| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| dsk |
Posted - 06/05/2014 : 12:12:03
Could use some answers to the question in the title.
After being pain free for several years, I have been struggling with sciatica in my right butt and leg for about 6 weeks. I realized how quickly I was getting back into bad old habits that emphasize the physical (icing, avoidance of exercise, meds, physical therapy). I had an MRI, and while I have not made an appointment with an ortho doc because I feel like this is TMS rearing its ugly head, my primary care doc told me over phone that there were issues with a few discs in my low back.
So, I am nearly convinced that this is 100% TMS, but I have this lingering doubt that keeps rolling around and could use some success stories and feedback. I have gone back to running and exercising, and even getting ready for a house move with some heavy awkward lifting, and the pain is just about the same--which I see as a victory. If I had a bad back, things would really get worse.
Is sciatica always TMS, or does it ever have a true structural cause.
Thanks in advance. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 12/11/2015 : 11:02:20
Andy's Sciatica continued:
So I am clearly breaking the rules, yoga stretching to relieve my pain, insomnia etc, and have done so in the context stated above. In fact my recovery “Success 2000” when I jogged through my pain could be considered very combative. Could the difference for me be that the stretching is “recognition” and “acceptance”. It’s a very subtle point that even I cannot fathom out. Has the stretching become a ritual that works for me? I have ruminating this point, but it was Avik’s and Fred’s recent posts that is making me rethink my TMS rules.
To complicate matters I had a wonderful summer 60 days windsurfing virtually pain free, even weaning myself from Tylenol PMs. In this environment for three months of the year I am 100%, should I be greedy and want for more relief? For the rest of the year I manage, accept and my TMS conditions similar to Dexy’s recent post, where she says:
“I no longer cared whether my pain went away or not. I knew it was TMS and it was totally harmless. Once I stopped genuinely caring whether the pain stuck around or went away, it left.’”
The difference between Dexy and I is that she is a young chick of 34, and I am youngly old at 67, nearly twice her age! We both seem to love massive amounts of exercise.
This brings me to my next point of complication, which is “Age related TMS”. I have this. My body clams up after heavy exercise sessions, my body naturally aches with age. Should I question these aches as TMS?
Comments please?
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 12/08/2015 : 12:12:13
My views have changed slightly as I age; my sciatica (lower back pain) was my main concern that led me to TMS. The term sciatica encompasses pain for the lumbar region, an area where discs bulge laterally and sideways, as we age and with some the bones crumble and deform. The sciatic nerve is the largest nerve in the body and receives thousands of signals from many regions.
In the mid 90s when MRIs became prevalent it was shown that I had 5 discs bulging. A doctor commented I needed surgery and planted a seed of despair; I had had years and years of back issues basically two kinds. Severe spasms that used to put me on the ground, they were shocking and sneaky, and ongoing aches and pains that varied throughout the day, these were dependant on daily stresses to both mind and body.
Around the year 2000, I was invited to attend a “back stretching class” at the local community center. It turned out to be an introduction to yoga. The lady giving the class turned out to be a chiropractor, the stretching helped only a little. In my pain I was not too diligent and for the most part I remember slouching on the couch horizontally. I was reading Healing Back Pain and made a recovery (see my Success 2000).
Before then I was not very active and through taking up windsurfing learned that massive amounts of exercise was really good for me. In the early days of windsurfing one has to “up haul”, pull up the water soaked mast and sail to the vertical position. It’s excruciatingly painful and puts many people off, and this is contrary of what doctors say you should do; favor the aching back, BS. The back is strong; I have proved this to myself.
I am 67-1/2, last summer I had 60 days windsurfing, paddle boarding and yoga. I am fitter than I have ever been. This summer for me was the equivalent of running marathons every day. The night time is when my muscles tighten up and caused pain, and in the past I would normally take Tylenol PM, but this year I counteracted any back pain with my favorite yoga pull. I am now weaned from PM tablets.
