebrate and live each day like I have been given a second chance.
I am going to celebrate and relax and take another fishing trip this Monday.
Have you ever experienced a relapse in such a way?
Thanks for taking the time to clarify why you used the word resolved. It was paraphrasing when I used it.
*“But primarily the ill effects of TMS are due to repressed emotions and they must come out to get resolved”
I still hold firm to the “why we get chronic pain and continue to have it, is primarily due to this component.
As for
*Kenny, you mention that you were having difficulty shifting from the physical to the emotional, to quote you, "This is hard to do when you don't know what you are shifting to".
I do not have trouble with this area. I certainly know the things, which trouble me, and I have had worries about care taking of family members. And the anger I have been working on has been quite a release from the prison I was in. I am finally at peace with the world around me again, and being out of pain keeps me less grumpy.
I was only stating this as an example of how it is EASIER to ISSOLATE a REPRESSED EMOTION when you have EXPOSED it and DEALT with it in a PRODUCTIVE fashion.
Therefore working on repressed emotions maintenance as they come out, get RESOLVED.
Take Care TT
Always Hope For Recovery
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/17/2004 : 01:58:52
Kenny,
I did not use the word "RESOLVE", you did! I was just quoting you in your post of 7/15-11:17:38. To quote you, "But primarily the ill effects of TMS are due to repressed emotions and they must come out to get resolved". To reinterate, Sarno says you do NOT have to discover any deep psychological problem to stop the pain. You just need to understand how the TMS process works in distracting the mind from the emotions by creating psychogenic phyical pain. You need to shift your attention from the pyhsical to the emotional. Sarno says that just making the mindshift can stop the TMS pain as it did for his migraines.
Kenny, you mention that you were having difficulty shifting from the physical to the emotional, to quote you, "This is hard to do when you don't know what you are shifting to". I suggest you read MBP, p. 26, the list of 43 life events that can cause "disease" through the mechanism of internal rage. I have personally identified at least 10 of these events that have contributed to my TMS induced pain.
Kenny, using your posts as Rorschach for your TMS, it seems to me that your pain may be caused by your obsession to be friend's with everyone on the planet. This is an impossible task, and I would think the impossibility of it along with the constant rejections would fuel an unlimited pool of rage. Your obsession with Gary may also be fueling your TMS. It's like back in high school asking someone out for a date and not getting the hint after the third rejection. I recall getting the hint after an x-high school flame of mine told me she had to stay home on Friday night to wash her sweaters. I didn't bother calling her again. After following and admitting to be somewhat entertained by the exchange of barbs, Kenny, I think it's time to give it up. Obviously, Gary is not interested in dialoging with you and your questions to him appear to be of a baiting nature. It should be obvious by now that Gary is not interested in the bait. Good luck on your road to recovery and I hope this helps. |
| Wilf |
Posted - 07/16/2004 : 11:39:46
I agree with Gary that not all pain is psychogenic. When I first started applying Sarno’s approach to healing my back and neck problems, I began to experience severe swelling in my hands and feet and I developed pain in areas that had not been painful previously, i.e. the front of the hips and the inside of the legs. These leg pains were so severe that I had unbelievable difficulty sitting and standing. I had a constant chill and I woke up every morning with extreme stiffness throughout my whole body. I also experienced a loss of appetite and weight.
I thought this was TMS manifesting itself in other ways.
I phoned Dr. Schechter and he informed me that severe swelling is usually NOT a manifestation of TMS. He advised me to get checked out. I was referred to an Internal Medicine specialist who diagnosed my condition as Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR), an inflammatory rheumatic condition (poly = many; myalgia = aching muscles). It is treated with Prednisone which produces dramatic resolution of symptoms. I took that drug for almost 2 years, and I am now virtually free of PMR.
I discovered that my condition had been coming on slowly for about 3 or 4 months before I started applying Sarno. That is why I was so confused when symptoms started getting worse when I began to “think psychologically”. My first post to this Board was an inquiry to ascertain if anyone had experienced PMR and the pain associated with it. The only reply I got was from someone who warned me not to go off prednisone abruptly. I already knew that.
It is interesting to note that most of the pain that I knew was TMS, has resolved itself. You are correct Gary, everyone is different.
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