| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| smth416 |
Posted - 04/18/2005 : 23:41:09
I was wondering how other members feel about taking meds, not for pain but for the brain.
My doctor accepts the way I treat my pain. He also thinks an Anti-depressant drug like Elavil or XanaX would help me. Since TMS is treated as a mind disorder, is taking meds to help your mind heal your body a mistake? I know Baseball65 has found XanaX effective but no longer needs it.Thanks Al |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dave |
Posted - 05/17/2005 : 09:41:00
quote:
Originally posted by art
Al wrote quote:
I know Sarno changed his opinion on pyhsical therapy for TMS,
This is interesting to me and I wonder if you could elaborate..Since I would have assumed that he would not think physical therapy a good or necessary, or helpful thing, I'm guessing now he thinks it might be?
Actually, it's the other way around.
Early on, Sarno perscribed physical therapy for his patients, figuring the temporary relief could not hurt.
Later he stopped perscribing physical therapy and had much better results. He concluded that the PT forced the patient to focus on the physical. |
| art |
Posted - 05/17/2005 : 00:27:33
Al wrote quote:
I know Sarno changed his opinion on pyhsical therapy for TMS,
This is interesting to me and I wonder if you could elaborate..Since I would have assumed that he would not think physical therapy a good or necessary, or helpful thing, I'm guessing now he thinks it might be?
If so, I'd love to hear the rationale..
Incidentally, for what it's worth, I took xanax for many years. In the wrong person it can be a very dangerous drug. If you're the type who has abused drugs in the past, tread carefully..Doesn't sound like that's the case with anyone who posted to this thread, but just thought I'd mention it..even in moderate doses it can have an intoxicating effect..It can also cause short term memory problems if you take too much..
Anti-depressant's on the other hand, do none of these things..
Still, I've a great respect for the damage that anxiety can cause in the body, mind, and spirit..for someone suffering debilitating anxiety, benzos can be a life saver..
Each of us must look into our selves and answer these questions as best we can...not easy. And in the end we all have to find our own way...
Many thanks,
A. |
| smth416 |
Posted - 05/16/2005 : 23:16:10
Baseball-"I wouldn't go so far to say that your anxiety isn't TMS....that's like saying a brick isn't a building...true it's not a building,but it's definitely part and definitely related."
Baseball,
Look I believe 100% in Sarno and TMS. But does every malady we face as humans TMS? Don't you think maybe I'm depressed and it has nothing to do with TMS?
One of my TMS equivalents was acne, does this mean every adult with acne has TMS?
As far as my saying too much forum may hinder my recovery, you seem to follow me. I am not saying this is true for all, just me. I just don't think I can benefit from hearing stories of TMS equivalents completely unrelated to my TMS symptoms.Hearing Maryalma tell us she may have stigmata like wounds caused by TMS will do nothing but scare me and make me paranoid.
Also, not being a TMS expert, as many of the forum's posters are, I don't see myself giving anyone on the forum useful advice.
Please understand, I think this forum provides a wonderful support community for TMSers. I'm just do not believe every ailment a person gets is nessasarly TMS. That's why I feel reading every thread, everyday is not good for me right now.
I have had anxiety and mild depression for some time now, but my TMS pain started six months ago. I need to take medication right now and I view it as being separate from my TMS recovery(80% there)
Thanks again -Al |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 05/16/2005 : 22:11:31
Hi
smth416
I'm sure you're going to get a flame here or there from some of the ultra-purists,but I don't think there's a big deal about about taking xanax,as long as your still pursuing a psychological introspective solution.
I wouldn't go so far to say that your anxiety isn't TMS....that's like saying a brick isn't a building...true it's not a building,but it's definitely part and definitely related.
The whole MBP approach is to break down the barriers that the Cartesian medical view has fostered...that there are 'compartmentalized' aspects of our life...it's all connected.
In the meantime,you sound fine.I look at it as a boat.We get in the boat to cross a river.Just remember to get out of the boat on the other side,or the journey is stuck right there in the boat.
Reading the forum is not necessary for recovery....it didn't exist when I got over the majority of my symptoms.....I wonder if I would have recovered as fast if I had dropped a question for each and every little nagging doubt.Ultimately,we all have to work it out alone.
Peace
Baseball65 |
| smth416 |
Posted - 05/16/2005 : 21:17:35
Hi forum,
I have recently stopped reading the forum every day. I felt that in my case, trying to not think about my TMS has helped more then carefully reading every thread. I do ,however, feel this forum has helped me alot and do read the posts every few days.
There are many wonderful people on here, but the truth is my case is fairly mild compared to most of them.
I have read threads were members describe TMS equivalents that I couldn't even imagine the brain could concoct. I just don't see how reading that helps me, a person who has had mild depression followed by severe neck pain for six months.