So where do I differ? This is my pain not yours, I believe and have proved to myself that my pain is tension. I also think I may have age related anomalies, perhaps arthritis that causes or adds to my muscle tension. So since my MRI in 1996 nearly 19 years I have understood and managed sciatica.
I also differ with the “stretching” that is considered combative to pain by many of you. With Yoga I have switched off lower sciatica pain for years, how can this be bad? If I do have arthritis or a bone issue, would not this be a prime structural spot for TMS to home in on, so what!
I somehow cannot apply “acceptance and sitting” in this situation like anxiety and stress. Does anyone think I should try?
Is all sciatica TMS? Mine was, I proved this to myself!
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| fredamir |
Posted - 12/07/2015 : 19:04:39
I had it in both legs. It was horrible.
Unless someone falls from a horse, like a friend of mine who had scitica for a few days until inflammation subsided, it is TMS.
Fred Amir
www.rapidrecovery.net
"Live Pain-Free and Achieve Optimum Health" begins 01/16/2016
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 12/07/2015 : 12:22:16
Hi Ohio,
I PM'ed you my phone #, give me all call if you like.
tt
==================================================
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation” – Plato
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" - Thomas Gray
"All my friends in Los Angeles are the sensitive type. They all have like all the diseases like Chronic Fatigue, Epstien Barr, Fibromyalgia. Like all the diseases where the only symptoms seem to be you had a really crappy childhood and at the prospect of full time work ya feel kinda achy and tired."
Posted by Skizzik @ TMSHelp from comedian Maria Bamford
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod
=================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Dr. Sarno is now retired, if you call this number you will be referred to his associate Dr. Rashbaum.
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
|
| theohiostateq |
Posted - 12/07/2015 : 07:56:40
Bump. Would like to hear some encouraging words. Thanks. |
| theohiostateq |
Posted - 07/09/2015 : 20:02:55
I don't have pain all the time- just when I stand or walk for awhile. Running, my favorite hobby, is out of the question.
I hit tennis balls in a racquetball court at my gym, and that seems to be exercise I can tolerate, although I physically pay a bit of a price for the effort. I'm good enough that I don't have to run all over the court to hit a ball. (Probably not at tennis tom's level, though.  )
I'm getting an MRI next week. I get differing opinions on surgery from my doc friends, but I want to take a peek and see how things have changed since my 2007 MRI, when I had severe back pain. That pain lasted for 5 months and then went away for good.
I know; I know- tms. Well, that's why I waited out this SOB for over 2 years. I guess it's time to be a little more proactive, medically speaking.
Again, it all hasn't been a suffer fest. I just want to feel good again, and Sarno, for all his brilliance, is not working for me.
I'll keep you apprised. |
| summabody |
Posted - 07/06/2015 : 16:15:36
I found my severe, stabbing, nerve-ripping sciatic pain as the OP described from my knees to my ankles in both legs started to ease up and dissapate once I started to accept that the pain is there, rather than frantically try to find ways to stop or overcome it --- even trying to find the "psychological" triggers (that's still obsessing over getting rid of the symptom).
Seriously, making room for the sensation, accepting it and stopping the worrying does help. It takes its time to dissipate, but that was the way out for me. I still have pain creep up but I literally walk it off now, and this is after being wheelchair bound for 14 years because of this pain condition.
I 100% believe this pain is TMS. I don't know why the brain does this, and not sure I 100% embrace Sarno's idea of it being repressed emotions, but I do believe the not believing the pain is real is the key (which is why some get better simply from reading the book, without psycho-stuff), and "what you resist persists" - treat it like it's not a big deal. It takes practice but it's worth getting off the merrygoround of googling symptoms, seeing various healers and physical treatments and all the other stuff we've spent too much time doing :) |
| filipe |
Posted - 07/06/2015 : 10:03:18
[/quote]
I've had R leg sciatica for 27 months. Tried yoga, acupuncture, chiro (made it worse,) and a host of other things.
