| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| RajPatel |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 13:21:51
Hey guys, 18 years old and have been looking into TMS recently and it might explain why none of the conventional methods have had any effect on my lower back pain with my L5-S1 bulging disc. The pain started when I had a snowboarding fall in December 2011. Like anyone else, I've been through the run around ranging from chiropractors, physical therapy, traction, inversion therapy, and a cortisone shot, all of which have had no effect on me whatsoever.
The pain isn't normally that bad, but occasionally I'll get a "spasm" which makes the lower back pain severe. Last Thursday I was in the gym and I've never had a problem doing the bent over rows, but for some reason my lower back pain triggered mildly. I tried reassuring myself that it was TMS and not a structural problem, but couldn't bring myself to lift the bar due to the pain.
I tried to switch over to some shoulder shrugs instead and added some weight. I kept trying to pick up the bar, but kept feeling pain in my lower back. On 1 attempt I decided to push through the pain and lift the bar (which I failed to do), and it had caused me the most severe back pain episode yet. The pain has been in the lower right side of my back. I had to leave the gym right after arriving and could barely walk, since every step I took was quite painful.
I've read Dr. Sarno's Healing Back Pain book and I am trying to accept the diagnosis since he says it's very rare for back pain to be rooted in a structural abnormality, but I keep wondering if I'm the exception since my back was perfectly fine before the snowboarding fall.
Thank you for any input. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/08/2014 : 15:59:13
quote:
Originally posted by RajPatel
... I'm genuinely trying to see where the inner tension is truly coming from, it's not easy.
...I guess if I just keep journaling I'm bound to eventually find the source of my inner tension/TMS?
Google Rahe-Holmes for the sources of your "inner tension"...and then you can journal about them, if you wish.
G'luck!
==================================================
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod
=================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Dr. Sarno is now retired, if you call this number you will be referred to his associate Dr. Rashbaum.
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
|
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 03/08/2014 : 14:25:53
Raj, great chatting with you today. Slow and steady wins the race. The key is life style changes, you can go on a diet and loose weight, but you will get the weight back. if you change your eating habits, the weight goes away forever. change weight for pain above, and you get the idea. I have been at this 10 years now, and I am not "cured", but i am 90% better and haven't had a sever pain episode in 6 years!
Matthew
Less activated, more regulated and more resilient.
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
Organizer of TMSwiki.org/chat
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| RajPatel |
Posted - 02/10/2014 : 00:01:56
No need to apologize - understandable given the length of the thread.
To sum it up: snowboarding fall 12-23-11.
Have tried: physical therapy, 3 chiropractors, inversion table, traction therapy, rest for 1 month not working out, strengthening the lower back, and lastly a cortisone shot in March 2013. All of which have had zero effect on my perpetual LBP and the inevitably excruciating spasms.
Certainly gives reason to believe that perhaps it is TMS. I was never positive about my recovery to begin with. Also, I would like to point out that the back pain is everlasting, usually just an annoying pain when pressure is put on the lower back on my lower left side, but the spasms are what make life hell for me. Not fun living like this!
I'll try to make a daily habit of journaling and hope that I can find some form of relief! To clarify matters, I've never experienced the "quick 'knowledge cure'" you refer to, since I'm just now accepting TMS. I'm genuinely trying to see where the inner tension is truly coming from, it's not easy. Interestingly enough, it would seem that I'd fall under the Type A personality described in the interview you linked.
I guess if I just keep journaling I'm bound to eventually find the source of my inner tension/TMS? |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 02/09/2014 : 07:44:15
Sorry, RajPatel, no I wasn't trying to insinuate at all that perhaps this isn't a relapse of TMS. It's just that I was kind of in a hurry when I posted and hadn't time to really read through the whole thread, so wasn't sure if you had been dx'd w/ TMS previously and what all treatments had failed since your 2012 MRI. More just trying to err on the 'side of caution' that you had done your 'due diligence' on ruling anything serious out.
About relapses and journalling: "journalling" can mean different things and depending how one journals, it seems it helps some people, and not others. You will no doubt figure out which group you're in, if you keep doing it!
About relapses: Monte in particular has singled out "relapses" as being quite different than original experiences of TMS. Apparently he has worked with hundreds (?) of people who had seen Dr Sarno himself, where the original 'fix' didn't stay fixed, or something else flared up, some years later. (I don't know if Tony Swartz's experience of getting over his own relapse is typical or very Atypical. Monte's writings would suggest to me that Tony Swartz's experience was more atypical, but I don't have any real stats to know ... or maybe no one else has those stats either.)
