| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| lobstershack |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 19:50:57
Hi forum,
It's me, Seth. I have been working feverishly as the semester draws to a close--I'm graduating in May (from college)--and as a result have not been able to post as much as I'd like to. But what I have been doing--in addition to school work--is reading a lot of the books that AnneG recommended to me in addition to a few others. I have found them very helpful on a number of different levels. In the end though, many of the underlying messages are the same, be it Claire Weekes' "Peace from Nervous Suffering" or Rick Carson's "Taming the Gremlin".
It's quite interesting: the more I read and the more time passes the more I am able to fully realize as well as recognize just how much I have been living in the past, and how many of my recurrent thoughts that I never connected to OCD, anxiety or TMS, are in fact genuine manifestations of these disorders.
Case in point: my skin. For the past few years one of my obsessions has been a constant checking and worrying about the condition of my skin. Now it wasn't until recently that I figured out that this in and of itself was keeping me constantly thinking about and fixed on my body. Since this wasn't a painful symptom I did not correlate it at all to TMS. For the past week or so I have really been working on it and I have been able to drastically cut down on the amount of time I spend ruminating on my face.
As I mentioned earlier I have been really trying to live in the present, as opposed to living inside my head, and I must say, it's strange. Very strange.
And here's another case in point: in the beginning of embarking TMS treatment I was still living in my head, but it was just so natural for me that the thought that it was in fact antithetical to TMS never ever crossed my mind. Again, it took months for me to realize this.
So what am I saying? That not everything comes to you right away and as soon as you would like it to. It's a process and as time passes realizations will come, and I have been making a concerted effort to fully grasp this notion as it is hard. But patience is a virtue (I'm quoting my father, oiy!).
Basically what remains of my "physical" or "structural" attributions is something I have mentioned on this board before, but am having a hard time trying to dismiss, although I have recognized it as the gremlin manifest, which is equally important in my opinion. And that is the nervous fear that my chronic headache and other symptoms (but mostly the headache) is being caused by the antidepressant medications I am currently taking. Now this is silly, I know; especially since my symptoms were present long before starting the meds.
I take 300mg of Wellbutrin SR (an average dose I'd say) and 50mg of Lexapro (on the high side, I believe that 20 is the set maximum). I am aware though that oftentimes maximums are nothing more than guidelines and that OCD generally requires higher-than-average doses compared to other disorders. I've spoken about this concern with my therapist who is behind me in believing that this is nothing more than OCD/TMS/"the gremlin" sneakily trying to shake things up.
But I just can't seem to get this notion out of my head. I believe I just have to keep repudiating it, as hard as that may be. If I weren't involved in the psychosomatic causation of my symptomotology by now I probably would have convinced my psychiatrist to wean me off all meds in which case I probably not only would not have seen any improvement in my physical symptoms, but the state of my mental health probably would have deteriorated as well.
Somehow I have convinced myself that everything is gone and that the only reason I still have painful symptoms is because I'm taking these medications! It's so silly, but so real and so hypnotic.
Over the past few weeks I have also been feeling a little "blue", not depression really, just not off-the-wall jubilance. Whereas in the past I would have myself worried about this, I am just floating through it, realizing that it is in fact ok to not to feel happy and bubbly all the time.
As I stated earlier I'm graduating from college in May and soon will be looking for a job and an apartment. I’m trying hard to live day by day, because it's not healthy to spend each and every day obsessing about my post-college plans. So much stress!
This post is getting lengthy. So I will conclude by saying that I am learning new things everyday that I feel are integral to my recovery, but it is a slow process--at least for me.
I almost forgot, yet another realization I have come to is that much of this theory is not as complicated as my mind wants it to be. And that's key. It's all very simple and trying to purposely complicate things just prevents progress. Am I explaining myself clearly?
My therapist also mentioned that I'm all about extremes, as many TMS prone individuals are. And that while he fully believes in the mindbody component of illnesses, we should not become zealots. This was hard for me to take at first because I got very defensive inside ,my mind started racing: does this mean he doesn't belive in me? Is everything I am doing for naught?
