| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sdiddy |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 14:19:38
Just wondering about your experience with cortisone? I have had shoulder pain for about a year (diagnosed as a small rotator cuff tear and bursitis), done months of PT and RICE, etc with no relief. Last november I finally decided to do a cortisone shot and the pain went away totally (keeping in mind that I still "babyed" my shoulder after the shot, not playing sports and whatnot.
As soon as I finally started lifting light weights and playing sports again about 2 months after the shot, the pain came back. I have since then stopped playing sports and weights, and started focusing on TMS therapy.
Its been a month now and have definitely had relief of some of the shooting and throbbing "referred" pain, but the sharp deep pain in the rotator cuff is still there, and hurts with specific movements.
It got me thinking, what EXACTLY did the cortisone do to relieve the pain, IF IN FACT, this is TMS? I mean, does cortisone simply numb or mask the pain? They say its a powerful anti-inflammatory, so it makes me wonder about my shoulder and what is the cause of my pain? I want to know because it will help me figure it out and hopefully heal it.
I REALLY and truly want to believe this is all TMS, and have even committed to it mentally, not stressing about it for 1 month now and doing tms mental exercises, but I have not seen significant results as I did years ago when i had severe back pain and read Healing Back Pain for the first time. This makes me wonder if there is something physically wrong in my shoulder.
Any input is greatly appreciated....thanks |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dave |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 09:57:13
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
not focusing on it - just curious because i have a very analytic mind by nature and I like to understand the science behind everything.
This is common in TMS-prone people, but I have to say, it is definitely not an advantage. Over-analysis is counterproductive and can actually become a distraction in and of itself. Recovery does not require detailed understanding of the science behind TMS. I believe that we will never truly understand the exact nature of how the pain is induced; Dr. Sarno's theory of reduced blood flow may only be a small part of the equation.
quote:
It does make sense though that it would provide a temporary relief of pain by reducing the inflammation in the area through "brute force" methods, but then of course TMS will win in the long run and come back again.
No doubt, the cortisone shot can offer successful treatment of the symptoms, same as taking an Advil might temporarily relieve muscle soreness even if it is due to TMS. The fact that you experienced relief from the shot should not affect your belief that the pain is psychogenic. Remember, the pain is not "in our minds" but caused by our minds. The physiological changes are real and may respond to traditional treatment methods. But you must accept you are treating the symptoms only, and not the root cause. Even if the pain does not return in that exact spot, TMS will find other ways to accomplish its goal. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 08:22:45
"OFTEN PEOPLE HAVE SURGERY FOR A SUBSTITUTE TMS MANIFESTATION. I HAD ANOTHER CALL FROM A WOMAN I HAD TREATED SUCCESSFULLY THREE YEARS EARLIER. A FEW MONTHS EARLIER SHE HAD BEGUN TO HAVE PAIN OVER THE POINT OF ONE OF HER SHOULDERS. SHE CONSULTED A NUMBER OF SHOULDER EXPERTS, HAD AN MRI THAT SHOWED A TORN ROTATOR CUFF, AND SURGERY WAS PERFORMED TO "REPAIR THE TEAR."
"SHE WAS RELIEVED OF THE PAIN, BUT WHEN SHE DEVELOPED PRECISELY THE SAME PAIN IN THE OPPOSITE SHOULDER A FEW WEEKS LATER, SHE BECAME SUSPICIOUS AND DECIDED TO CALL ME. I TOLD HER THE SHOULDER WAS A COMMON SITE FOR TMS TENDONITIS AND SUGGESTED AN EXAMINATION. AT HER APPOINTMENT A FEW DAYS LATER, SHE TOLD ME THAT THE PAIN HAD DISAPPEARED OVERNIGHT AFTER WE TALKED."
Page 168, "THE MINDBODY PRESCRIPTION", John E. Sarno, M.D.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 20:21:46
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
not focusing on it - just curious because i have a very analytic mind by nature and I like to understand the science behind everything. It does make sense though that it would provide a temporary relief of pain by reducing the inflammation in the area through "brute force" methods, but then of course TMS will win in the long run and come back again. Time will tell I suppose.