Didn't do anything for the longest time, but I got tired of waiting for some changes to happen. Sorry to say it, but it was much like prayer for me.
At this point I hobble along and still hope to get better. I haven't given up on Sarno, and I still read his works.
Still...
[/quote]
Try forgetting it, ignoring it, try shifting your focus to your brain instead. Don't fight the PAIN... acept it...
|
| theohiostateq |
Posted - 07/05/2015 : 11:53:44
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Great TMS success post! Thanks for sharing Luna. Often symptoms can take months or even years to fade away--see SteveO's story in his great TMS book, "THE GREAT PAIN DECEPTION". Many people in pain today want immediate results and undergo surgeries like they were dental work. Results aren't always as hoped for and can have unexpected side effects worse then the original symptom. With TMS methods, it may take some patience but a side effect can be self-discovery of one's truths.
G'luck!
tt
I've had R leg sciatica for 27 months. Tried yoga, acupuncture, chiro (made it worse,) and a host of other things.
Didn't do anything for the longest time, but I got tired of waiting for some changes to happen. Sorry to say it, but it was much like prayer for me.
At this point I hobble along and still hope to get better. I haven't given up on Sarno, and I still read his works.
Still... |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 07/09/2014 : 10:35:31
Great TMS success post! Thanks for sharing Luna. Often symptoms can take months or even years to fade away--see SteveO's story in his great TMS book, "THE GREAT PAIN DECEPTION". Many people in pain today want immediate results and undergo surgeries like they were dental work. Results aren't always as hoped for and can have unexpected side effects worse then the original symptom. With TMS methods, it may take some patience but a side effect can be self-discovery of one's truths.
G'luck!
tt |
| Luna |
Posted - 07/09/2014 : 09:50:33
After conquering back pain with tms knowledge for many years, my body did a switcheroo on me and gave me a horrible case of sciatica. I was fooled for about three weeks, but then started treating it as TMS. I was under a great deal of stress at the time. I made changes in my life, focused on my emotions and expressing my anger, I walked through the pain as much as I could, and generally ignored the pain as much as is possible and went about my life. I was pain free after six months, which is a long time, but I think it is important not to expect overnight results. It has NEVER returned (this happened to me about 10 years ago). I am convinced it was TMS and should not be treated as a physical-defect originating ailment. I hope my story helps you. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/14/2014 : 11:26:57
quote:
Originally posted by dsk
I think the difficult thing for me this time is the mri results that support the diagnosis of sciatica.
If you take enough MRIs and see enough orthopedists, there will eventually be "supporting evidence" of your symptoms. Remember, TMS is a clever process, and gives you symptoms designed to be convincing. If there is a bulging disc in a certain location, the process could affect nearby nerves thereby giving you the exact symptoms you have been told to expect.
In any case, does it really matter? Assuming they are not recommending surgery, the best that medicine has to offer is physical therapy and anti-inflammatories. Simply forego this traditional treatment and consider it TMS by ignoring the symptoms and going about your normal activities as best as you can. |
| dsk |
Posted - 06/12/2014 : 17:09:26
Thanks SpecialOne.
I think the difficult thing for me this time is the mri results that support the diagnosis of sciatica. My previous bout with pain had no "supporting" results--all my previous x-rays and mri reports showed nothing out of the ordinary. This time, that sliver of doubt keeps creeping in. The pain, at times, nearly knocks me down, but I keep running and I keep working at it. |
| Bugbear |
Posted - 06/11/2014 : 00:21:41
quote:
Originally posted by dsk
I got my MRI Conclusion today from the doctor today--"Moderate to large sized right paramedian disc extrusion at L5-S1 impinges on the descending right S1 nerve root."
Anyone have a similar reading?
