| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 09:09:32
When I want TMS relief I have to do the work (dialoging, sharing on this forum, talking to people, sharing in my men's group). Very occasionally I find some TMS relief when I wasn't looking for it. This welcomed ocurrence is like the inner child communicating with me. I try to listen, feel the body emotion, and try and interpret what the child is trying to tell me.
This happened yesterday when I was having a serious discussion with my wife about the planning for trying to having a second child. One of my issues, understandably, is this whole issue of childhood vaccinations particularly this DPT vaccine, which was the one that caused my problems in infancy and beyond. In the event down the line that we have another child I argued for not doing this vaccine. (With our first son I did some investigating on this subject and concluded that the risks associated with it were greater than the protection benefits). My wife, on the other hand, is pushing for full vaccinations.
As I presented my opinion on the subject I started to feel that familiar fear emotion, with the accompanied TMS release. I'm always taken aback when this happens. My interpretation of the emotional response is that somehow the speaking up with my wife and expressing my own opinion is violating the belief system established at the beginning of my life. It was too dangerous to speak up and express my opinion for fear of abandonment. Perhaps i'm unconsiously fearfulll that she would react negatively to a contentious issue, or that she will abandon me. I think its an issue of trust. I did not have a firm grounding in my own survival and did not trust that I would be safe if I expressed my opinion.
This experience was very similar to a prior experience where again we were talking about a second child except this time the subject was getting through the birthing experience and me providing adequate emotional support. (My wife and I react in opposite extremes to sleep deprivation where she gets more emotional and I get less emotional). In this case I was speaking truthfully that I didn't think I could meet her emotional needs and that we would need to get help the second time around. My wife, who is especially gifted in emotional matters, interpreted my fearful body reaction (shakiness) as a sign that perhaps I was risking her rejecting me for putting my feelings out there since I know that I didn't give her the appropriate emotional support the first time around.
When I look back at my own progress wrt TMS I realize that i've come a long way towards noticing and really paying attention to the signals the inner child is sending me. When I first started this work I had some of the fear emotion, especially when talking to parents, but didn't have the sensitivity to realize that this was the wounded inner child communicating with me- I just basically ignored him out of ignorance.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 06/01/2005 : 08:11:28
quote:
Originally posted by seanf
quote:
Originally posted by miehnesor
quote:
Originally posted by kenny V
What did you say happened to you?
Now i'm just trying to practice feeling the feelings and hoping that one day my psyche will settle down.
miehnesor,
Are you familiar with the work of Arthur Janov? He's the "Primal Scream" therapist that was very much en vogue in the 70s. I've been reading his books recently, and there's a lot of resonance between his ideas and Sarno's. The major difference is that Sarno doesn't think you usually have to feel repressed rage to alleviate symptoms. Janov believes you do, unequivocally.
Janov has only been mentioned a couple times on this board, but I'm curious to hear what other people think of him or his ideas. This seems like as a good a thread as any to do it.
seanf- After a bit of a hiatus from this primal therapy concept i've recently been looking at this with great interest. When I read the recommendations of "The New Primal Therapy" on Amazon I was surprised how much emotion came up for me. So my first throught was maybe this is something worth exploring from a TMS standpoint.
Next I checked out Janov's web site and started reading it and once again I had a lot of emotion come up.
http://www.primaltherapy.com/CORES/aptCore.htm
The primal scream seems like the ultimate in letting go and feeling the original pain but i'm not sure if this is just my inner child looking for a salvation system or whether this is something I really need to do.
I did orger his latest book "The New Primal Therapy" to at least explore this and understand it further.
The end of his web site is some discussion of "self primalling" which I found very interesting. If this is true then i've been mistaken about the therapy and the ideas i've been suggesting on this forum (especially wrt the last thread on practicing anger)and may be hurting myself and others more than i'm helping.
What is your opinion on this therapy?
Has any other TMS'er have an opinion about this?
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| kenny V |
Posted - 04/16/2005 : 11:10:11
Great post Anne, I think you have found your ministry. 