Sarno's books and TMShelp have cured this neck pain about 80% by my current estimation.
I use this thread because I wanted to revisit the idea of taking anti-depressants in TMS recovery. I have now been taking 1mg of Xanax a day for about a month. Although I don't intend to take it indefinitly, it has helped me greatly. Could worrying that taking Xanax because it may hurt my TMS recovery(placebo), actually hurt my recovery from depression?
I have earlier stated that my depression/anxiety is not TMS or a TMS symptom. I still feel this is true. My anxiety is attributed to many things that are happening in my life. This includes my TMS pain, pressure at work, a tough breakup, buying my first home, etc.
I take the Xanax about 900pm and it does not "tranquilize" me as some have suggested it may. It does calm my nerves and helps me unwind from a typical stressful day on the floor of the NYMEX. It also puts me in a better mood when i am down. I am able to function properly while on it and nobody notices I take it.
I wonder if this changes anyone's opinion on the subject.
Maybe since I don't feel my anxiety is TMS I shouldn't even talk about it on the forum.
Thanks again. -Al
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| smth416 |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 14:50:56
I appreciate the feedback guys. I guess my original question can not be answered with a simple "Yes" or "NO". Each person has a unique story and I do believe that some of us do need to take pills for anxiety, pain and depression. I also agree that these meds shouldn't be taken on a long term basis. -Al |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 14:57:29
Hi Al
I took low dose valium for around six to seven months, starting around the time I found out about Dr Sarno's work. I'm pretty sure that it helped my recovery - I feel that it helped keep me in the calm frame of mind that allowed me to work successfully to overcome the dreadful back pain. Also, I have not reverted to an anxious type of personality since coming off it around two years ago.
Unusually, my GP was quite happy to prescribe it when I suggested it - as long as I kept the dosage low. It's quite difficult to get doctors to prescribe valium in the UK for anything other than a very short course.
I weaned off it over about three weeks with no problems and have never wanted to take it since.
I know that some people don't get on well with anti-anxiety meds, like valium, but they worked very well for me.
Best wishes
Anne
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| moose1 |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 06:31:43
I've taken a few anti-depressants in the past to deal with my back pain, and they all made me feel emotionally dead, gave me nightmares and made me feel like my head was full of glue. For me, taking these things for back pain was a mistake. I may have been anxious and depressed, but only because of my pain. I wasn't clinically depressed first. I can see how they work wonders for some, but for me it was just another instance of barking up the wrong tree.
Best,
Moose |
| smth416 |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 02:38:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Baseball65
xanax is basically a tranquilizer,where elavil is one of those drugs that plays with your brain chemistry.....do you want to be in a really good mood when you're digging up repressed anger?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Baseball65,
Never taking them, I really can't agree or disagree with how these respective pills make you feel, but doing online research it seems that XanaX is much different from Elavil.
The effects of Xanax are felt inmmediatly, but like you said Elavil takes weeks to start being effective.
XanaX (which is classified as a natcotic) makes you drowsy while Elavil(non-narcotic) does not. Also, feeling happy while digging up repressed anger might be what I need right now.
I also don't think my anxiety is a TMS symptom for me. I feel this way because I can identify all the things(besides TMS) in my life that cause anxiety. These include working a very stressful job, fear of work-related, mandatory business trips (I have a fear of flying).I also have anxiety over buying my first house. I know that my TMS-related neck pain (which returned recently) causes me to be anxious and depressed. Therefore, TMS indirectly causes me anxiety.
Hi Hillary,
I have been a little depressed recently. This is due to some of the things I've written above and a recent bad breakup after a long relationship. I also have seen my TMS neck pain return over the last two weeks.
My doctor prescibed the Elavil a month ago, but I never used the scipt because of some of the side effects it can cause. He recommended the Xanax now as more of a short term thing to deal with my recent anxiety and depression.
You seem to think that Elavil is alright to take for years if needed, but XanaX should be taken only as needed.
By hearing some of the things causing me to be anxious and depressed, dou you think an SSRI could help me? Do you think a benzo could also help me?
Hi Dave,
Again, I'm pretty certain that my anxiety is not a TMS symptom. I feel that way for many reasons. The main reason being the ffact that I had anxiety attacks before my TMS pain began.
I agree that these meds should not be taken indefinitly, but probably could help a person short term.
Hi Kenny,
When Sarno revised his opinion on treating TMS with meds I interpreted that to be about painkillers. Sarno said more then once that he's not a Physchologist.
Does Sarno believe a depressed or anxious person shouldn't take meds
for it? Doesn't he even recommend taking a strong painkiller during a TMS pain attack.