S...time will cure you regardless. Willingness to accept that you will feel better will speed it, I do believe.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| sdiddy |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 18:06:29
not focusing on it - just curious because i have a very analytic mind by nature and I like to understand the science behind everything. It does make sense though that it would provide a temporary relief of pain by reducing the inflammation in the area through "brute force" methods, but then of course TMS will win in the long run and come back again. Time will tell I suppose.
quote:
Originally posted by gailnyc
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
curious...back to the original topic of cortisone, when i did the shot i dont think it was placebo because i didnt even think it would work and was hesitant to do it. but within 5 minutes of the shot the doc told me to lift my arm and turn it in a way that would normally cause a ton of pain and the pain was gone! i guess it must be a very strong pain reliever or anti-inflammatory?
You're still focusing on the physical. I don't think you really believe you have TMS yet, not truly.
|
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 17:00:01
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
curious...back to the original topic of cortisone, when i did the shot i dont think it was placebo because i didnt even think it would work and was hesitant to do it. but within 5 minutes of the shot the doc told me to lift my arm and turn it in a way that would normally cause a ton of pain and the pain was gone! i guess it must be a very strong pain reliever or anti-inflammatory?
Caution: I'm not a doctor and don't even play one on the internet anymore.
I believe I understand that cortisone can also soothe inflammation, and hyper-tense muscles can become inflamed, which can cause the real pain that you feel. A shot into a muscle tamps down the inflammation...for good if it does not take on a TMS life of itself and temporarily if it does. Maybe a real doctor can chip in if I'm just remembering something that isn't.
This is not to be confused with so-called "inflammation" of the nerves of the spine, which, as DS says, has never been proven.
Do muscles get sore and inflamed? Yes, on an acute basis, and on a chronic basis if you become obsessed with it.
Either way, as Art said, you win, because the tears or stress on the muscles will heal if real and go away once you are willing to accept that it has a psychological component.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| gailnyc |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 15:30:13
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
curious...back to the original topic of cortisone, when i did the shot i dont think it was placebo because i didnt even think it would work and was hesitant to do it. but within 5 minutes of the shot the doc told me to lift my arm and turn it in a way that would normally cause a ton of pain and the pain was gone! i guess it must be a very strong pain reliever or anti-inflammatory?
You're still focusing on the physical. I don't think you really believe you have TMS yet, not truly. |
| sdiddy |
Posted - 05/16/2013 : 10:32:25
curious...back to the original topic of cortisone, when i did the shot i dont think it was placebo because i didnt even think it would work and was hesitant to do it. but within 5 minutes of the shot the doc told me to lift my arm and turn it in a way that would normally cause a ton of pain and the pain was gone! i guess it must be a very strong pain reliever or anti-inflammatory? |
| art |
Posted - 05/15/2013 : 11:14:22
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
when you say get on with your life, do you mean try to lift weights and play sports again? or just rest it and not worry about it? when i tried to play basketball months ago it hurt quite a bit during some of the movements.
UNtil you’re convinced it’s not physical, challenging pain that way is often not a good idea.
Stop doing the things that hurt you, and stay active as you can in ways that are pain free. Meanwhile, get your mind right (stop worrying/obsessing/wishing/bemoaning). IN other words, accept your pain in as genuine a way as you possibly can. If you do that, and it’s psychosomatic, I can virtually guarantee it will go away...
Otherwise, give it time to heal. |
| art |
Posted - 05/15/2013 : 11:10:17
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
I wouldnt say im hard on myself - but yes im a typical TMS personality type...very type A and very ocd, always planning ahead, always trying to do the right thing, always trying to be healthy, always putting pressure on myself to give my family the best life possible. but thats nothing new really.
But im very self aware of all that and the pressure to have kids. If I am self aware of it, dealing with it in a healthy manner, then why is the pain still there? does it just take more time?
I just WISH i knew for sure it was TMS. Then I wouldnt be worried at all and let the body work itself out. But every now and then the nagging fear comes back and says "what if its not? what if its a tear? what if you have to get surgery"? When that happens i immedietely squash it and breathe deep and say "its fine. its TMS. relax". But I still wish i knew for sure.
I can only say this: rotator cuff tears, as is pointed out in MBP, used to be blamed on bursitis and bone spurs. With modern imaging, doctors can now see tears in the muscles, many of which come from natural use or weekend jock activities, if you are not a pro athlete.
A very non-athletic woman friend of mine, who has had MB symptoms, recently went and had an MRI and the doctor said "rotator cuff tear" and suggested surgery. She said no way; she could live with it. She no longer has any pain. She had the WILLINGNESS to accept it. La Kevin in another post talks about his "ah-ha" moment, and the take I got on it was that he was willing to accept his situation; then the pain faded.