Nothing more than a silly storyline.
I just get frustrated that my therapist doesn't follow Sarno's theory VERBATIM.
I hope everyone is well!
Seth |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Caroline |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 14:37:28
quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
But Caroline, does that mean that you don't believe in diagnoses like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and major depression?
I do but I think that psychoactive drugs should be the last resort, not the first line of treatment. Psychiatrists are encouraged to treat everything with drugs with sometimes devastating consequences (re rash of teen suicides following SSRI treatment)which is why I don't trust this type of doctor. You seem to have tried traditional psyschotherapy first and it didn't work so drugs may be the only solution for you. However, they do come with side effects, dependence and withdrawal issues, and they do not cure anything, just treat the symptoms. We all have a sense of what works for us. I was merely expressing my own opinion, I certainly would not want to see them taken off the market if they work for some people! |
| lobstershack |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 14:18:54
Hi,
Exciting news: I spoke with my psychiatrist and we have both decided--notice how I said BOTH, underscoring the effort that not only the mental health practitioner must put in, but the patient as well--to begin tapering down on the Lexapro. So that's what I'm currently doing, albeit SLOWLY, VERY SLOWLY. This is key.
Suz, all I can really say is that one day I just did it. I stopped thinking about when I should stop all the lotions and potions and just did. And then when I found myself thinking about my skin--which I still do from time to time--I would remind myself that although the acne was not painful per se (not like, say, a headache), it was still keeping me focused on my body.
I'm doing incredible guys. I graduate in two days. I'm so proud of myself!
I'll post more when everything settles down.
Be well all.
Seth |
| Hilary |
Posted - 05/16/2005 : 15:45:20
But Caroline, does that mean that you don't believe in diagnoses like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and major depression?
Psych meds may be over-prescribed. And they may be a blunt instrument in dealing with mental health problems, but right now they're one of the only instruments we have.
I went round and round for years in therapy without getting anywhere. It wasn't until Zoloft cleared away the clouds of depression that I was actually able to make sense of what was going on in therapy - and start to feel better.
It's all academic anyway, because there's a reason these drugs are so popular: the people who take them find that they work. Perhaps my doctor is "brainwashed" (which I doubt), but I don't really care: I take my meds because help me to function normally and feel a full range of emotions, including peace and happiness. It's an unpopular viewpoint, but I for one am enormously grateful to the Evil Pharmaceutical Industry.
quote:
Originally posted by Caroline
quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
[ based on a wealth of experience and neglect would have to say that I have an enduring Bias.
Baseball65
I have exactly the same bias. I will only see clinical psychologists and avoid psychiatrists like the plague. Because I work with the pharma industry on a daily basis, I am aware of their methods, particularly the way they brainwash doctors into prescribing their drugs. As far as I can tell, the American Asociation of Psychiatrists is completely in the hands of the pharma industry.
In addition to this insight, I have personally experienced painful withdrawals from antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs only to end up back to square one, with the same problems I had before. As far as I am concerned, psychiatric drugs are dangerous and should only be prescribed when everything else (particularly talk therapy) has failed.
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| Caroline |
Posted - 05/16/2005 : 15:25:32
quote:
Originally posted by Baseball65
[ based on a wealth of experience and neglect would have to say that I have an enduring Bias.
Baseball65
I have exactly the same bias. I will only see clinical psychologists and avoid psychiatrists like the plague. Because I work with the pharma industry on a daily basis, I am aware of their methods, particularly the way they brainwash doctors into prescribing their drugs. As far as I can tell, the American Asociation of Psychiatrists is completely in the hands of the pharma industry.
In addition to this insight, I have personally experienced painful withdrawals from antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs only to end up back to square one, with the same problems I had before. As far as I am concerned, psychiatric drugs are dangerous and should only be prescribed when everything else (particularly talk therapy) has failed.