Yes, I had exactly the same result from an MRI last August along with the standard diagnosis of degenerative disc disease. This is all TMS. If you have the book Mind Body Prescription, read the section on Intervertebral Disc Pathology from page 170 onward. Read it again and again, slowly and and calmly so you are not creating more tension by cramming that stuff into your brain. I couldn't stand up last summer and walk to the bathroom without screaming the house down. Now I can get up and walk two miles. If I were to have a second MRI today, I am pretty sure I would get the same result. I can't say I never feel sciatic pain now. It's just that I don't get freaked out at every little twinge. I consider what psychological factor may have contributed to it and how much strain I am placing on myself (see Ace's Keys to Healing). Then I just get on with my day. This is all a lot easier said than done but over a period of time it can be done. I was also prescribed a bunch of drugs last year, all of which I took in desperation but none of which actually helped. I gradually weaned myself off of them including the basic OTC remedies. I am missing out some things here for the sake of brevity but I hope you get the gist. |
| dsk |
Posted - 06/10/2014 : 14:13:40
I got my MRI Conclusion today from the doctor today--"Moderate to large sized right paramedian disc extrusion at L5-S1 impinges on the descending right S1 nerve root."
Given this interpretation, wouldn't an impingement eventually lead to numbness? Anyone have a similar reading?
I have been running everyday--insanely painful at the beginning, but it definitely gets better as I go.
Thanks. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 06/09/2014 : 04:50:25
If you do ANYTHING about the symptom physically, you will perpetuate it. Do not stretch or take meds if you can and just accept the pain. Focus more on slowing your mind down and the overall inner tension. You will not succeed at first but if you continue to treat symptoms in this manner over time, you will be successful. |
| walnut864 |
Posted - 06/08/2014 : 20:07:29
Iwas troubled with sciatica for years myself. I actually had 3 different pains that took me time to see they were all related. When I in middle school I would get very bad pain where you would get pain if you were having appendicitis. It came on now and again. IN my twenties I started having testicular pain and at times still got the lower abdominal pain. Then I started getting the sciatica pain running down my buttocks down my leg into my knee.
I was in pain it seemed all the time. All the doctor and E.R. visits and tests with no real explanations. Not even a structural problem like a bulging disc to blame it own.
Then one day the sciatica flared up and the pain traveled into my lower abdomen and testicle. Then it hit me that all along these 3 different symptoms were some how related.
After learning of TMS I dont deal with it as much. I may have a flare up of sciatica once or twice a year and it wont last more than a day maybe 2 days. Since I fully believe in my heart and mind that the sciatica that I have is mind related it doesnt hang around long I suppose because I dont fall for my minds trick and start to fear the pain, or start looking for reasons why I am having the pain fearing the worst.
I dont know if ALL sciatica is TMS. Im just sure that mine is.
I hope you get some relief from this soon and that going at this from a TMS standpoint gets you to the recovery you are looking for. |
| Dave |
Posted - 06/08/2014 : 10:41:06
quote:
Originally posted by dsk
I appreciate the posts--it really does help. I am a little confused, should I be taking meds and stretching if this is TMS? I stopped the pain meds and all the stretching thinking that this is not physical
If you are treating the pain as TMS you must stop stretching. That perpetuates the belief that the pain is due to a structural issue.
If you can avoid pain medication it is best. However, if the pain is severe, there is no harm to taking some ibuprofen or similar, as long as you accept that it is treating the symptom only. |
| dsk |
Posted - 06/08/2014 : 03:39:40
I appreciate the posts--it really does help. I am a little confused, should I be taking meds and stretching if this is TMS? I stopped the pain meds and all the stretching thinking that this is not physical--I am pushing myself to workout and run through the pain. That has been awful but tolerable, and does help to feel better. Everything really improved and then it got worse with a vengeance. In the past, my TMS had never been this painful. |
| altherunner |
Posted - 06/07/2014 : 21:13:39
I used to get bad sciatica, even though I had read Sarno' books and had improved. I would get it worst on the weekend, when I was looking forward to go run. I would take a painkiller just to be able to get up, then go to the gym and walk at first, then run on the treadmill.
It would always get better after I ran, like warming up inside out, and also defeating the distraction. |
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