The thing is, and Ace1's thinking has also convinced me of this, that I believe Monte is on the right track when he contends that at some point, the internal stress needs to be addressed in a substantive way:
quote:
For some, at least initially being aware of this pain disorder caused by psychological factors is enough to reverse the pain. However, I have discovered that usually just being aware of the stress-pain relationship and knowing that stress is the cause is not enough to reverse this disorder. Here is why. This is a chronic pain disorder caused by our daily, moment to moment, chronic behaviours and thoughts. So a person will be aware that they are in a striving, people pleasing mode, and they know that this is generating inner tension and then pain, but they don’t do anything else!
My work in this pain disorder is focused on helping people understand that they must begin to change their chronic behaviours and thoughts that generate inner tension. If a person doesn’t stop generating inner tension/stress they are not going to stop this pain disorder. It is significant to understand that a person in worry or being very self-conscious or holding in anger is doing two things:
1. Generating new inner tension and
2. Repressing emotional energy or holding it down, which also generates inner tension.
Awareness is where you must start, but once you are aware that you are generating tension/stress, you must learn how to change or redirect out of those patterns.
(from in interesting interview w/ Monte:
http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.ca/2009/06/running-pain-interview-with-monte.html )
I believe Dr Sarno said one's "stress beaker" is made up of a combination of (1) past stress (2) current stress and (3) personality "issues" (eg being a "type A"). Different approaches to TMS seem to address different areas.
If the quick 'knowledge cure' doesn't work this time around for you, then you will have to do the hard work of getting to know yourself better and seeing where you are generating inner tension and how to work w/ it so it doesn't manifest as body pain. (Do you think your tendency to be overly analytical creates inner tension for you? or are you able to be overly analytical in a relaxed, calm manner?) (For myself, I have learned that ANYTHING in my life I can do in a stressed out, tension-producing manner, even relaxation exercises!)
sorry for the ramble.. hope something in here is helpful and you are feeling much better soon!
~RSR
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| RajPatel |
Posted - 02/09/2014 : 01:21:10
quote:
Originally posted by RageSootheRatio
If you believe this is really a "relapse" of actual TMS, you might consider trying Ace's "keys to healing":
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7765
or some of the ideas from Monte's "Master practice":
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8956
(lots more from Monte, including videos, just do a search on "Monte")
hope this helps,
RSR
I'd like to think so, perhaps the trigger was that I was annoyed for the first time at my roommate waking me up early every morning making noise. Closest thing I can think of.
It seems you insinuate that perhaps it isn't a relapse of TMS? What do you think? I know I'm going against what was said in the links you posted, but I've always had the tendency to be over-analytical. It just feels like the pain is from the bulging disc, like when I put pressure on my lower back or just push against my lower back. Then again, I suppose that could subconsciously be the case of Pavlov's conditioning.
quote:
Originally posted by theohiostateq
Read this:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/12/20/to-break-the-cycle-of-pain-its-mind-over-matter/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
Had no idea who Tony Schwartz was, but it's encouraging to see a famous man strongly advocating Dr. Sarno's TMS. Good read.
Interesting that he just gritted his teeth through the pain when he walked. I was unable to workout Thursday and Friday due to the severity of the pain, but did back and triceps yesterday albeit in moderate pain.
Thanks for the help everyone. |
| theohiostateq |
Posted - 02/08/2014 : 15:46:27
quote:
Originally posted by RageSootheRatio
wow, theohiostateq! I had no idea that TONY SWARTZ was also a John Sarno patient! THANKS so much for posting this link! ~RSR
You are welcome! |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 02/08/2014 : 08:18:01
wow, theohiostateq! I had no idea that TONY SWARTZ was also a John Sarno patient! THANKS so much for posting this link! ~RSR |
| theohiostateq |
Posted - 02/08/2014 : 07:11:42
Read this:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/12/20/to-break-the-cycle-of-pain-its-mind-over-matter/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 02/07/2014 : 14:49:35
If you believe this is really a "relapse" of actual TMS, you might consider trying Ace's "keys to healing":
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7765
or some of the ideas from Monte's "Master practice":
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8956
(lots more from Monte, including videos, just do a search on "Monte")
hope this helps,
RSR |
| RajPatel |
Posted - 02/07/2014 : 11:56:52
Hello Dave,
Yes, in August 2012 I had the MRI which indicated the 0.3 by 1.2 cm L5-S1 bulging disc.
All conventional methods have failed and the pain just flared up again which is why I am trying to make a daily habit of journaling since I don't know what else to do! Isn't that Dr. Sarno's treatment suggestion, to journal daily? Do I journal about the same negative emotions/experiences or whatever comes to mind? Because I couldn't possibly keep on thinking up new or different negativity.
Thanks. |
| Dave |
Posted - 02/07/2014 : 10:50:31
quote:
Originally posted by RajPatel
I've read Dr. Sarno's Healing Back Pain book and I am trying to accept the diagnosis since he says it's very rare for back pain to be rooted in a structural abnormality, but I keep wondering if I'm the exception since my back was perfectly fine before the snowboarding fall.
