| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| thatsmygrell |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 13:47:00
New member here. Last January I was diagnosed with a herniated disc at L4-L5. My symptoms got a bit worse after learning about it and I stopped playing soccer. My neurologists both said I would need surgery and so did my neurosurgeon. There was temporary relief this summer but, after some more pain and another MRI, I learned the surgery was unsuccessful and the disc reherniated.
I just happened upon Sarno's Healing Back Pain in August and noticed the profile fit me well. I also happened to be going through some tough times in my personal life so I could relate. I bought his more recent book The Mind Body Prescription and have read it through 3 times in the last 2 months. I also stopped physical therapy about a month ago entirely.
I've had some good days. I've had some pretty bad ones too. Today happens to be a bad one with my left leg tingling, with some pain, and my back ( where the injury is supposed to be ) in pain. I figured i'd write in to see what I need to keep doing. Here's what i'm doing:
Waking up in the morning and using some affirmation treatments to say "I'm calm and healthy."
Try hard to find out points where I don't feel pain, and why, and attribute the pain to mental rather than an actual physical problem with my back.
Stopped physical therapy.
Returned to the gym some doing very basic exercises. Some swimming.
Written problems in my journal. Gone to a therapist several times to discuss any deeper problems.
Yet it hasn't gone away.
I planned on going to the gym today; do I push through it even though it's a bad day? What do I do on the bad days? What should I be doing differently? |
| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 13:35:50
Hi Ophelia from France,
Good to see you back, remember we chatted about backs, stretching and exercise last year? Coincidently Ophelia that thread is the one linked in my last post here.
Just to let you, thatsmygrell and others know that my back is still in very good shape with no re-occurrence of major pain or those nasty spasms. In fact I have realized that my lower back exercises have become my main point of relaxation. It is what I do first to loosen up before exercising or working out or when I have neck pain. I do those lower back stretches for my neck! I can’t explain how this works other than it being a relaxation response. In addition sometimes I am able to avoid taking Tylenol PM for my throbbing-grinding neck by stretching my lower back.
When I think BACK to 1998 and 15 years of sciatic pain, spasms and protruding “hernies”, I call this a recovery.
Good luck all
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| Ophelia |
Posted - 12/02/2013 : 09:53:08
I apparently have a very small herniated disc at L4 L5 WHICH 3 years ago I definitely did not need surgery for, have had endless MRI's CT scans, massage, phsio name it I have had it but still no resolution of the constant 24/7 pain of tingling all down left leg and pins and needles in both feet, I believe strongly in TMS have worked with a TMS therapist and read Sarno, Schubiner, Ozanich all of them, finally in desperation my doctor has sent me to a neuro surgeon who I went to see and who said he could help me but I had to get yet another MRI to confirm his suspicions, having read your account and conferred with Steve Ozanich, I will not go ahead but oh god it still hursts so. Good luck with yours. Ophelia |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/27/2013 : 17:23:32
Hi thatsmygrell,
I was at the gym today and have signed up with my trainer again for the winter. He reminded me to do all of my exercises much slower, in fact the whole theme was for me to be gentler with myself. I showed him my jumping rope technique and he then demonstrated. I was amazed at how soft he landed. With TMS exercising if you exercise harder you are really creating a challenge and more stress for yourself. This is a difficult concept to comprehend because the word exercise is synonymous with competition and trying harder.
So you woke up with soreness - I’m attaching the story of my one and only spasm incident since I recovered in 2000. It is similar to yours.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7197
Note: By the way there is huge controversy about stretching on this forum, I am sure you are going to come across it sooner or later. The fact is most believe that I should not have stretched to combat my pain and this theory ties in with the above as per: “you should not combat your pain”. Most of my stretching now takes place the form of warm up / warm down or a yoga routine.
Sorry to hear of your marriage problems we all have them. I find that after a workout when I’m tired as a puppy dog a good time to think honestly what is really going on. Is it me or her?
Good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| thatsmygrell |
Posted - 11/26/2013 : 21:01:21
Still working on it.
Started running on the track, swimming harder. More good days than bad. Today's pretty rough though. But serious stuff is happening in my personal life--pretty potentially life altering moments after the next. So when I was working out I was thinking about all this the entire time.
Back has flared up. Legs. Had to take an oxy.
Reading Mind Power into the 21st century and Sarno. I have hope that it can get better. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/07/2013 : 20:33:40
Hi thatsmygrell,
Perhaps it seems worst at the end of the day for you may be too idle in the sitting position. I like to believe that your TMS knows this is when you’re most vulnerable, sort of weird I know. My neck pain kicks in then also, especially if I have been over active. It knows this too!
