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[quote][i]Originally posted by art[/i]
[br]I�ve found it to be quite helpful to look for patterns in my pain as a means to identifying when something is psychosomatic. Of course everyone�s different, but I suspect that many to perhaps most of us can spot certain predictable patterns which makes the determination as to whether something�s physical or psychosomatic easier.This takes time and experience, but it can be done.

Yesterday I was on a run and feeling pain in both knees. The pain in the right knee I�m certain is TMS. I�ve had it off and on for almost a year now. It returns during times of stress, and goes away when I�ve sufficiently reassured myself it�s nothing to worry about. That usually takes a few days. Why so long? Well it�s one thing to know something intellectually, and sometimes another to  know it in your gut. I�ve found that it�s the second kind of knowledge that works the best when it comes to TMS. You can�t force it. It has to come naturally, from within. Once it does, you�re generally home free.

The pain in my left knee was new. New pain is always tough. I�m a runner. Runners get hurt. Especially 62 year old runners. Especially 62 year old runners who are in the midst of increasing their distance.  I finished my run while giving myself  the type of self-talk that I�ve found to be so helpful...

It goes something like this:

"Either this is real, or it�s not. If it�s not, then terrific. If it is, then it�s likely something that I�ll quickly recover from. Either way, it�s far from the end of my running career.

In the unlikely event that it�s serious, then that�s fine too. I�m 62 years old. I�ve had a good long running career. I have my health. I have my family. If I can�t run then I�ll just go for walks. Or bike. Or swim. I�m a lucky guy, to be able to do those things. Lots of people would kill to be able to do such things. And don�t ever forget (I�m still talking to myself here), life is short. And often full of pain. I need to be grateful for every decent moment."

Etc. etc. etc....Whatever I can say to lessen worry, and to give myself a broader, less selfish, more spiritual if you will perspective is always immensely helpful. This isn�t some pious wish to become a better person, but simply enlightened self-interest at work. Too much ego...that is a conception of the universe as a place in which we individuals are more important than we obviously are (which is to say not very important at all)...leads to anxiety inducing distortions that cause/worsen/perpetuate psychosomatic pain.

For me, TMS usually comes in waves. Throbbing, aching, twinging...whatever it is it usually comes and goes, rather than some steady pain. Of course this is going to vary from individual to individual. The key is to find what seems to be the case for you.

Situational cues are important as well.. For example, my TMS pain tends to disappear at night. During the day, it seems to come on when I�m doing certain chores, and when I�m playing the piano, and when I�m getting ready to go on a run. When I notice a pain coming and going on a situational basis, I can be pretty sure it�s TMS. Also, when pain varies as a function of increasing and decreasing stress. For me, that�s the most telling cue of all.

Hope this helps some others...