Have you had a full workup by an orthopedic surgeon including MRI?
If there are no structural abnormalities caused by the injury, and no pathological findings (or only typically benign findings such as bulging or herniated discs) then you have nothing to lose by treating the pain as TMS and following Dr. Sarno's treatment suggestions. |
| RajPatel |
Posted - 02/06/2014 : 20:02:49
Sorry to revive this old thread, but I am at my wits end now! I had borrowed The Mindbody Prescription from the library in January and finished reading it before going back to college but I didn't get the time to read up on the "Jim Campobello method."
Now normally it's just an annoying pain on the lower left side of my back, but this morning, I bent over to pick up the toothpaste I dropped and it was almost like a repeat of the attack 2 months ago! It's almost as bad, except this time it's in the center of my very lower back! I can deadlift 135 pounds no problem, but bending over too quickly will cause me such debilitating pain?? I couldn't even go to the gym today because I had dropped my toothpaste if you think about it!
I tried journaling on my laptop on MS Word following the instructions on the tmswiki page "How do I journal?" genuinely trying to think of all the negative emotions and experiences. I know it said spend 20-30 minutes but I ended up spending nearly an hour because I was just scrolling down the page and just doing what was listed. All that did was temporarily make me more depressed, no change in pain.
I know I should have started journaling before but today is day one and I've decided to commit. On subsequent days would I just journal about the same stuff, pretty much? I'm just so sick of having the back of an 80 year old man at the age of 18!! One wrong twist, bending over too quickly, any sudden movement, what nonsense!!
Thanks again for the help. |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 12/26/2013 : 11:30:04
I agree with Dave on book selection. the divided mind was written with TMs practitioners in mind. the other two are more patient oriented
I would also suggest you check out the TMS text chat on Saturdays at 3:00 PM ET http://tmswiki.org/chat/
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
--------------------
Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| Dave |
Posted - 12/23/2013 : 12:09:21
quote:
Originally posted by RajPatel
So I'm about ready to order one of the 2 aforementioned books, but which one should I order and read first? The Mindbody Prescription or The Divided Mind?
I suggest to start with The Mindbody Prescription or even Healing Back Pain. |
| RajPatel |
Posted - 12/22/2013 : 16:38:14
So I'm about ready to order one of the 2 aforementioned books, but which one should I order and read first? The Mindbody Prescription or The Divided Mind?
As an update, I was in the gym today doing leg presses and of course had a mild spasm, not as bad as the last one but still mildly annoying pain. Only instead of the lower right back, this time in the lower left side. I don't know what could have emotionally triggered it this time either.
I'm sick of the pain occasionally getting in the way when I work out and just having it in general; tomorrow marks 2 years since I've had the pain from the snowboarding fall.
Matthew, it's a relief to hear that the root of your TMS was from something not as serious as the stress you depicted in your story. This means there is certainly hope for me.
Thanks for the input guys. |
| MatthewNJ |
Posted - 12/20/2013 : 19:23:22
Raj, I would suggest not comparing my "problems" to your "problems" or anyone else's for that matter. We are all different. One thing I learned from Dr. Levine's work is trauma is in the eyes of the beholder. Particularly when the the beholder is a child of 3- 7 years of age. I used to be confused by the seriousness of my pain, when I don't have the life's emotional traumas I heard so many folks share. My major issue is not getting enough attention as a child. Doesn't sound to horrible to me. That all said, your story is classic. Even after Dr. Sarno diagnosed me, it still took me years to get where I am now. Steady regular hard work, every day. I don't like to buy books either. I get them from the library first!
Good luck!
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
--------------------
Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
| icelikeaninja |
Posted - 12/17/2013 : 17:51:08
Man I gladly paid the 1000 dollars just to have sarno tell me I had Tms. It's up to you of course but there is no price to pay for relief.
Seriously I need to do those surveys too lol that's awesome
**Sure I can lay down on a bed of nails and not have pain but why am I having back pain when laying down on a soft mattress? |
| RajPatel |
Posted - 12/17/2013 : 17:34:17
quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by RajPatel
At some point, I am going to order The Mindbody Prescription and The Divided Mind.
Can you explain the source of your hesitation to order the books?
Sounds kind of silly, but I'm going to get points via surveys on a get paid to site as usual since I really don't like spending money being the cheap person I am. Then I'll just use the amazon gift cards for the books. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 12/15/2013 : 11:49:33
Outline: http://www.fullcirclemed.org/fullcircle/wp-content/uploads/sarno-handout.pdf |
| Dave |
Posted - 12/15/2013 : 10:12:02
quote:
Originally posted by RajPatel
At some point, I am going to order The Mindbody Prescription and The Divided Mind.
Can you explain the source of your hesitation to order the books? |
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