| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| electraglideman |
Posted - 05/08/2013 : 22:06:25
I thought this was an interesting article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/07/antibiotics-cure-back-pain-patients |
| 8 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dr James Alexander |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 03:32:01
I've penned a more detailed comment on this research if anyone is interested in reading it on my webpage:-
http://drjamespsychologist-com.webs.com/apps/blog/
or on my Facebook page (Dr James Alexander)
James |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 13:47:45
Yes, TT, that was all the stuff about taking antibiotics to kill H-Pylori. How ridiculous! I believe there is no credible research that supports the idea that H-Pylori is harmful in any way. But the regimen to kill H-Pylori will really do a number on your intestines and stomach. Just like Big Pharma - make the cure much worse than the disease.
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| chickenbone |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 13:28:08
Yea, and antibiotics can also make one very tired and act like a tranquilizer. It seems to me that just because an antibiotic worked to improve a back pain problem, this does not prove in any way that there was actually a bacterial infection present. There are lots of other antibiotic effects besides killing bacteria that could account for this. I would also be very interested in who funded this study, perhaps Big Pharma? What better way to shore up the dwindling sales of antibiotics than to promote some highly questionable research. Ok so you have back pain? Let's prescribe antibiotics! Might as well give it a shot. Lots more sales for the drug companies. I don't know about the rest of you, but I no longer trust Big Pharma. I am in no way saying that all drugs are bad. But they they have pulled so much crap on the public over the years.
The thing I dislike about taking drugs for anything other than a serious, specific, condition, is that drugs often apparently help one part of your body while applying a wrecking ball to several other parts. So you don't really end up ahead of the game. For example, we now know that the anti stomach acid drugs and most psychotropic drugs are a large contributor to the literal epidemic of osteoporosis we are now seeing, even in younger women.
Good post, Dr. Alexander. I too would like to know much more about this study. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 12:56:58
Offhand, reminds me of the study a few years back that bacteria caused ulcers and not TMS stress, haven't heard much about that one since. It appears now that the white-coats are running out of "scientific" answers for chronic pain, and Dr. Sarno's TMS theory is beginning to get a small foot-hold in the public eye--we have another "break-through"--bacteria. It's always convenient to blame stuff on things the naked eye can't see. If most back-pain IS TMS, and you do the new prescribed antibiotics regimen, getting a placebo cure--then it's onto the next socially acceptable pain epidemic site.
Just sayin'
tt/lsmft |
| alix |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 09:57:27
Here is the abstract of the original article:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00586-013-2675-y
It looks like it is a proper study.
Antibiotics do have anti-inflammatory properties as well, so I wonder to what extent that is responsible for the improvement.
There is a good analysis by the NHS:
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/05May/Pages/Antibiotics-may-help-ease-chronic-back-pain.aspx |
| Dr James Alexander |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 06:17:37
i'd want to read the original research rather than take it for granted that the reporting is accurate. eg. the report both claims that 80% of people with chronic bp could be cured with antibiotics, and it also claims that 20-40% of people could be cured. These are wildly different figures. Health journalists dont always get it right. I also presume that the researchers controlled for a placebo effect in double blind randomised controlled studies, but there is no mention of this in the article- surely they did, so as to be able to go public with the results?
It has long been recognised that there can be many causes of chronic back pain, eg. undetected cancers, as well as infections. While undetected cancer is relatively rare, no one knows (or claims to know) what proportion of the chronic pain population suffers from TMS. Only a very small proportion of the chronic pain population ever hears about TMS- of those, only a minority will actually run with the ideas. Of that small proportion, many will get better. But what proportion of the chronic pain population suffers from undetected bacterial infection? No one knows (perhaps until now, as per this article). I'd say if a biological cause is found for 20-40%, fantastic- especially if it can be easily treated. For the remaining 60-80% who may not have such an infection, antibiotics may come to be used on them anyway, and a certain portion will get better via a placebo effect. Then, once the back pain has been "cured" by antibiotics, it is likely that the person for whom pain was generated in order to protect them from unconscious material, their mind/brain will come up with a different symptom to satisfy the same psychological need- perhaps not a pain symptom, but there are many other body systems to choose from. The same need is likely to be met by alternative symptoms. The history of psychology and medicine is littered with examples of epidemics which come and go for no apparent reason- trends in ill-health. The syndromes and associated symptoms change with time, but the underlying psychological causes for many people (not all) will remain the same, as human nature does not change with each trend. In Freud's day, 'hysterical paralysis' was a common disorder- not so now. During WWI, trauma manifested with very different symptoms to what are apparent now- but the experience of trauma is the same. Who knows what TMS will morph into in the future (for whatever proportion of the population are susceptible to it)?
James |
| gigalos |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 03:14:08
very interesting and confusing...
this spells the end for the already little amount of effective antibiotics that we have left...  |
| la_kevin |
Posted - 05/09/2013 : 02:49:46
quote:
Originally posted by electraglideman
I thought this was an interesting article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/07/antibiotics-cure-back-pain-patients
This article was actually why I came back to this forum after all this time. I wanted to know what people thought. I think I posted or commented on this about 4 years ago here when they were early in the research.
I myself know FULLY that I have/had TMS. It's no question for me. Symptoms, sensations, locations, parts of my body ALWAYS changing and pain always shifting...not a 'bacteria'.
However that doesn't stop the possibility that even what has been described as TMS could be this bacteria. If their study proves it, then a course of antibiotics SHOULD be ruled out and being a TMS purist or insistent on this could be detrimental.
The article says people with herniated discs AND Vertebral damage are at risk but that's very confusing.
Maybe TMS can only be ruled when and ONLY when there are no anomalies on a MRI seen? And does this spread throughout the spinal column into other places?
So many things to think of here.
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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon
"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me |
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