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| Suz |
Posted - 05/16/2005 : 15:11:03
Seth,
How did you get the courage to give up using the creams for your skin? I still do as I am convinced my skin is related to food intolerances. The doctors did some blood tests and found severe allergies to eggs and almonds. I ate eggs over the weekend and my skin totally broke out.
According to Sarno, my allergies are TMS equivalents of the brain.
It is so hard to know who to believe.
Congrats by the way on all your amazing improvements!
Suz |
| Hilary |
Posted - 05/16/2005 : 12:52:53
Baseball!
I read this your response on the subject of meds a while ago - haven't been around for a bit - and then lost the thread (so to speak). Just discovered the search feature! I wanted to get back to you after you'd written such an informative post.
Your post was really interesting. It made me uncomfortable, partly because you received such ****ty treatment, and partly because I can't deny that I'm never totally happy about being on meds.
Then again, I don't think anyone who takes this stuff would actually choose to do so. Sometimes it really is a matter of life and death.
It sounds as if you received incredibly bad (and unethical) treatment. It's mind-boggling how shrinks can act like this given the fact that they are treating our minds! I was lucky enough to have a very good experience of psychiatric treatment. when I was making good money in New York, I went to see a therapist who was also a psychiatrist. She put me on Zoloft and that led me out of my depression and on to the path of being able to do some extremely valuable work in therapy. I wouldn't have been able to get there without the meds, however.
I guess the bottom line is that we all have to decide our own healing philosophies as we go along based on who we meet and the kind of treatment we receive at their hands. I'm certainly glad I "met" Dr Sarno, because he puts healing back in our own hands.
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| lobstershack |
Posted - 04/23/2005 : 13:19:35
Hi,
It's been a few days or so and I'm doing much better. I must thank everyone for their input, especially AnneG for recommending a handful of books which helped her during her recovery. I found Claire Weekes' book Peace from Nervous Suffering--dated as it is--to be vital, I highly recommend it.
I really feel as though I am truly beginning to accept TMS fully, that is, not buying into the whole medication-I'm-on-causing-side effects plot. It's hard, but in order to recover this is necessary.
Also, I am doing great with my skin. I stopped all face products and also started treating it as TMS, which it was. Now my face is so much clearer, all I use is Cetaphil by the way, great stuff.
It's essential to remember, and Weekes mentions this quite often, that you will have set backs; and when they occur, you need not think you are "back to square one," as I often did.
In addition, I realized that I would often put off doing the work, which as you all know is not allowed. I got into the habit of saving it for the end of the day before I went to bed when I was exhausted, so now I'm working in the morning or afternoon.
I'll let everyone know things are going in a few days or so, Passover calls.
Happy Passover to all those who celebrate!
Thank you all again.
Seth |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 13:04:23
Hi Hilary,
I'm sure you are correct when you say that we can't all heal our minds with our minds and certainly, meds for depression and anxiety are life saving for some people. However, people who post here, or should I say the people who post here because they are pretty much convinced that their physical pain is psychological in origin, are in the process of doing just that - healing their minds with their minds.
I could be way off the mark, but it appears to me that most of us are not seriously depressed, we wouldn't be capable of pulling ourselves up by our boot-strings - doing the psychological work, re-starting physical activities long abandoned in many cases - if we were depressed in the clinical sense.
Best wishes
Anne
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| Baseball65 |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 10:51:44
BTW....
I forgot to mention one other thing.
Once upon a time in a county run halfway house,I made friends with a young man who was on meleril(I think that's thorazine,or just like it)
He seemed fairly normal except from the side effects of the meds...a little droop eyed and shuffly in his walk.I was talking with him one day and asked him why he needed his meds.I foolishly suggested that maybe he didn't need them.
He had previously been attacked with a Baseball bat and had brain damage as a result.It was sort of eerie looking at photos he showed me of himself before the attack...smiling,thinner,more alert looking,beautiful girlfriend,slick car....sort of your typical "Player"
Now he was a slowed down,chubby,less responsive passive type.