I know Sarno changed his opinion on pyhsical therapy for TMS, but honestly don't recall him changing his opinion about using a pain
killer during a TMS pain attacks. However, I am sure that he would not recommend drugs for a patient who's anxiety is clearly a TMS equivalent.
I really dont attribute my depression to TMS, but was just curious how the forum felt about these anxiety meds which certainly, if nothing else, exacerbate my TMS.
I also agree that today's doctors do not go to the root thier patients
physical or mental disorders. Instead, they mask the symptoms with pills. But Today's average person is probably inclined to ask for pills if they're depressed or in pain.
I respect all your opinions and agree with each of you on some level.
But I feel treatment, especially for depression, can not be generalized. Everybody is different and some people need the help of medicine to live a normal life.
Thanks again -Al |
| kenny V |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 11:12:15
quote:
I'd also like to add that there's a common misperception out there that anti-depressants put you in a really good mood. This really isn't true. My experience of taking Zoloft is that it doesn't make you perpetually happy –
Ill agree with this quote:
Some people need a bit of help with their brain chemistry. There's no shame in that.
But it DOES put you to a place where you can actually start to deal with some underlying psychological issues.
In most cases this is far and few mentioning the need of altering brain chemistry to promote proper body function.
That is not to mean that drugs such as lithium (which shouldn’t even been classified as drug) because it actually produced normal within the body and is only effective when the blood level lithium level is stabilized. Again understanding this is still a common problem in Mainstream medical practices Bc who is to say what is the proper amount and what else can you can do to promote the body from regulating this on it’s own. For the reader lithium is one of the non-aggressive forms of drugs used in BI- polar disorder (manic-depressive
Even today this is a common misconception. And unfortunately, going back to the stone age (prior to the 60”s) they weren't as knowledgeable in this and prescribed many mind altering drugs instutionising many patents for life, not to mention shock therapy and some other cruel means of top shelf state of the art medical advancements.
Sorry, Cannot agree with these statements. First of all most drugs block a signal or ALTER a change in chemistry. So why not accelerate the bodies natural process by other means such as supplementation and dealing with the psychological issues. Let the body repair itself. You already have this mechanism in place why not tap into it.
And again may I ask out of all the drugs that have been mentioned so far, how many of us have actually have a deficiency to any of them and what type of testing profile would verify this with?
quote:
That said, I think it's important to get a proper work-up from the doctor before taking medication. smth416, are you feeling depressed currently? I'm curious to know why your doctor suggested taking medication. It also seems a bit unclear as to whether he feels a tranquilizer or an anti-depressant is right for you.
Let me ask everyone one question.
What doctor have we seen up until this point, who can properly diagnose? Treat the body as a whole, without just treating symptoms rather than an underlying condition?
I have not found one yet. Sure there are specialists in a field of practice. The ones who are serious in what they do are rare and hard to come by, especially in the mainstream medical community.
They might only take few patients and spend the rest of their time studying so they can properly treat their patents.
I don’t mean to arrogant but do I make any sense here?
Am I wasting my words, because that is what got us all here in the first place?
Always Hope For Recovery
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| kenny V |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 09:37:10
Excellent points Dave.
I am in company with you on that one. Not to Mention Sarno has also addressed the issue in the same perspective. This is rather enlightening yet quiet typical, especially him coming from a standard MD background.
Always Hope For Recovery
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| Hilary |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 09:34:23
quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
xanax is basically a tranquilizer,where elavil is one of those drugs that plays with your brain chemistry.....do you want to be in a really good mood when you're digging up repressed anger?
I'm not sure I agree with this. Xanax (which is a benzodiazepine), and elavil (a tricyclic antidepressant) or any of the SSRI's (Zoloft, Prozac and so on) all effectively "play with your brain chemistry", but I don't see this as a reason not to use them as and when they're required. Some people need a bit of help with their brain chemistry. There's no shame in that.
Anti-depressants usually take 3 to 6 weeks to start having an effect, and you need to take them consistently when you start. The benzos can usually be taken on an as-needed basis (during intense anxiety or panic attacks, for example). Most doctors advocate not taking benzos for long periods of time because they're addictive. SSRI's aren't addictive, and you can be on them for years.
I'd also like to add that there's a common misperception out there that anti-depressants put you in a really good mood. This really isn't true. My experience of taking Zoloft is that it doesn't make you perpetually happy - but it DOES put you to a place where you can actually start to deal with some underlying psychological issues.
Being in pain continually can have a devestating effect on the psyche, and can actually trigger an episode of major depression. The more depressed you are, the harder you're going to have to fight TMS, because you're also having to fight the depression as well. Anti-depressants alleviate depression, and that alone can make the TMS battle easier.
