| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| filipe |
Posted - 09/11/2013 : 08:06:54
Hello again
First of all let me tell you that I'm completely alone with my TMS/Sarno books trying to overcome my chronic pain in both my arms.This is due to the fact that psychotherapy in my country is very expensive, I don't want to be numb taking painkillers or antidepressants, which is not so expensive and regular physicians don't know what I'm talking about.
As I already said in this forum, my problem started after doing some exercises ata home with dumbells. I now believe that the cause for my injury was a repetitive exercise which shortened my muscles due to the formation of what is today known as trigger points, which in turn compressed both my radial, median and ulnar nerves, which compromised blood flow to boh my arms. the problem is that I have had this chronic pain for 3 years now. I did everything, namely physiotherapy, which worsened my condition.
It seems that drawing my attention to the subject as well as touching my muscles and therefore peripheral nerves, is the worst thing I can do.
However, after my initial crisis, when I avoid working with the computer, playing console games or similar, my problem tends to get better towards a cure. The problem is that I work with computers and cannot obviously leave my job.
This holiday I was away from all computers for a long time. On the other hand I was completely obsessed with a hobby.
I felt no pain. But when I came back and started working in the pc again the pain came back, too. This leads me to conclude that trigger points are caused by psychosomatic factos/ TMS. But if this is true, why did they appear in the 1st place? And also, how do they go away forever? Sometimes I think it's not me who is suffering from TmS but my muscles instead. after all there's something called muscle memory, right? For instance if I wanted to forget how to ride a bike, that would be impossible.
Sometimes I talk to my muscles instead of talking to my brain. This is driving me crazy. When I try to relax my brachial plexus muscles, the pain subsides but their normal state is rigid and stiff.But I cannot consciously relax my muscles all the time.By the way, is this kind of rigidity that is found on John Sarno's TMS? Is tension the same as muscles' rigidity?
By the way, the neuropatic pain I feel is real and I'm now sure is due to nerve compression. There is no neuropathy.
Thanks
Filipe
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| stocktrader |
Posted - 09/20/2013 : 08:44:29
Good explanation ACE. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/20/2013 : 07:58:01
Hi Filipe,
the ANS becomes dysfunctional. It is a tightly regulated system, but when overstimulated, at particular points in time, arterioles (smaller blood vessels) that shouldnt constrict, start to constrict, things that shouldnt dilate, start to dilate. Where this starts to happen is where the person becomes symptomatic. Exercise is fine as long as you are not doing it to overcome your symptoms. You do it completely independent of you symptoms, without trying to use the symptomatic area more or less while doing the exercise. In addition, if you are in an extrememly sensitized situation, it may be best to focus on deconditioning and relaxation than to exercise at that point. The whole premise is simple but hard to change, what it is is stopping your nervous system from being too excited in the various situations in your life and then giving it time to change. This involves breaking bad habits. My list details this the best that I understand. |
| filipe |
Posted - 09/20/2013 : 02:11:24
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
No the muscle stiffness did not degrange the nerves. The ANS (autonomic nervous system) is hyperstimulated by intense behavior. I believe that TMS is a regional process (as does Dr. Sarno) Dr. Sarno mentions this in healing back pain. A region becomes O2 deficient due to autonomic instabilty and vasoconstriction of arterioles in the affected region and everything there is effected_ nerves, muscles, or any living tissue and that leads to pain or whatever including trigger points. When your at the computer I'll bet, you are just anxious for everything you do on there to be done with so you can move on to the next task on the computer. In other words you are not in the present moment while your working and you are straining to be faster than your body or time will allow. Try practicing the visualization of yourself at the computer when you get in that mode, it helps bring you back in the present (its in my keys to healing list). Also try not to go with the strong urge to do the next thing. Gigalos is 100% correct that in saying that treating the TrP only keeps it there. Remember you can not do anything to the symptom except to use it as a sign, otherwise you will only feed it.
Hi Gigalos and ACE
Can you explain me what oxygen depravation does to muscles? And what de ANS do to them when overstimulated? Is repetitive light exercices bad for your muscles? For isntances this exercices (flextend glove) seem to make me worse than good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6cIcuLnYrc
Is it Nocibo?
Once I had a chinese tuiná massage. Whole body. I was literaly beaten by 2 stupid massagists. All muscles became rock solid for months. I still have nighmares with it... It seems like muscles have there own mind. It seems like they are suffering from PTSD, if yoy know what i mean...