>As for Rick Carson'd book - it's probably not for everyone. I can imagine that some people would find the >lightheartedness of tone and its central analogy of imagining negative destructive thoughts and emotions >as your gremlin, as annoying. I love it, but if the reviews on Amazon don't make you want to read it, you >probably won't like it.
Can relate to all of what you have said,
altho don’t know much about the gremlin  thing. ......... 
You are a very valuable asset on this forum.
Take care
K-
Always Hope For Recovery
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| miehnesor |
Posted - 04/15/2005 : 16:41:42
Anne- Thanks for the encouragement and the details of your journey. It does sound like a rough ride but it must be gratifying to make it through and to have rid yourself of the prison of TMS. You are in a good position to help others on this forum.
It is indeed a strange situation to consciously have what appears to be a good relationship with my mother and at the same time be in a blinding unconscious rage state. I do think that it is just a matter of time before my psyche settles down and the fear subsides sufficiently to no longer warrent the distraction of TMS. There seems to be, in my case (and for some time yours as well), a great benefit to facing the fear and challenging it by doing what the TMS is trying to prevent me from doing.
Thanks for your support Anne- really appreciate it! |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/15/2005 : 11:15:21
Posting here allows us to correspond with people who have identified a physical/emotional connection that has resulted in physical pain or other unpleasant manifestations - namely TMS. Occasionally when posting I forget that I am not face to face with other people and therefore am unable to put right something that is unclear to them in meaning: the usual route of someone asking for a clearer explanation there and then, is not instantly available, as it would be in a face to face conversation.
Added to that; there are differences in how English is used, depending on where one is in the world - ambiguities and misunderstandings are bound to arise from time to time.
Micah, your last post has made me consider what I actually DO mean when I say that I found it important to, 'Stop living in the past.'
I've been out with my husband most of the day - looking for a new vehicle for his business - got a bit bored - so I sat in the car and made notes of what I do mean by it. And sorted out in my own head the sequence of things that helped me recover.
Here's a summary of my scribbling:-
Living in the past (and catastophising about the future) was central to the physical and emotional turmoil I found myself in. Suffered a 'breakdown' in August 2002 - diagnosed as nervous exhaustion - caused partly by chronic backache
Vague ideas about what was troubling me began to form before I found out about TMS, but after many conventional channels had been tried; ie - tests, scans, medication, chiros, physios etc etc.
Found Dr Sarno's books when trawling the web for information on psychological/physical problems. (beginning of 2003)
Immediate improvement in my chronic back pain - the fear of the pain has never been a major problem again after reading MBP
As the pain subsided (although I had relapses), I began to concentrate on the living in the past issue -tried CBT on my GP's suggestion (useless); found a good psychotherapist myself (early 2003 for around seven months). She helped me define the problem and worked with me on 'living mindfully' (Jon Kabat-Zinn's programme).
I read voraciously on psychological conditions that I believed might apply to me - books, internet, magazine articles - anything really.
I honestly believe that the 'drip-drip' effect of all that reading, thinking and talking with my therapist and others was the main factor in my recovery. The intensity of it all helped re-programme my brain. That sounds like something out of a sci-fi novel, but that is what seems to have happened.
I have never adhered strictly to any one programme from any expert - I've just read their work and taken from it what I want.
Working through the issues that have affected you is exactly what I did, Micah. I absolutely had to do that in order to stop living in the past and it was uncomfortable - my relationship with my mother deteriorated for a while. Memories of what I began to perceive as her disinterest in me was very hard to take - it took a long time to come to terms with that.
I don't think I'd have recovered so well if I had not worked through past issues - as you are doing now.
As for Rick Carson'd book - it's probably not for everyone. I can imagine that some people would find the lightheartedness of tone and its central analogy of imagining negative destructive thoughts and emotions as your gremlin, as annoying. I love it, but if the reviews on Amazon don't make you want to read it, you probably won't like it.
If you are noticing that things are getting better for you - then what you are doing is working. Being patient is hard, when you notice an improvement it's hard when you slide back a bit - but the process, once begun, is unstoppable.