That said, I think it's important to get a proper work-up from the doctor before taking medication. smth416, are you feeling depressed currently? I'm curious to know why your doctor suggested taking medication. It also seems a bit unclear as to whether he feels a tranquilizer or an anti-depressant is right for you. |
| Dave |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 09:16:53
I believe in the short-term it could be helpful, to get you going in the right direction. I see it the same as pain meds, a way to get over the acute symptoms while you work on the long-term solution. Anxiety is a TMS equivalent, so taking a Xanax for that is really no different than taking a Tylenol for the pain.
However, using such meds long-term is akin to masking the symptoms, when you really need to be working on the cause. |
| kenny V |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 07:39:18
quote:
xanax is basically a tranquilizer,where elavil is one of those drugs that plays with your brain chemistry
The thing to be concerned about is a placebo effect.If you take a med like xanax or an SSRI,you might equate your recovery with them,and of course you don't want that.It's a question of value in your brain.
On a related note: I found it interesting during my pain odyssey that painkillers(vicodin,demerol,morphine,etc.) did very little to eradicate my pain..
I found xanax effective after I had completely recovered from the physical part of TMS,was left
You are always going to have to evaluate this stuff for yourself.One thing to also consider is that elavil,paxil,prozac,zoloft etc....take about 2 months to balance and stabilize in your system
BTW..I still take a xanax from time to time,though it's been fewer and farther between as time progresses.Just being on this forum has helped me deal with a lot of the details that were causing my 'anxiety'
but every night before I went to bed I took a VALIUM for sleep....my pain was always the lowest from the time I took the valium until the morning when it wore off.Valium has an anti-anxiety characteristic to it.....Hmmmm...seemed to fit well with the TMS model.
....I recovered from TMS in half that time by just working really hard...maybe you won't need them???
Just an observation, please re-read the comments above BC they seem to be contradictive in nature.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying you haven’t found a solution and haven’t successfully treated your own condition.
But what I am saying is what you have discovered is already relevant to what Sarno has already expounded on.
He has already stated his position and written about the use of drugs with TMS treatment.
If you follow his work after 30 years of studying pain and treating his patients has retracted his original position with treating TMS with the use of drugs in the same way he spoke of the use of physical therapy.
IMO in his latest book MBP, he discusses how this may be counter productive to the work of TMS.
quote:
On a related note: I found it interesting during my pain odyssey that painkillers(vicodin,demerol,morphine,etc.) did very little to eradicate my pain..
xanax is basically a tranquilizer,where elavil is one of those drugs that plays with your brain chemistry
You are always going to have to evaluate this stuff for yourself.One thing to also consider is that elavil,paxil,prozac,zoloft etc....take about 2 months to balance and stabilize in your system
Again just an observation
And if I may make a comment about drugs in general. Drugs are nothing new to the bodies’ ability to neither properly function on its own nor the receptors in the brain. They often times block the message and completing the process that the brain would naturally make on its own if properly addressed. (Remember treating the underlying condition rids the symptom)
Lets me ask one question does anyone have a deficiency of any of the drugs listed above?
That is why the mainstream medical community doesn’t teach how you can promote proper metabolic responses with use of supplementation.
Besides they are not schooled in proper nutrition So IMO unless you can prove that you have a deficiency than you are only masking the problem and not addressing the underlying condition.
Just my 2 cents
Always Hope For Recovery
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| Baseball65 |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 05:56:51
Hi smth416
The thing to be concerned about is a placebo effect.If you take a med like xanax or an SSRI,you might equate your recovery with them,and of course you don't want that.It's a question of value in your brain.
I found xanax effective after I had completely recovered from the physical part of TMS,was left with that reservoir of anger/rage and was having trouble NOT getting into altercations at work.I don't think that it would have helped early on,because it would have mitigated my anger at a lot of people I needed to feel good and angry at.
xanax is basically a tranquilizer,where elavil is one of those drugs that plays with your brain chemistry.....do you want to be in a really good mood when you're digging up repressed anger?
On a related note: I found it interesting during my pain odyssey that painkillers(vicodin,demerol,morphine,etc.) did very little to eradicate my pain...but every night before I went to bed I took a VALIUM for sleep....my pain was always the lowest from the time I took the valium until the morning when it wore off.Valium has an anti-anxiety characteristic to it.....Hmmmm...seemed to fit well with the TMS model.
You are always going to have to evaluate this stuff for yourself.One thing to also consider is that elavil,paxil,prozac,zoloft etc....take about 2 months to balance and stabilize in your system...I recovered from TMS in half that time by just working really hard...maybe you won't need them???
BTW..I still take a xanax from time to time,though it's been fewer and farther between as time progresses.Just being on this forum has helped me deal with a lot of the details that were causing my 'anxiety'
Just some thoughts...
peace
Baseball65 |
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