| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| pan |
Posted - 06/29/2013 : 04:47:28
I don't want this to turn into one of those benefit/hindrance of forums debates as forums are only really one source of information...the query relates to information gathering and effect this has on recovery in general.
The reason I've been thinking about this as a result of a mild argument I had with my wife over the amount of time I'm spending on the Internet researching both TMS/stress illness and also looking for 'proof' or 'evidence' that my back and leg pain isn't structural or physical...like Hillbilly mentioned in his recovery thread it's like I'm looking for somebody with exactly the same symptoms in exactly the same location as if this will somehow give me that lightbulb moment of ultimate insight and reassurance of course I know this ain't gonna happen.
This all harks back to my health anxiety days when literally every minute of my life was spent online investigation stuff...stupidly being a mod on an anxiety forum didn't really help matters either. I think my wife is concerned that she sees me in danger of going back down the route of obsession.
I was struck like night that I have about 30 bloody self help books on my Kindle and about 10 of these are specifically about TMS and/or stress illness...I've read, dipped into most of these and always seem to refer to them which mainly seems to be for reassurance.
I know Monte is a firm believer in the idea that too much information and investigation about TMS is pretty much TMSing in itself and I'm starting to see this in myself. What I've noticed is that I'm happy all day long to process the concept of TMS on a rational/intellectual level all day long but this is something that is done in my mind and doesn't actually challenge anything. I sit there reading thinking, yeah that makes sense, I do that etc etc but it doesn't go any further than that, I just then move on to finding the next nugget of insightful information that may give me the key to the lock....the key to the lock that the lazy coward within is to afraid to actually turn. The truth of the matter is that TMS is such a simple concept...it's nothing new, the ideas of somatisation and conversion are as old as the hills and all you need to know is that emotional stress, worry, fear and anxiety etc convert to physical symptoms...I know it's as simple as this and it's all I need to know but still the rational/intellectual and of course fearful part of me still wants to sit there wasting my life pouring over the books and Internet in a loop of information overload and stasis.
The funny thing is I've also got all 10 books that encapsulate the Swallows and Amazons series on my Kindle. I loved those books as a kid and whilst they hardly seem relevant in this age of the Internet, micro adventures and £500 tents they speak of a time when kids could dream of adventure and their parents let them out to play and camp in the garden all night when the world wasn't such a dangerous place. What I'm sort of getting at is these books inspire feelings and memories and whilst its an intellectual process to read those books the thoughts they inspire generate feelings.
That's the point I'm making here I think....whilst I keep going back to works of the good doctor, Steve O etc all they do is intellectualise TMS for me. Don't get me wrong, this is fine in the early days but there must come a point when you realise that this process is what is keeping you stuck...it's that old adage about problems not being able to be solved on the same level of thinking that created them.
I just wondered what other people thought on this issue and if they also had similar feelings of being stuck and bewildered in the headlight glare of information overload. I know I need to do the work and the work is actually starting to teach myself to feel rather than to rationalise my way through life...there must be a reason I don't allow myself to do that...it makes me also think of something else Hillbilly mentioned that what he was suffering from was boredom and cowardice. I actually thought the other night what would I be doing if I wasn't spending those hours on the Internet etc and I had very little to think of...that's probably the crux of the problem in many ways.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 17:25:00
quote:
Originally posted by pan
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
You are, respectfully, continuing to overanalyze. You aren't going to be able to reconcile all the views and theories and books and advice and success stories and mantras and aphorisms into some intellectually coherent whole. Better to choose what most resonates with you. And if some piece of dogma doesn't resonate, who cares? There are no a priori truths here.
Having been here on and off for 5 years it sure seems there are at times. ;)
In my opinion, and no disrespect to anyone, there are people here who extrapolate from their personal successes to universal truth, or quote from books etc. as if the theories there were scientific truth, but I see no evidence that any of the dogma is an absolute truth as distinct from a theory or a method that has enjoyed some success. |
| pan |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 16:40:30
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
You are, respectfully, continuing to overanalyze. You aren't going to be able to reconcile all the views and theories and books and advice and success stories and mantras and aphorisms into some intellectually coherent whole. Better to choose what most resonates with you. And if some piece of dogma doesn't resonate, who cares? There are no a priori truths here.
Having been here on and off for 5 years it sure seems there are at times. ;) |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 16:25:54
You are, respectfully, continuing to overanalyze. You aren't going to be able to reconcile all the views and theories and books and advice and success stories and mantras and aphorisms into some intellectually coherent whole. Better to choose what most resonates with you. And if some piece of dogma doesn't resonate, who cares? There are no a priori truths here. |
| pan |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 16:19:58
quote:
Originally posted by tmsjptc
RSR, very good points. It is interesting to read and learn about this "feelings" stuff but alas I'm still not feeling it! Now that I can recognize and interpret it, I see evidence everywhere in my history to support why I have TMS. But, when I ask myself what I'm feeling, I must admit I don't feel anything. According to Dr. Sarno, you don't necessarily have to even figure out what your suppressed rage is all about, you just have to know it is there and challenge your unconscious mind that the distraction is no longer going to work because you have figured it out. Maybe I need to go back to doing that (challenging it)? I don't know. I just got tired of asking that question over and over and not knowing what the rage (that is supposedly there) is coming from. So, I moved on to calming my nerves, relaxing, having peace, living in the now, ignoring the pain, floating through it, etc, etc.
This actually raises something that I have been thinking on today.