Take care
Anne |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/15/2005 : 02:25:08
Sorry, Micah, my post could easily be taken the way you understood it - but what I meant was that for myself, it was necessary to stop letting attitudes that I had developed because of my past rule my life in the present. I did this by working through it - as you are doing.
I am not suggesting that you stop working through the issues you have described - not at all.
I have to go out now; I'll post properly later. Sorry again.
Take care
Anne |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 04/14/2005 : 23:41:29
Anne- This whole issue of healing by doing the Sarno analytical work "living in the past" and doing "living in the present" work I find quite difficult to understand. Sarno does not talk about this kind of work wrt TMS.
If I understand your case correctly, you were not able to heal your TMS until you did the deep analytic work with the therapist and that it took you a good half year before your psyche settled down. Was this not the main event that eliminated your TMS? At what time in your recovery did you introduce the "living in the present" work and how did that work affect your TMS?
When you posted the above comment I felt invalidated because I was interpreting your comments, perhaps incorrectly, that really I should not be doing the feeling work but try to live in the present in a healthier way. So sorry if I kind of jumped the gun on my first post. I know you have said that doing both in your opinion is the best approach.
The good news in my case is that I believe that what i'm doing is working. I've noticed that my TMS symptoms have taken a step down in intensity over the last week or so. I had another phone conversation with my mom and it was very cordial with no harsh screaming or losing control. I did again experience the fear again quite strongly as I was describing my psychological journey. I also decided to listen to the inner child and put the phone down and had sort of a silent rageful moment. The intensity of the rage clearly states as strong as day that i'm still in the middle of working out this repressed rage. I'm growing more and more confident; however, that this time will pass and i'll be able to move on.
I'm definitely interested in living better in the present. I think its really an issue of timing for me. Maybe you can be a bit more specific on how the Gremlin book helped you. I wasn't so impressed with the Amazon reveiws on this book.
Thanks Anne - looking foward to your comments. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 04/14/2005 : 15:14:52
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
Something you said in your last post, to Micah - 'Stop living in the past' - that's so important when recovering from TMS for many of us - it takes lots of work to make the psychological/emotional changes necessary to start living in the present, but the rewards make all that work worthwhile.
Anne
Anne- I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying. Are you suggesting that I stop working in the past right now even though i've still got chronic TMS going on and do the working in the present stuff or are you suggesting that I do both the past work and the present work? This is confusing to me because by working in the past I'm seeing relief of my symptoms.
When you were going through your 6 months of grueling "in the past" work did you also do present work in parallel? |
| kenny V |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 22:18:47
Anne,
it is nice to hear you are doing well. And by your mentioning how you view things now, I can really get a sense that you have learned well. Although you needed to retire early you were very fortunate to be able to do so without any more emotional stress. I did remember that you were a teacher and how it was an important part of your life. Teaching can be very rewarding, especially when you are in it for all the right reasons. I can see that now that you are not able to do so, you might feel a sense of emptiness left over.
Anne I can tell that you are a very caring person, (probably have all the do gooder qualities) and it is important that you do find an area that you can continue to make a difference in peoples lives.
The reason I had asked if you were in t special Ed, because I have seen the pattern of to many e teachers becoming very emotionally connected to their children, which in return effected their heath. So in the same way I would have mentioned that you might have been effected in the same way. And again I would say that you should do some sort of outreach involved in helping others to allow you to use your gift.
You still hangin around here show again that you’re in it for all the right reasons. Don’t remember names nor conditions too well, but do remember that you were there. Kindof forgot allot after the board went sour.
Although we did have some fun time to time. Remember Delilah that came to visit for the weekend?
Ol’e tennis tom had me in a belly buster laugh and my cheeks and side began to get sore. At lest it wasn’t TMS sore. Id have to peal those onions as Gary would say, Any way I guess I should remember the good days and leave it that way, because there was some friction back then and the recovery process is pretty painful.