One day we received a phone call from a Bank in Sherman Oaks,Ca.(20 miles away....he had no car,no money)
He was in the Bank and had apparently walked right into the Safe deposit box area and was loitering when security apprehended him.He told the security guard that he was there to report for active duty and that Margaret Thatcher had requested his presence.This was right before the first gulf war.
We rushed to the Bank to retrieve him and were glad they had called us rather than the police.We drove him home in silence,and called his family and doctor.While waiting for them to call back,he 'escaped' and a few hours later we were called by a machine shop a few miles away.Apparently he had walked into their lobby,poured himself a cup of coffee and taken off his shoes to relax and watch TV.
We watched him closer after that,and much to my horror,had to drive him to Olive View Hospital in Sylmar Ca. that evening to be admitted to the Psych Ward(a nasty dirty county run hospital).I remember the guilt and shame I felt as being the one who suggested he stop his meds...Nobody blamed me and he himself didn't say he did it at my suggestion,but the image of leaving him in that place still haunts me....
So...I* guess what I'm saying is,I don't presume to know who should or should not be on meds....they don't work for me,but perhaps they help others....I hate know-it-alls and I don't ever want to be one.....
I'm certain that the people who prescribe them think they are helping and in some cases(like my friends) they are absolutely right.
...just a note(and a guilty conscience)
M.R.
Baseball65 |
| Baseball65 |
Posted - 04/22/2005 : 07:03:23
quote:
You seem to feel that there's something inherently sinister lurking in the mental health field.
-Baseball65
Hi Hilary and Seth.
Hilary,...Ma'am,You are CORRECT !!
I have no beef with Therapy at all.I think it is a very important part of the self discovery journey to beat TMS,or,just to have an aware experience on this planet.
I have had a series of bad experiences with negligent Doctors and psychiatrists prescribing "mind" meds.
As you know,I went through the whole 'recovery' business with chemical dependency...I was instantly declared Manic Depressive and put on Lithium after 30 days of being off of chemicals for the first time in 5 years!...Maybe wait and see how much is just learned inability to cope?
None the less,everybody was put on meds...everybody in the whole joint.You see,when you come up for air in the "recovery" business,they just switch out drugs.I saw men and women 10 days sober being prescribed all sorts of serious anti-psychotics,anti-depressants and the like.
Remember..now that alcoholism and addiction have been elevated to the status of 'disease' of course they need meds,right?
BTW...I had only the violent Mania type..never prolonged true depression.I hear the word 'bi-polar' thrown around very loosely.Being Moody is NOT being bi-polar.
I had a roomate who was a classic manic depressive....days and weeks of never sleeping,dreaming up remodel projects at three in the morning(and starting them)..running for weeks on tour with no sleep,no drugs
Than...locked in his room for days on end,refusing to talk to anyone,never eating or coming out AT ALL(we wondered when he went to the bathroom)...after living with him,I was certain I was NOT Bipolar,but rather just a moody S.O.B.
Than,virtually every Psych I saw who could prescribe meds did prescribe meds.....never wanted to sit and talk,find out what has happened in my life,or why I was so messed up..."just write a scrip and they'll feel better"
My experience was not unlike the experience that most of us had with our pain...there is a symptom so there HAS to be a cause,and everybody is deficient,so everybody needs meds.
I actually first went to a psych for my anger problem after the pain subsided.I specifically told him at the beginning of our first meeting that I would NOT see him if he prescribed meds.The arrogant $&^$$&!! tried to talk me into a scrip that very meeting,saying it was clear that I was 'depressed'.
I of course laughed at him and walked....to a therapist who could NOT prescribe(clinical psychologist) and guess what...I got better!
So,yes Hilary,I do think there is a sinister plot(not really)...
I think there is a current therapeutic negligence regarding medication in the psychological field.....I have yet to meet an MD who COULD prescribe meds who DIDN'T prescribe meds.
and my last supporting anecdote would have to be my best.