You know consciously you are generating stress about having children, and you know you have the type of personality that reacts in a way to foster TMS symptoms. Why not really try to go with it?
If you do have injury to the muscles of your rotator cuff, it is not a life altering thing unless you are a major league pitcher. It will heal, real or psychogenic, no? But not when the OCD mind is focused on it.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"
back2-it:
I couldn’t agree more. That’s the key right there. TO STOP WORRYING ABOUT It. If it’s real, it will heal. If it’s not, then the pain will disappear. You can’t lose...BUt driving yourself nuts as to which it is, will do not good at best, and will hurt if it’s actually psychosomatic..
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 16:15:28
There's a lot of things you can do that don't require using your shoulder. I like running in the water because of the total body resistance. Or find a swim-stroke that doesn't irritate you. |
| sdiddy |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 11:57:56
when you say get on with your life, do you mean try to lift weights and play sports again? or just rest it and not worry about it? when i tried to play basketball months ago it hurt quite a bit during some of the movements. |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 11:46:53
Speaking of Edna St. Vincent Millay, one of my favorite poems:
My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends—
It gives a lovely light |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 11:37:50
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
...the wierd thing is, for the last month, i TRULY have accepted that this IS TMS, but still havent seen much results.
...but its just wierd that the pain still stays deep in there. i want to release it so bad.
...DO you guys think it simple has not been enough time (1 month)?
Your conscious mind has accepted TMS BUT not your subconscious one. "The heart is slow to learn what the quick mind sees at every turn", or something like that, Edna St. Vincent Millay from Dr. Sarno's books.
The more you try to "release" it the better job it's doing as a distraction.
My shoulders took months, the first one maybe six or more. In TMS time a month is nothing, it perhaps took your MINDBODY your entire life and maybe some womb time to develop your TMS symptom creating thought patterns. Tracking your progress is called "callendering" and counterproductive to healing. Go out there and lead what SteveO calls a "dynamic" life and forged aboud id.
tt/lsmft
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 11:20:48
quote:
I wouldnt say im hard on myself - but yes im a typical TMS personality type...very type A and very ocd, always planning ahead, always trying to do the right thing, always trying to be healthy, always putting pressure on myself to give my family the best life possible. but thats nothing new really.
It might not be anything new to you, but (according to some) just knowing and being aware of one's "strains" in life is NOT enough to cure TMS. As Ace1 had said (have you read his "keys to healing"? at http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7765) you cannot fix a strain (your TMS) with another strain. You might temporarily get rid of one TMS symptom, but unless there are more fundamental changes, then another TMS symptom will invariably crop up.
Or, as la_kevin put it: "Read your OWN posts over and over. Does this sound like someone who would have a smooth running Autonomic Nervous System? Does your bodily pain match your thought process? Yes it does." For more of la_kevin:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8487
RSR |
| sdiddy |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 11:07:18
the wierd thing is, for the last month, i TRULY have accepted that this IS TMS, but still havent seen much results. regarding the having children thing, I believe I am also dealing with that in as healthy way as possible, while still having a normal amount of stress about it. Not beating myself up or feeling tense...im actually quite relaxed for most of my days, but yes i do spend a lot of time thinking and planning out our lives for my family to give them a good life.
but its just wierd that the pain still stays deep in there. i want to release it so bad. its deeeeep in the side of the shoulder (rotator). I try not to touch it anymore, but if i do massage in there, it is VERY tender.
DO you guys think it simple has not been enough time (1 month)? Do you think instead of babying the shoulder like I am doing now, I should push through and try to play sports again? Or will this simply make it much worse? I tried swinging a golf club yesterday (first time in a year), and it hurt my shoulder. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 07:09:27
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
I just WISH i knew for sure it was TMS. Then I wouldnt be worried at all and let the body work itself out. But every now and then the nagging fear comes back and says "what if its not? what if its a tear? what if you have to get surgery"? When that happens i immedietely squash it and breathe deep and say "its fine. its TMS. relax". But I still wish i knew for sure.
I can't talk for you. but I know for sure MY two instances of shoulder pain are now 100% CURED & Gone, and both had emotional components going concurrently. I detailed them in my earlier posts. If you didn't suffer a traumatic injury like falling off a roof, and you just woke up one day with it, it's LIKELY TMS.