I really don’t recall l replying to you personally so I hope I wasn’t offensive at any time and actually helped in some way.
And Thank you for your kind comments.
God bless
Kenny V
Always Hope For Recovery
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| n/a |
Posted - 04/13/2005 : 02:27:35
I was a primary teacher, Kenny - I taught Primary 7 (11 - 12 years olds); sometimes Primary 6 (one year younger).
I'm not working at the moment - and, yes, having to give up my job certainly did cause great emotional turmoil. I couldn't see any other option at the time though.
Conditions in teaching in Scotland are pretty generous as far as ill-health is concerned - we get the first six months of absence through illness on full salary, then another six on half-salary; so we don't have to make any long term decisions for a year.
I went back twice during the year I was off sick - but the back pain was unbearable. I was only able to do a couple of days each time. So after nine months of absence I decided to apply for early retirement on ill-health grounds, which was granted. If we get retirement on those grounds we are awarded the pension we would be getting if we remained in teaching to retirement age - so it's a really good deal. I can totally understand why the government don't allow people to return when they get an enhanced pension.
I'm really well now - I've worked hard on changing the way I look at things - not being able to take that part time job would have been a devastating blow to the 'old me'; it's a disappointment - no more than that, to the 'new me'.
I hardly ever get back pain, or any of my other 'ailments', now. If I do, I just ignore it and it goes away.
I still read and post here because I'm aware that I still have a TMS personality - it keeps me on track. I like to hear how people who have helped me (like yourself, Kenny) in the past are getting on as well and if I can help anyone else - that's good as well.
Something you said in your last post, to Micah - 'Stop living in the past' - that's so important when recovering from TMS for many of us - it takes lots of work to make the psychological/emotional changes necessary to start living in the present, but the rewards make all that work worthwhile.
It's good to hear that your son is recovering, I hope he continues to do so. The fact that he has such a caring father must be a huge help to him.
Take care
Anne |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 13:57:50
quote:
Originally posted by kenny V
Micah,
The story like you had as child, I am continually exposed to on a regular basis, many by far are much worse…. Trust me. Consider that you have been blessed that you have overcome your original disabilities. And you are capable of functioning by your self in society. Sure you might have some unresolved issues to work out. But you where able to go to college get an engineering degree. Doesn’t seem that anything would be considered out of norm and impossible for you. I can point you to 100 parents that don’t know if their child will ever speak let alone if they will some day be able to care for themselves. I say this lovingly, stop living in the past, make peace with it and move on.
Btw I don’t know what the future holds for my son, but I have learned to live each day with the hope he will have one. And because of this hope he is recovering.
I absolutely agree with you that it could have been a lot worse and i'm lucky that I was able to mostly recover from my trauma. I realized this big time when I read "the shot in the dark" book.
WRT making peace with it and moving on, I think I am doing that right now although my inner child still needs to vent the rage. As my TMS symptoms start to receed, and I think that process is underway, then I will really be able to say enough is enough and move on. As you say the inner child holds the answer. My job is to follow his lead. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 13:30:35
I'm not familiar with him but this does sound like it would be something useful for me to checkout. Thanks for the info. |
| kenny V |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 00:01:57
Micah,
The story like you had as child, I am continually exposed to on a regular basis, many by far are much worse…. Trust me. Consider that you have been blessed that you have overcome your original disabilities. And you are capable of functioning by your self in society. Sure you might have some unresolved issues to work out. But you where able to go to college get an engineering degree. Doesn’t seem that anything would be considered out of norm and impossible for you. I can point you to 100 parents that don’t know if their child will ever speak let alone if they will some day be able to care for themselves. I say this lovingly, stop living in the past, make peace with it and move on.
Btw I don’t know what the future holds for my son, but I have learned to live each day with the hope he will have one. And because of this hope he is recovering.
quote:
It's been a considerably more difficult road to recovery since I appear to be one of the rare cases of TMS where I have to feel the emotion to get relief. But about a year ago I feel I really put it together when I realized that I had a glasier of repressed rage stored up from early childhood and I was able to finally feel it. Now i'm just trying to practice feeling the feelings and hoping that one day my psyche will settle down.