I went to see a Psychiatrist before I checked myself in to detox for Narcotic addiction.I was still addicted and on quite a bit of dope just to stay 'well'.I filled out a mountain of paperwork,and on each and every page where it said "what are you here for?" or "what is your main complaint?" I carefully wrote addiction to morphine and Hydrocodone/50mgs+150mgs per day.
The arrogant BSTrd came in,crossed his legs and wrote me a presciption for Naltrexone.It was only by sheer luck that my Pharmacist caught the descepancy in my meds and mentioned that if I was still on Narcotics,Naltrexone would at the very least send me into extreme withdrawals,would likely send me into a seizure,and could result in DEATH.
When I called his office and demanded an explanation,reminding them that I clearly stated my condition to them ,they didn't even apologize...just a dumbfounded sort of "Oh...well don't take it then"
Yes Hilary,based on a wealth of experience and neglect would have to say that I have an enduring Bias.
But we can still be friends,can't we?
peace
Baseball65 |
| Stryder |
Posted - 04/21/2005 : 21:51:41
quote:
Originally posted by floridaboy
TMS'ers think and live in the extreme...
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| Hilary |
Posted - 04/20/2005 : 18:11:07
I'm not sure what input you're looking for, Seth, but I have very strong feelings about the role of medication and therapy in treating anxiety and depression.
Baseball, I really love most of your posts, but I can't get behind your thinking on the role of meds, psychiatrists and therapists. You seem to feel that there's something inherently sinister lurking in the mental health field.
The reason to see a psychiatrist is that these guys are extremely well-trained in brain chemistry. They specialize, and GP's don't. Who would you rather consult on TMS - Dr Sarno, or your GP? It's the same question as far as I'm concerned.
Similarly, a good, ethical therapist isn't trying to protect his/her livelihood by binding you to him/her forever. Sure, there are some quacks out there - but I think it's going pretty far to suggest that all therapists are only in it for the money. I'm happy for you that you don't seem to need this kind of help, but that doesn't mean that other people don't get a hell of a lot out of seeing a therapist.
I also think that you need to be very, very careful asserting that we can all heal our minds WITH our minds. If you've never had clinical depression I can understand why you'd think this, but I can assure you that this is an extremely difficult and potentitally dangerous concept for people who suffer from clinical depression or extreme anxiety. It also creates a cycle of guilt about being on medication which, quite frankly, you don't need if you're already depressed.
This is really getting off the subject of TMS, but I think that the mental health area is one in which it may well be best to leave things to the experts. The kind of med combo Seth is on is very common. What may not work for one person may be a (literal) life-saver for another - so our own unique reactions to these medications is pretty much irrelevant.
Seth, I think it sounds like you've got a good combo going (psych, therapist and meds) which appears to be working for you. I'm not quite clear if you feel as if you should come off the meds - is that a cause of concern for you? |
| lobstershack |
Posted - 04/19/2005 : 13:09:11
any other thoughts out there?
Seth |
| lobstershack |
Posted - 04/18/2005 : 08:56:52
Regarding my psychiatrist, I must say that I stand behind him 100%. He is definitely not one to dole out scripts, in fact he is very careful utilizing these medications, and whenever I tried a new one we were increased the dosage very, very slowly so as to ward off any side effects that may occur.
Now the combination stems from the fact that the SSRIs that are often used to treat OCD sometimes need to be augmented with another drug in order to further potentiate the effectiveness. The only drug the I tried prior to this combo was Luvox, which didn't really help at all. And the only reason I find myself second-guessing my gremlin is that I had all the symptoms I have now years prior to taking the medications, with the exception of increased fatigue, which isn't a main concern right now.
These medications--which I've been on for a little over 1.5 years-- lifted me out of a terrible depression and while they did not transform my mental state, they rather gave me that push that I needed in order to begin therapy.