Thanks :)
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| Dave |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 14:01:54
Diazepam (Valium) is for anxiety; it is not surprising that it would help alleviate the pain.
You are very much focused in the physical realm. I suggest you read Dr. Sarno's book and try to accept the pain as TMS. As long as you continue to explain your pain with terms like "shortened...muscles" and "compressed...nerves" you are not likely to experience relief if the pain is in fact psychogenic. |
| filipe |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 12:54:36
I understand what you're saying, however the problem here is that my muscles seem to be stuck in the contraction position.
When my pain started 3 years ago, I went to the hospital and was given a powerful neuro muscular relaxante - diazepam. I thought i was cured. How I was wrong!
This medicine either relaxes my CNS or my muscles so they stopped compressing my radial nerve.
Is Sarno against decompression nerve surgery? Or he thinks there's no such thing?
sometimes i compare what is happening with my arms muscles to vaginismus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginismus
Thanks
Filipe
PS: this is the noise my elbow makes after being at the computer.. if i relax my elbow turn to normal again:~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6-ANtdnlVU |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 12:30:23
The premise that muscle constriction compresses nerve has to be silly bc then anyone who excersies or runs would have numbness from doing these normal activities. We are also talking about perfectly healthy people. Therefore this mechanism cannot be the reason. |
| gigalos |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 12:22:51
Filipe, I don't know the exact mechanism, all I know is that numbness is a pretty common symptom.
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| filipe |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 12:13:00
but how can i be sure my nerve isn't compressed? sometimes my arms get numb...
On the other hand the EMG came out normal... my dr told me it was my tennis elbow that was compressing the radial nerve... He didn't told me the emg wasnt reliable though :( I mean if you did a X-ra, you can be sure the bone isn't cracked... you can't say the same with peripheral nerves :( |
| gigalos |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 12:03:40
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
[quote]Originally posted by filipe
P.S. I've been told here that I could be sued for expressing myself to help others in pain, so to play it safe let me say I'm just a tennis player and not a medical professional--so always get your pain **** checked out by a doc to make sure it's not something serious like a tumor mistaken for your left testicle as a chiro-quack-ter once mistakenly imaged on me and be prepared to be further confused.
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| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 10:35:32
quote:
Originally posted by filipe
so the problem is in my brain, rather than on the muscle itself?
In my personal view, arteries follow the nerves path. You have the radial nerve, and close to it the radial artery. If tou compress the nerve or disturb its pathway you are compressing also ther artery, right (the blood flow)?
For instances, don't diabetic people start having blood problems with their limbs because sugar starts attacking their peripheral nerves?  .
Do you think the reynaud phenonom is TMS?
I once bought a book called The Trigger point Therapy.
Why isn't there a consensos if there is really something going on in our muscles or in the brain?
ps: I'm almost sure that most of the auto-imune deseases are TMS. This is so powerful...
The TMS pain originates in the SUBCONSCIOUS BRAIN created to be a psychological distraction. If a nerve is truly traumatically compressed, it will stop transmitting pain signals and will go numb. Arteries and nerves are separate physiological entities and do not act in tandem as you are picturing them. Blood flows through the arteries. Nerve messages are transmitted by the nerves between sensory receptors and the brain in both directions. They are separate systems. TMS pain as theorized by the Good Doctor occurs on a cellular level, by a minute shutting off of the blood flow to a very small area. It is EXCRUCIATINGLY painful though benign.
In one of Dr. Sarno's latest books there are chapters on diabetes and high blood pressure having psychogenic origins.
On page 351 of SteveO's "GPD" he says Raynauds is TMS.
Trigger point therapy is a physical manipulation treating symptoms, therefore is contrary to TMS theory, which focuses on treating the emotions coming from the brain.
State of mind also effects the autoimmune system. In serious diseases TMS can play be a big contributory factor. Mindbody issues are like which came first the chicken or the egg? As you said, "This is so powerful".
My suggestion would be keep reading TMS books by Dr. Sarno and books written by his professional colleagues and his recovered patients like SteveO and Nicole Sachs until you get the "TMS Knowledge Penicilin" on a subconscious cellular level into your mental medicine cabinet.
Cheers,
tt
P.S. I've been "warned" here that I could be sued for expressing myself to help others in pain, so to play it safe let me say I'm just a tennis player and not a medical professional. So, always get your pain **** checked out by a doc to make sure it's not something serious like a tumor mistaken for your left testicle, as a chiro-quack-ter once mistakenly imaged on me, and be prepared to be further confused.