Again I will say you might have a unique makeup that requires your own personal mind body prescription.
But that is not to say that you are of a rare case of TMS. Continue to work on the things that you have already realized as you continue to learn more about yourself and your condition. Every one of us has the answer within, it is just learning how to express and handle our emotions more appropriately.
Always Hope For Recovery
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| kenny V |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 22:54:55
Anne
I have an observation I would like to share, but I am not sure if it may apply.
Possibly you can kindly answer and id like to comment.
If my memory is correct weren’t you teaching in the area of special Ed?
And Bc you were forced into retiring it brought much grief to you personally which effected your condition?
So currently you are not working is this correct?
Btw you didn’t mention how you are doing now these days.
And as far as the Wakefield studies there are about 15 new studies well beyond the scope of his work, many brilliant scientists who have opened this whole "so called epidemic” to the public, it will be a matter of time before it will be exposed. But the major drug companies will do all they can to discredit them to save their tails and loose the trust of the public. Why do you think they fessed up to recalling Viox, Over 160, 000 have died so far. Look what is happening in Angolia. These kids are dropping like flies. Its just a shame we have a blind eye and we are sacrificing the health of our own people and children, and it is all for the sake of profit.
kenny V
Always Hope For Recovery
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| seanf |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 18:51:46
As a followup to my last post, I found this interesting book review of Sarno done by a primal therapy advocate.
http://www.primal-page.com/sarno.htm |
| seanf |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 18:48:15
quote:
Originally posted by miehnesor
quote:
Originally posted by kenny V
What did you say happened to you?
Now i'm just trying to practice feeling the feelings and hoping that one day my psyche will settle down.
miehnesor,
Are you familiar with the work of Arthur Janov? He's the "Primal Scream" therapist that was very much en vogue in the 70s. I've been reading his books recently, and there's a lot of resonance between his ideas and Sarno's. The major difference is that Sarno doesn't think you usually have to feel repressed rage to alleviate symptoms. Janov believes you do, unequivocally.
Janov has only been mentioned a couple times on this board, but I'm curious to hear what other people think of him or his ideas. This seems like as a good a thread as any to do it. |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 15:49:55
Thanks for that, Miehnesor. When I found out I would not be able to teach in regular schools again, I almost signed up straight away with an agency who supplies private tutors for children that need extra tuition (I can work in the private sector), but my husband persuaded me to hang fire and take time to think about what I'd really like to do.
He suggested something similar to what you said - maybe take a course that would qualify me to practise therapy. I've been researching university courses in psychotherapy. The nearest one is 90 miles away- too far for daily travel. However, we have the Open University in the UK - set up by the government way back in the 1960s - it allows you to do distance study and just meet up with your tutors around once a month I think.
Even if I never actually become a therapist, I know that I'd like to study psychotherapy - especially in relation to mind/body conditions.
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| miehnesor |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 13:49:31
quote:
Originally posted by AnneG
It's a pity because two and a half years down the line - I'd have loved to do it again. I was four days away from taking up my post when I found out. I wish I'd known about TMS earlier!
Anne
Anne - maybe you should hang a shingle and help people with mindbody illnesses. You probably know more than most of the medical and psychology community out there and you have a complete understanding of the various facets of TMS. Just a thought. |
| miehnesor |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 13:43:46
quote:
Originally posted by kenny V
What did you say happened to you?
Kenny- Here is my history.
Everything was fine up until about 3 months of age right after the DPT whole cell vaccination. Immediately after the shot I had unconsolable crying which lasted for many hours. When that settled down my personality changed from a very happy expressive infant to emotionally shut down personality. I was emotionless. My parents thought I was deaf. Unfortunately, unlike your mom, mine didn't make the connection that it was the shot that did it. Then the same thing was repeated again at 9 months and at 12 months with basically the same reaction. After the 3'rd shot I was really disconnected from the world. My brother is 13 months younger than me and was a very colliky damanding baby. When he got over that my mom finally decided to work with me and help me return to the world. When my brother had the same DPT shot my folks expected the same aweful reaction and were surprised when he showed no reaction at all. They still didn't put it together that the shot caused my problems. When I was around 2 to 2 and a half my mom started working with me extensively to communicate.