Whilst partaking in my information gathering activities I can see their ate actually two distinct theories regarding TMS/stress illness. One of these seems to incorporate the idea that out symptoms are caused by repressed emotions whilst another school of thought seem to borrow from the latest scientific advances in pain knowledge and sees chronic pain as more of a neurological condition caused by an overstimulated and sensitised nervous system. I'm just wondering if these theories are actually mutually exclusive or if they are compatible?
I do think I'm more drawn to the idea that chronic pain is the result of a misfiring nervous system but having said this the nervous system is very much controlled by our emotions so the likelihood is this is a reciprocal process...I'm much the same as I honesty struggle to locate any feelings let alone manage to actually feel them so my belief is that if I do have stress illness then this is likely to be the result of 5 years constant body fixation which has shafted up my nervous system and internal pain amplification levels.
As my other threads on here show I'm struggling pretty bad at the moment but do feel that the practise of mindfulness and attempt to lose the fear of my symptoms will serve me better then the hunt for those repressed emotions. I think whatever path you take though it is a total 100% commitment that is required and I know this is my stumbling block. |
| tmsjptc |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 16:05:27
RSR, very good points. It is interesting to read and learn about this "feelings" stuff but alas I'm still not feeling it! Now that I can recognize and interpret it, I see evidence everywhere in my history to support why I have TMS. But, when I ask myself what I'm feeling, I must admit I don't feel anything. According to Dr. Sarno, you don't necessarily have to even figure out what your suppressed rage is all about, you just have to know it is there and challenge your unconscious mind that the distraction is no longer going to work because you have figured it out. Maybe I need to go back to doing that (challenging it)? I don't know. I just got tired of asking that question over and over and not knowing what the rage (that is supposedly there) is coming from. So, I moved on to calming my nerves, relaxing, having peace, living in the now, ignoring the pain, floating through it, etc, etc. |
| pan |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 14:22:57
I think we also need to take into account that feeling is not just about negative emotion..feeling also allows us to truly experience the highs of life. I've often wondered if I have actually experienced really experienced true joy and happiness in my life as I always have the barriers up and as a result happiness always seems to be both fleeting and incomplete.
I suppose this can be traced back to the fact that many of us don't actually let ourselves experience joy as we are petrified that the mere act of recognising it and allowing ourselves to be fully receptive to it them sets us up for that nasty fall when it all comes crashing down.
I think fear, hate and angst are in any ways easier emotions and feelings to live with than happiness, love and empathy as we believe we future proof ourselves from future hurt. Haters gonna hate! ;) |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 14:10:23
pan, some of my thoughts on this issue:
The payoff / benefit of "increasing our doubt and confusion" or overloading ourselves with information (both pro and con) is that we don't have to face or experience our emotional pain. It is much easier to READ about the potential power of emotional pain than to sit with ourselves and actually experience it, (which IMHO can be SO painful that yes, I would choose any other distraction, including physical pain, dissociation, being a goodist/ perfectionist / people pleaser, internet /book addict etc. than to be with the blinding emotional pain of my life.)
quote:
I know I need to do the work and the work is actually starting to teach myself to feel rather than to rationalise my way through life..
Well, if FEELING is so painful that it is actually aversive (in my case at least) then we really have very little motivation to FEEL our feelings. "Rationalizing my way through life" has MUCH bigger rewards (in the short term at least) so that's why it's so much more compelling and easy to do. No sane person would choose to do the aversive, where the costs are so much higher than the payoffs.
In short, "information overload" has many great payoffs; feeling my feelings? well, sometimes it seems: 'not so much.'
RSR |
| pan |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 13:41:09
Yep...precisely my point about the media you interact with be it TV, books or games etc, I think the main thing is to try and get out of the intellectual and rational internal dialogue and make ourselves more receptive to feelings and the possibility that things can be different...it a route I'm trying to follow anyway.
As an aiside, one aspect of the information gathering that I notice I constantly do and is the ultimate act of sabotage is to find some information that I find reassuring and inspiring buy instead of leaving it at that I have to then continue and unearth some information that counters it and drops me back in the quagmire of doubt and confusion...a bit like a gambler who just doesn't know when to stick. |
| tmsjptc |
Posted - 07/01/2013 : 10:53:53
Pan, probably no one has the EXACT same symptoms (location, frequency, severity, etc) since we are all unique individuals and TMS can manifest literally in almost any part of your body. But, symptoms aside, I feel like I could have written exactly what you just wrote. I must be in about the same place as you right now.
I mostly listen to audiobooks on my commute and have been keeping a list of them. I'm up to 61 books now in the last two years. 22 of them have been TMS/Self-Help/Spiritual books with some of them read multiple times (I read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle four times).
I too feel like it has become almost its own obsession. Yet, for all of my work, I don't feel completely "cured" (I know 100% pain-free is unrealistic but I still feel like there is some pain I have yet to get rid of). But, I am better than I was so I see the benefit in learning about this and applying myself, so I don't stop and instead keep looking for that last bit of info that is going to finish the job.
I don't know about the Swallows and Amazons series, but I've been reading other stuff that does the same thing for me. For instance, the Eragon storyline (boy and his dragon) is interesting because it is about him growing up and becoming a dragonrider while overcoming great adversity while being challenged at every turn. But, it isn't about physical prowess really. It is more about emotional dynamics and overcoming mental barriers and learning to believe things you never thought possible before except in your dreams. In this sense, these type of books almost seem like they are teaching me to feel, rather than intellectualize, more than the TMS books. Because of this, I try to keep a balance and not read too much of one or the other and just be patient that I will get there whenever I'm supposed to.
Take care friend. |
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