Also as always, interested in other people�s experience.
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art	Posted - 05/14/2013 : 19:04:35 I�ve found it to be quite helpful to look for patterns in my pain as a means to identifying when something is psychosomatic. Of course everyone�s different, but I suspect that many to perhaps most of us can spot certain predictable patterns which makes the determination as to whether something�s physical or psychosomatic easier.This takes time and experience, but it can be done. Yesterday I was on a run and feeling pain in both knees. The pain in the right knee I�m certain is TMS. I�ve had it off and on for almost a year now. It returns during times of stress, and goes away when I�ve sufficiently reassured myself it�s nothing to worry about. That usually takes a few days. Why so long? Well it�s one thing to know something intellectually, and sometimes another to know it in your gut. I�ve found that it�s the second kind of knowledge that works the best when it comes to TMS. You can�t force it. It has to come naturally, from within. Once it does, you�re generally home free. The pain in my left knee was new. New pain is always tough. I�m a runner. Runners get hurt. Especially 62 year old runners. Especially 62 year old runners who are in the midst of increasing their distance. I finished my run while giving myself the type of self-talk that I�ve found to be so helpful... It goes something like this: "Either this is real, or it�s not. If it�s not, then terrific. If it is, then it�s likely something that I�ll quickly recover from. Either way, it�s far from the end of my running career. In the unlikely event that it�s serious, then that�s fine too. I�m 62 years old. I�ve had a good long running career. I have my health. I have my family. If I can�t run then I�ll just go for walks. Or bike. Or swim. I�m a lucky guy, to be able to do those things. Lots of people would kill to be able to do such things. And don�t ever forget (I�m still talking to myself here), life is short. And often full of pain. I need to be grateful for every decent moment." Etc. etc. etc....Whatever I can say to lessen worry, and to give myself a broader, less selfish, more spiritual if you will perspective is always immensely helpful. This isn�t some pious wish to become a better person, but simply enlightened self-interest at work. Too much ego...that is a conception of the universe as a place in which we individuals are more important than we obviously are (which is to say not very important at all)...leads to anxiety inducing distortions that cause/worsen/perpetuate psychosomatic pain. For me, TMS usually comes in waves. Throbbing, aching, twinging...whatever it is it usually comes and goes, rather than some steady pain. Of course this is going to vary from individual to individual. The key is to find what seems to be the case for you. Situational cues are important as well.. For example, my TMS pain tends to disappear at night. During the day, it seems to come on when I�m doing certain chores, and when I�m playing the piano, and when I�m getting ready to go on a run. When I notice a pain coming and going on a situational basis, I can be pretty sure it�s TMS. Also, when pain varies as a function of increasing and decreasing stress. For me, that�s the most telling cue of all. Hope this helps some others... Also as always, interested in other people�s experience.
10 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
art	Posted - 05/15/2013 : 10:30:18 quote: Originally posted by pspa123 The great line from Plato comes to mind, as quoted in Dale Carnegie: bear lightly what must needs be. Exactly ps. Beautiful quote. It�s actually quite frightening, when you get right down to it. The things that life demands of us as we get older especially.
tennis tom	Posted - 05/15/2013 : 09:54:04 quote: Originally posted by GTfan I guess the doubt is just another thing the subconscious generates to strengthen its distraction. YUP! tt/lsmft ================================================== DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS: www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ : http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605 ================================================== "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti "Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown "Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst "Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto "The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter "...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox ====================================================== "If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod ================================================= TMS PRACTITIONERS: John Sarno, MD 400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016 (212) 263-6035 Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum: http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki: http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).: http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html
GTfan	Posted - 05/15/2013 : 09:33:28 I recently have recently had a strong resurgance of groin pain after several weeks of little to no pain. The pain has been pretty constant for almost 4 days now, not showing much signs of reducing. This has been quite a setback for me, and I'm having a hard time finding emotional triggers. I'm going back and reading some books, and hopefully I can get this back under control. I think I know that I have TMS, but everytime I experience the pain there is some doubt that maybe this time there really is something wrong with me. I guess the doubt is just another thing the subconscious generates to strengthen its distraction. You�ll fall down, you stumble, you land square on your face. And every time that happens, you get back on your feet. You get up just as fast as you can, no matter how many times you need to do it
pspa123	Posted - 05/15/2013 : 09:13:34 The great line from Plato comes to mind, as quoted in Dale Carnegie: bear lightly what must needs be.
art	Posted - 05/15/2013 : 06:35:38 quote: Originally posted by pspa123 Art that is great advice and essentially what I have been doing although occasionally I fall short on point 2 and get a bit frustrated. The old cliche, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, says it all. But it is not intuitive to think that way. No, not intuitive at all. Our ever instinct is to kick and scream and moan and cry. At least that�s my instinct. It�s never easy for me either. I�ve wasted so much time and precious energy on useless worry. It never helps, and always hurts in one way or another... Hang in..
pspa123	Posted - 05/15/2013 : 06:05:40 Art that is great advice and essentially what I have been doing although occasionally I fall short on point 2 and get a bit frustrated. The old cliche, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, says it all. But it is not intuitive to think that way.
art	Posted - 05/15/2013 : 05:11:22 Hey ps, Given the MRI and the steady pain I�d probably treat it as real. Others might disagree. TWo things: 1: There�s an increasing body of evidence that barring something that obviously needs rest...a break, a tear, something acutely painful....things heal just fine with continued, moderate use. Often, things heal even more quickly when used. So there�s that. I�d use it to the extent possible as long as I�m not making it obviously worse... 2: It�s a good opportunity to practice acceptance. If it�s real, no amount of anxiety, worry, obsessing, wishing, etc, will make it go away. In all cases, the best course is cheerful acceptance. If you can manage that, either it will reveal itself to be psychosomatic after all, or you will have a much more pleasant recovery time. The body heals, time passes. Be good to yourself. Be patient.
pspa123	Posted - 05/14/2013 : 19:54:44 Art -- basically if I am using it -- walking, or biking, or even standing -- it hurts. It hurts if I have to keep it bent. If I am sitting stretching it out, it hurts less. I don't think that's what you mean -- the answer is no, it isn't situational in the sense of varying with stress, place, who I am with, etc. etc.
art	Posted - 05/14/2013 : 19:47:07 quote: Originally posted by pspa123 Art good points and a wonderfully enlightened attitude. While some of my pain is definitely psychogenic, I am less sure about the right knee which has been bothering me for some time now -- it's pretty constant, and there is definite inflammation of the joint lining and a large effusion visible on a scan. And it isn't responding to attitudes and self-talk that have an effect, if only temporary, on other sources of pain. Hi pspa, I�m not a hardliner. We�re human, tough but mortal. We do get injured at times. If you can truly embrace your pain in the right knee, that is simply accept it and stop worrying about it, you�ll soon know if it�s real of not. I realize that�s a tall order. But it�s something to strive for... Have you noticed any patterns with the right knee pain? Certain times it�s more likely to hurt than others? Certain situations?
pspa123	Posted - 05/14/2013 : 19:31:18 Art good points and a wonderfully enlightened attitude. While some of my pain is definitely psychogenic, I am less sure about the right knee which has been bothering me for some time now -- it's pretty constant, and there is definite inflammation of the joint lining and a large effusion visible on a scan. And it isn't responding to attitudes and self-talk that have an effect, if only temporary, on other sources of pain.

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