After that the learning disabilities showed up. I was unable to understand verbal speach very well. My mom worked with me extensively for years to comprehend english. She had to repeat things to me multiple times and then she would say to me "now what did I say". I would turn away out of frustration but she would persist and demand that I respond. Over time we did develop a strong bond.
I vividly remember not learning how to read in first grade and my parents trying to teach me during the summer. I have shame memories associated with that, especailly from my father, since he couldn't understand why I couldn't grasp the reading concepts.
Eventually over time I did learn how to understand and read and do things that others did easily. But it took time and even in high school I struggled with reading comprehension issues. I was not a bad student and went to college and got an electrical engineering degree and worked in the field for a long time. Of course I couldn't compare to my brother who was valadictorian of high school and college and is now a tenued professor at the University of California. I was probably unconsciously envious of his ease at doing things that were a real struggle for me but consciously we have always had a great relationship.
I was depressed as a young child and had asthma and other more minor psychosomatic symptoms. TMS really started for me as a teenager with various tendonitis problems. Then the $%^& hit the fan in 1991 with full blown RSI in both hands. I discovered that stretching provided some relief in 1995 but as all TMS'ers know that was no cure for the problem. In 2000 I self diagnosed myself with TMS after reading Sarno but all efforts to deal with the problem psychologically didn't bare any fruit for a full 1 1/2 years when I finally felt the sadness and the subsequent TMS release. I remember thinking - wow this is it - i've got confirmation of the diagnosis and will be getting better.
It's been a considerably more difficult road to recovery since I appear to be one of the rare cases of TMS where I have to feel the emotion to get relief. But about a year ago I feel I really put it together when I realized that I had a glasier of repressed rage stored up from early childhood and I was able to finally feel it. Now i'm just trying to practice feeling the feelings and hoping that one day my psyche will settle down.
For TMS purposes i've got repressed rage at my parents that needs to be expressed. From the childs perspective he felt abandoned and very angry.
From the adult perspective I don't blame them. It's not really their fault. They did the best they could (considering their own unresolved wounds from their childhoods) under a very difficult situation manufactured by the medical community. It was expected back then that you just listen to the doctor and do what they say. Now we know better. |
| n/a |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 11:32:08
You have a good memory, Kenny - I took early retirement from teaching and have the luxury of time - so many of us don't these days; a recipe for TMS. Yes, we did indeed chat on the old board - it's good to hear from you again.
I had actually arranged to go back to teaching two days a week, but due to one set of office workers not communicating with another; if I had taken up the post, I'd have lost all of my (rather good) teacher's pension. Anyone who has taken early retirement due to ill-health can't teach - it used to be allowed, but the rules changed.
It's a pity because two and a half years down the line - I'd have loved to do it again. I was four days away from taking up my post when I found out. I wish I'd known about TMS earlier!
Thanks for the info about Dr Andrew Wakefield - the trouble is there have been so many health scandals and cover-ups in the UK in recent years (mad cow disease in humans - the government denied that one for years; Sudan I - a carcogineric dye that found its way into food products to name but two), that many of us suspect cover-up even where there isn't one.
Best wishes
Anne |
| kenny V |
Posted - 04/11/2005 : 08:15:44
Good stuff Anne, you seem to have a good grasp on things and I like the way you have applied this to your own treatment approach.
Very well rounded, you seem seasoned in this ay? Very insightful
I haven’t been around in a while. I think we chatted way back when on the old forum.
Can you refresh my mem? You are retired and taking it easy now if im not mistaken?
How are things going for you, and your recovery process?
Btw Andrew Wakefield blew the doors off the MMR connection in the UK.
Peace
Kenny V
Always Hope For Recovery
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