I can’t advise re the pain killers. Dr Sarno in HBP (which you can look up) suggests a glass of wine and also medication instead of sitting through the pain. If you do come down off your pain perch this is a good time to think what could have happened. It is often very hard to establish a psychological cause to a pain event and this takes practice. Your deeper problems Dr. Sarno refers to as past, present or personality or as in my case a mixture of all three, so I have called them my three Pees.
As you can see from my earlier post I’m taking a break.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8863
You are in good hands and diong well, keep posting.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| thatsmygrell |
Posted - 11/07/2013 : 15:50:59
It really is the worst towards the end of the day...when i'm sitting.
Is it alright to take pain pills every now and then or should I just sit through the pain and refocus? |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 19:50:13
Stayfit65 , thatsmygrell
Deep down at a subconscious level we might believe that we are exercising to combat our pain / to relieve it, without even realizing it!
Or we stress out over the decision how hard to push or how many pushups etc.
When I had a trainer this was much easier to deal with since the exercise was driven by him and not my subconscious, I had no thoughts either way about the exercises I just did them.
Most trainers push you so I told him I was not really bothered about muscle build up – just to feel good.
Last winter I trained for six months with only one incident on a back crushing machine. My trainer understands that I just want to keep fit in preparation for windsurfing next year and I am thinking of getting him again. He is a good guy.
In 2000 I had all the L4 L5 hernie’s going on. I did not have surgery so be careful and start slow.
Good luck to both
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| stayfit65 |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 17:47:53
I just wanted to say that when I first started back exercising, I did swimming and the elliptical. I loved it because it was not too intense, and I worked up a sweat on the elliptical, which I had longed to experience again after 8 months. Now I am running half marathons and teaching spinning classes again. But I still have those days where there is no pain or minimal pain, but others are more intense. That is when I know I need to do something special for myself. You and I are taking very similar approaches, and it is comforting to me that someone else has good days and bad days. I don't let it stop me, and yes, I do feel soooo much better after a workout...the pain vanishes for a time and it is an awesome feeling. Let's keep hanging in there, we can do this. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 17:43:00
Its under your profile. It is better to copy - paste in to it.
good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| thatsmygrell |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 17:36:28
I'm guessing a bio is something this site offers? I'll look into it. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 17:14:19
Hi Peregrinus,
You might be right, and I don’t take offence. But I’m perplexed as to why you see a connection to my given advice and my Biography?
Taking the stance that I’m being hypocritical, I can assume your comments mean that there is not enough psychological data in my bio. If this is what you mean I refer you to my many posts that pour out psychological details sinking past the point of being a macho man.
If you read some of my first posts you will notice that I sought advice about posting a bio,
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7176
From this I received mixed messages and resorted to the Wikipedia Encyclopedia definition: “A biography or simply bio is a detailed description or account of a person's life”, which sufficed for me.
Regarding changing my bio a host of questions come into play, some of which are:
What’s a bio for? As a benchmark - to measure my progress or to inform others so they have a feeling of connection and comparison.
Can a bio contain negative? I don’t see why not if it’s the truth.
Should you rewrite a bio? This could be viewed as covering up honest events to match current needs, sort of denial.
I have reread my bio many, many, times and still feel it met my needs:
“ To admit and write down the revealing truth, as to why I feel the way I do about my background and past family”. In essence it is the foundation of who I am and will remain as encouragement for others to do the same.
I will perhaps rearrange it to add pertinent and new information at the top and not the bottom.
thatsmygrell: bio or not to bio it’s your choice.
thatsmygrell: Read my comments to Mala on “Changing my Mode:”
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8820
thatsmygrell: Re- marriage after 37 years I’m no expert, but sometimes a flaming row is in order, it clears the air, and it’s so soothing making up afterwards. (This is probably not good advice but ties in with the lady who healed after she screamed her heart out to release her rage in Healing Backpain.)
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| thatsmygrell |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 15:44:29
Oh yea, marriage is not easy, and I definitely have gone in and explored my inner child. I even took the next step to go to a therapist for a while just to get a jump on the gun ( Sarno said 5 to 10 percent of his patients needed this so I thought I'd go ahead and see ).
There's tension there. I want badly to make the relationship work. But yea, it does put a lot of pressure on me.
But that is something that I need to be able to handle because it is not going to go away.
I haven't been running yet--swimming and the eliptical....but I just accepted to referee a game ( since i'm still nervous about playing ) of soccer this weekend. We'll see how it goes. Most certainly am nervous but I will try not to be. |
| Peregrinus |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 14:20:37
quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
Since this is a mind body site those deeper problems that you discussed with you therapist have relevance to us here, as time goes by they will become your main point of discussion.