Think PSYCHOLOGICAL when you feel the pain. When you lower the TMS tension level in your reservoir of rage, lessening your stress level, one morning you will wake up and it will be gone--on to the next problem--or have a bottle of wine and celebrate.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
|
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/14/2013 : 06:36:21
quote:
Originally posted by sdiddy
I wouldnt say im hard on myself - but yes im a typical TMS personality type...very type A and very ocd, always planning ahead, always trying to do the right thing, always trying to be healthy, always putting pressure on myself to give my family the best life possible. but thats nothing new really.
But im very self aware of all that and the pressure to have kids. If I am self aware of it, dealing with it in a healthy manner, then why is the pain still there? does it just take more time?
I just WISH i knew for sure it was TMS. Then I wouldnt be worried at all and let the body work itself out. But every now and then the nagging fear comes back and says "what if its not? what if its a tear? what if you have to get surgery"? When that happens i immedietely squash it and breathe deep and say "its fine. its TMS. relax". But I still wish i knew for sure.
I can only say this: rotator cuff tears, as is pointed out in MBP, used to be blamed on bursitis and bone spurs. With modern imaging, doctors can now see tears in the muscles, many of which come from natural use or weekend jock activities, if you are not a pro athlete.
A very non-athletic woman friend of mine, who has had MB symptoms, recently went and had an MRI and the doctor said "rotator cuff tear" and suggested surgery. She said no way; she could live with it. She no longer has any pain. She had the WILLINGNESS to accept it. La Kevin in another post talks about his "ah-ha" moment, and the take I got on it was that he was willing to accept his situation; then the pain faded.
You know consciously you are generating stress about having children, and you know you have the type of personality that reacts in a way to foster TMS symptoms. Why not really try to go with it?
If you do have injury to the muscles of your rotator cuff, it is not a life altering thing unless you are a major league pitcher. It will heal, real or psychogenic, no? But not when the OCD mind is focused on it.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| sdiddy |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 21:51:16
I wouldnt say im hard on myself - but yes im a typical TMS personality type...very type A and very ocd, always planning ahead, always trying to do the right thing, always trying to be healthy, always putting pressure on myself to give my family the best life possible. but thats nothing new really.
But im very self aware of all that and the pressure to have kids. If I am self aware of it, dealing with it in a healthy manner, then why is the pain still there? does it just take more time?
I just WISH i knew for sure it was TMS. Then I wouldnt be worried at all and let the body work itself out. But every now and then the nagging fear comes back and says "what if its not? what if its a tear? what if you have to get surgery"? When that happens i immedietely squash it and breathe deep and say "its fine. its TMS. relax". But I still wish i knew for sure. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 20:35:48
s...
Somewhere in either HBP or MBP, Dr. Sarno mentions that those who get shots of cortisone often have their symptoms disappear for a time. He did not know why.
I'll bet if you reach around and feel your trap muscle and deltoid and maybe some of the other muscles that surround the rotator cuff, you will find that they are hypertonic. I'll bet your trap especially. This is the muscle that reacts the quickest to anxiety and stress in many, many people and it can refer pain all over the place, not just down your arm, etc..
From what you say about your debate on whether or not to have children, I will bet that even though the pressure from your wife and in-laws are not there, the pressure is put there by you to "do the right thing" and fulfill the role expected of you by society and others and yourself. If this is the case, knowing this can certainly help. Are you hard on yourself. Are you turning the screws on yourself?
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| sdiddy |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 16:48:58
hi tennis tom...
1. we got married because it was love at first site and I adored her. never a doubt and 12 years after mtg, still none. it was about us and our love and balance....not about kids. we love being with each other, eating good food, traveling the world, etc. we werent ready for kids and still probably arent, but its getting to that age for us.
2. no she isnt pressuring...its more family and societal pressures. both are parents are asian and traditional and they are used to having a lot of kids and at a much younger age. but to be honest, they arent abrasively pressuring....its really moreso myself saying to me "you need to grow up and make up your mind and get going with it or it will be too late". its just scary...such an enormous life change. suddenly, picking up and going somewhere for a weekend trip is no longer an option...even picking up and going to dinner. it becomes all about the babies. its just scary.
I have been doing an exercise i used to do a lot when my back was hurt which is body relaxation, breathing, being aware of my stresses, facing them, and also imagining the blood "flowing" to that part of my body. it helped a lot with my back and cured me much more easily than this shoulder thing. in fact just yesterday i was jumping out of a chair and slipped a bit on the kitchen floor, and my body went one way and my arm the other, and the shooting pain that went through my shoulder was excruciating. it made me feel weak and scared.
thanks hope this clarifies some things. |
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