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| JaxCat |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 06:38:20
Filipe, you ring true when you say that the nervous tissues in our body are invisible to our state of the art scanners. So we look at what we can see and that is usually structural. Maybe if we looked more closely on what our adrenal glands are doing... checked our cortisol levels, etc.
I rush too. It's really hard to stop, slow down and be more mindful. Mental stress turns to physical stress, tension and then symptoms. It's that simple (but in reality so hard to break the conditioning).
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| filipe |
Posted - 09/12/2013 : 01:50:35
so the problem is in my brain, rather than on the muscle itself?
i believ 99.9% that my problem is TMS. However when i'm in a crisis i start looking for other answers but always end in TMS again.
In my personal view, arteries follow the nerves path. You have the radial nerve, and close to it the radial artery. If tou compress the nerve or disturb its pathway you are compressing also ther artery, right (the blood flow)?
For instances, don't diabetic people start having blood problems with their limbs because sugar starts attacking their peripheral nerves? At least this is what they tell us...what is syupid about it, is that they offer decompression surgery to overcome this problema .
Do you think the reynaud phenonom is TMS?
I once bought a book called The Trigger point Therapy. it all made sense for me until starting doing the recommended treatment, which made me feel much worse.
Why isn't there a consensos if there is really something going on in our muscles or in the brain? Perhaps this is due to the fact that nerve tissue is invisible in the standard imagiology exams.
Thanks
ps: I'm almost sure that most of the auto-imune deseases are TMS. This is so powerful...
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| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/11/2013 : 14:33:32
No the muscle stiffness did not degrange the nerves. The ANS (autonomic nervous system) is hyperstimulated by intense behavior. I believe that TMS is a regional process (as does Dr. Sarno) Dr. Sarno mentions this in healing back pain. A region becomes O2 deficient due to autonomic instabilty and vasoconstriction of arterioles in the affected region and everything there is effected_ nerves, muscles, or any living tissue and that leads to pain or whatever including trigger points. When your at the computer I'll bet, you are just anxious for everything you do on there to be done with so you can move on to the next task on the computer. In other words you are not in the present moment while your working and you are straining to be faster than your body or time will allow. Try practicing the visualization of yourself at the computer when you get in that mode, it helps bring you back in the present (its in my keys to healing list). Also try not to go with the strong urge to do the next thing. Gigalos is 100% correct that in saying that treating the TrP only keeps it there. Remember you can not do anything to the symptom except to use it as a sign, otherwise you will only feed it. |
| filipe |
Posted - 09/11/2013 : 13:41:12
Hi
Thanks for replying :)
As you understand I strongly believe that the ischemia seen on TMS is due to nerve compression by unrelaxed or stiff muscles. what I don't understand is how and why a muscle learns to be stiff. It seems that when I'm sat at the computer my muscles lock on a contraction mode that takes too long for them to relax again. This wasn't true until I started doing the repetitive exercises with dumbells.
I also use to have atrial fibrillation and stomach problems that I'm now sure were due to muscles stiffness that deranged the respective nerves. those problems used to arise also when I was sat at the PC (I used to confront my doctor with that question which he discarded), so I ask: is sitting at the computer realy so stressful to the body?
By the way, it is a shame and unbelievable that there arealmost no doctors familiar with TMS. For instance, there are dozens of physiotherapists all over Portugal and there is no one in those clinics to address psychosomatic pain, that's why I don't go to the doctors.
Thanks
Filipe
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| gigalos |
Posted - 09/11/2013 : 10:53:32
Hi Filipe,
In my opinion triggerpoints indeed are TMS. I like to see it as a mind driven symptom that appears in muscles that had to work hard for a while. In a relaxed state of mind this gives sore muscles at the most, but in a strained state of mind the soreness sticks and tp's appear and stay unless the mind relaxes again.
I found out personally (and so did others here) that treating tp's or messing with the muscles doesn't do much and sometimes sets everything on fire. Leaving them alone is the best way to treat them.
I don't know a thing about muscle memory, but if it exists I think you will find it in the nervous system and not in the muscle structure itself. (??)
Isn't talking to your muscle the same as focussing on the symptom?? I do think the rigidity is the same as tension, but leave that to the better educated people here :)
You now know it is all mind driven so try to stop focussing on the symptoms. Take care |
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