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception
Andy:
It is time to take your own advice and update your "biography". |
| Dave |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 14:19:03
quote:
Originally posted by thatsmygrell
No, there's definite joy in it. I'm just worried about a major spasm while doing so.
Banishing the fear is harder than ignoring the symptoms. You have to accept your body is strong, there is nothing physically wrong, and you are not going to cause any damage. If you do get a "spasm" just ignore it and do not allow it to intensify. Instead shift your thoughts towards the emotional realm.
quote:
It's just odd that some days are so bad. And then others are good.
It is not odd at all. Accept the symptoms are random, manufactured by the brain.
If the herniation was in fact causing the symptoms, wouldn't they be constant? And if the herniation was impinging on a nerve, wouldn't the symptom be numbness, and not pain?
quote:
I woke up last night to some pain that could have just been soreness and repeated that I was calm and healthy. Went to the fridge and said that some juice and water would make me better and really tried to believe it. It did--back to sleep in a few minutes.
Good job. After doing this a few hundred times your stubborn unconscious mind will start to get the message.
quote:
...The relationship issues have stemmed since after I learned about the diagnosis.
I don't know anything about you, but no relationship is without "issues" even though they remain buried much of the time. The diagnosis is a convenient distraction, and perhaps an excuse to avoid facing certain things about your life that might be troubling you on a deeper level than you realize or accept. Try to explore what the "child inside" you is feeling about the pressures put upon you by yourself and others.
quote:
Keep trying to take it one day at a time...
That's all you can do. It is a life-long change in the way you think about and react to the symptoms. It will take time and determination, and enduring the pain is part of the process. You've only taken the first step. |
| thatsmygrell |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 13:32:21
No, there's definite joy in it. I'm just worried about a major spasm while doing so. It hasn't happened yet--in fact, 90 percent of the time I feel better after a workout--especially my spirits. Today I feel great so I'm glad I went ahead and pushed through it.
It's just odd that some days are so bad. And then others are good.
I woke up last night to some pain that could have just been soreness and repeated that I was calm and healthy. Went to the fridge and said that some juice and water would make me better and really tried to believe it. It did--back to sleep in a few minutes.
I'm having some major difficulties with my wife at the moment. That's the big stress. But it wasn't an issue last January when I was diagnosed( and before when I started to feel pain ). The relationship issues have stemmed since after I learned about the diagnosis.
Keep trying to take it one day at a time by focusing on the emotional. Sometimes its scary as the pain during the day, sitting at my computer desk, starts to creep up on me. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 16:12:10
Welcome thatsmygrell,
I think you are doing just fine, but it’s going to take time.
As a fellow back sufferer (recovered) I did notice that word “PUSH”. You are supposed to push with ease, serenity control and calmness, and for the purpose of your general health. I work out and found this was a difficult concept to grasp at first, so I reduced the weights to get more control. We want to recognize not antagonize the pain for what it is: benign and harmless.
The word “bad” is relative. If there is no joy, pleasure or satisfaction from the activity I would lighten up. If your pain is really bad I would take a tablet and read, do something psychological. It’s not a good thing to push into that debilitating shocking spasm!
Since this is a mind body site those deeper problems that you discussed with you therapist have relevance to us here, as time goes by they will become your main point of discussion.
As a new contributor you might benefit from what I said to Lily Rose last week with regard to this website.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8852
As usual Dave words of wisdom.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| Dave |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 15:16:45
There is no magic cure; the experience is different for everybody.
It takes time for the newfound knowledge to sink into your unconscious, and for that knowledge to turn into a true belief. Continue to re-read Dr. Sarno's books and follow his treatment suggestions.
You must get to the point where you truly believe that the disc herniation is not the source of the symptoms. Until you get there, act as if you believe. When you are aware of the pain, shift your focus to emotional issues that may be troubling you on a deeper level than you realize. Try to explore what is going on in your life and how you truly feel about it inside, even if those feelings are ugly and you don't want to admit them.
Most importantly, you have to simply learn to ignore the pain and go about your day, including physical activity. It will take time and persistence. As you make progress, your unconscious will try even harder to keep the distraction going, so it might get worse before it gets better, or you might experience entirely different symptoms. Take this as a positive sign.
Don't try to monitor your progress. There will be good days and bad days. Don't get discouraged by setbacks. Take a long-term view and trust that if you do the work to recondition your response to the pain, it will eventually fade on its own. |
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