See, before I began Sarno/TMS, etc., the thought that these medications might be causing symptoms (which I repeat again, were all there prior to taking them) never arose. It wasn't until I began the work that my mind began racing. And while I had it under control for a while, now that I'm almost positive that my symptoms are not being caused by any of my previous diagnoses, the thoughts regarding the meds are back with a vengeance.
In addition, I've been feeling a little "down" for the past week or so, not really depressed per se, just not as well as I was doing a few weeks ago. This seemed to coincide with finishing the books I mentioned in my earlier post and really beginning to apply the techniques mentioned within.
I guess the stage I'm in now is one of confusion. 
Seth |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/18/2005 : 02:28:45
Hi Seth
It sounds to me that you are in a transition phase; one that I recall going through also; ie - that scary time when YOU take charge of your recovery from TMS. The time when you begin to know that getting better is not in the hands of someone or something else, be it therapist, chiropractor, GP or medication.
From that time on for me my relationship with professionals changed. I used their services if and when I thought they could help me in my recovery, but I set the agenda from that time on.
There are many things that doctors etc can do very well - treating a mind/body disorder just isn't one of them.
Realistically, we all know that serious physical illnesses occur and our TMS gremlin is a past master at reminding us of that fact, making us way too vigilant with every little twinge our body exhibits.
One thing that happened to me as I recovered from TMS - my gremlin would pounce on a new 'symptom', but whereas, in the past, I would have worried and fretted over it, I can now just step back and see what happens - go about my normal day. No rushing to doctors or searching the net for illnesses that fit the symptoms.
Your post is not silly at all - it describes very well a stage in recovery that many of us will recognise.
Best wishes
Anne
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| Baseball65 |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 21:25:41
Hi Seth
Not to fire up your already busy brain,but now that you have been around the block a few times,I thought I'd mention something.
Wellbutrin and lexapro CAN cause all sorts of side effects.
I tried Wellbutrin to quit smoking...they told me to take it for a week before I tried to stop...5 days in it was as if I was on speed...mind racing,panic attacks,blood pressure through the roof(Headaches) etc,etc,etc.
I had doctors try me on all sorts of meds before I found sarno.The only meds that have ever "worked" for my OCD/Neurosis?hyperactivity have been Benzo's,Opiates and the like.all those ssri's and other new meds send me into panic attacks,headaches,etc.
What is the alleged reasoning behind all the meds?
I know OCD is sometimes treated effectively with prozac,but otherwise you've never fully explained your Mds rationale for the combo.
With all due respect,a lot of psychiatrists like handing out scrips so you have a "bond" so to speak...they are NOT the only ones who can prescribe anti-depressants if you really need them.Your GP can prescribe anything they can.
I'm sure your therapist doesn't like the mindbody stuff,because if you follow it through the reductio ad absurdum,if you can heal any part of your body with your mind,you could also heal your MIND and not need him anymore....job security for him.
just curious
peace
Baseball65 |
| smth416 |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 19:31:56
The end of college can be one of the most stressful times in a person's life. This is even more true if one does not have a set plan. I can relate to the anxiety you are feeling, but it sounds like you are on the right track in terms of getting that stress under control. Good Luck. -Al |
| Tunza |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 15:20:15
quote:
My therapist also mentioned that I'm all about extremes, as many TMS prone individuals are. And that while he fully believes in the mindbody component of illnesses, we should not become zealots. This was hard for me to take at first because I got very defensive inside ,my mind started racing: does this mean he doesn't belive in me? Is everything I am doing for naught?
Nothing more than a silly storyline.
I just get frustrated that my therapist doesn't follow Sarno's theory VERBATIM.
This is exactly how I feel Seth. I have just read Ronald Siegel's book "Back Sense" which I found really helpful because it is really well written and makes the whole TMS theory sound far more mainstream. It gave me new ways to explain what I was experiencing to people who have no knowlegde of TMS and think I am just loopy to have pain when there is no injury.
Kat |
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