| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| indiana |
Posted - 04/28/2013 : 23:06:04
Recently I have looked into my past which has given me a lot of hurt and which I believe has been the cause of my anxiety and low self esteem and pain (TMS) for many years. I seem to remember more and more episodes from my childhood which - since I cannot forget them - seem to be the key and thinking about them makes me still quite mad.
My family was catholic and we were (of course) seven children. I question whether they were all welcome. My mother could not cope and her children had to suffer. When I was 18 all I wanted was get away from home which I did. Later on in life I had a good relationship with my mother but it was sort of superficial and of course we never spoke of my childhood and I think I had forgiven her. My mother has been dead for 10 years.
Now I realise I have not forgiven her at all and maybe never will.
Logically I can see that she had very difficult circumstances. No money, helping my father to keep his business, seven children to take care of. Herself having a very tough upbringing. She did her best and all that. Then my inner voice says "you can still love your
child despite of that". I feel she did not love or care for me, nor appreciate or respect me. My sisters have similar issues and are very nervous people. One brother was very mad all his life. He died of a heart attack - quite young.
I feel my inner child is so hurt by the damage my mother has done that I just cannot ignore it this time. Forgiving my mother would be like a betrayal of my inner child. I will go into therapi soon
but I don't know if talking about will help forgiving. What would help would be my mother saying I am sorry but that is not possible. I suppose my TMS will never get better unless a forgive.
Has anyone some ideas how to go from here?
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| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dr. Zafirides |
Posted - 05/06/2013 : 10:22:24
Indiana,
I had done a podcast on Forgiveness several months back:
http://www.thehealthymind.com/2012/10/24/forgiveness-the-key-to-healing-our-pain/
I only offer it because I received more positive emails on this episode than most I usually do.
I hope in some small way, it can be of help to you.
Don't be so critical on yourself about how you "should" be able to forgive yourself. Your pace is your pace. It will come when you are ready.
You will get there.
-Dr. Z |
| indiana |
Posted - 05/01/2013 : 01:29:21
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
quote:
Originally posted by indiana
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
Im not sure one has to forgive butb rather find a way to defuse the power the anger has over oneself. I dont think these are one and the same.
Interesting point. Yes the anger has too much power over me at the moment. I hope after having had therapi and working on myself too
I will be able to overcome my anger. I might not forget what my mother did but just coming to terms with it would be a relief.
Is part of the problem that you feel guilty about being angry/not being able to forgive?
I don't thinks so. I would like to forgive and let go to get rid of my anxiety/anger/depression/tms but apparently it does not works that way. At the moment I think my mother does not deserve forgiveness. It sounds childish and harsh (she has been dead for 10 years) but for the first time in my life I let myself feel what I feel. My upbringing has had a huge impact on my life (and on my own family which I feel guilty about). There is no doubt in my mind that all my problems started in my upbringing. Seeing the connections and working on myself I hope to get some closure sometimes.
I got some inspirational replies (and tools) to my threat of what I could do to forgive and I have become a lot wiser. F.eks. that I am not ready yet to forgive and that it cannot be forced. |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 16:07:06
quote:
Originally posted by indiana
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
Im not sure one has to forgive butb rather find a way to defuse the power the anger has over oneself. I dont think these are one and the same.
Interesting point. Yes the anger has too much power over me at the moment. I hope after having had therapi and working on myself too
I will be able to overcome my anger. I might not forget what my mother did but just coming to terms with it would be a relief.
Is part of the problem that you feel guilty about being angry/not being able to forgive? |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 06:58:11
quote:
Originally posted by indiana
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
Dear Indiana (Jones?)
Forgiving is done for you and not for the person who hurt you. I was raised Catholic as well, and even went to a Catholic university where the Jesuits tried their best to pound the theology into me. I did very well, can even quote chapter and verse as well as some Protestant brothers, but I failed to comprehend one of the most famous phrases Jesus Christ spoke from the cross. Those words were, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."
Think of those words. Meditate on them. They know not what they do. Understanding that can remove the hurt from being personal. They know not what they do. How, then, can you hold that against a person? They knew no better.
My mother got caught up in causes and, I thought, neglected us, wanting to save the world. She was reacting to her family dynamic. I was consciously angry about that. Years later, I think it affected me whenever I felt that I was not being soothed or consoled or various needs were not being met, and I reacted unconsciously to it.
"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."
I meditate on this before I go to sleep, because long held rage does not release overnight, but with time.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"
Thank you. I will try to say those words and hopefully one day I will have a better understanding towards my mother. At the moment I feel like a rebellious teenager which is a bit ridiculous at my age but I think it is better to let it all out for the moment. If I could forgive it would do me a lot of good I know.
Just a note beside the point
I think the catholic church has done a lot of damage to a lot of people (still does) specially families. My mother was brainwashed into behaving in a certain way by threats (litterally "if you do this it is a sin and you will go to hell") and passed it on to her children. One example is also not being allowed to use contraceptives (at that time)and having to have a lot of children (no matter of the burden this put on the families). I am also thinking of these poor irish single mums in the 50ties who were forced to give up their children for adoption and then were abused and used for years in catholic convents. After the child abuse cases in recent years I just about had enough and I left the catholic church.
Again, it is not the Catholic Church per se, but your reaction to it within your mother's experience. You will find the same "religiosity" within many religions, and you will find child abuse within many religious and secular institutions, and certainly within families. The Catholic Church, like any other institution, is made up of people, good and bad. The words of Jesus Christ still apply, "Forgive them...for they know not what they do."
All the major religions include forgiveness in one way or another, not for the accused or guilty, but for the person who cannot let it go. Those who abuse will answer, one way or another.
I used to think that people had to ask for forgiveness, but that is an impossible consideration: you and I can can not make that happen, so why torture oneself waiting for the impossible?
When we were children, we did not hold on and ruminate about wrongs. We either took action or retreated, but the wrong was soon forgotten. Your "inner child" wants to be happy. Free it of the yoke of your mother's actions. Only you can do that. Think as a child; act as an adult. Not easy, I know.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| indiana |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 02:13:19
To Wavy Soul
Thanks for your book recommendation
Indiana
(I am unable to reply with quote) |
| indiana |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 02:09:30
quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
After some huge betrayals and traumas I went to the Radical Forgiveness seminars several times with Colin TIpping in Atlanta. He has a book of the same name. He combines really feeling your feelings with getting to another meaning of the story.
I recommend the book, Radical Forgiveness but it doesn't fully represent his actual work of giving days of opportunity to acknowledge and have your deepest hurt and anger heard, not just layering some sugary "forgiveness" beliefs on top and creating deeper rage reservoirs.
Thanks Wavy Soul for the recommendation
Love is the answer, whatever the question
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| indiana |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 02:06:39
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
Im not sure one has to forgive butb rather find a way to defuse the power the anger has over oneself. I dont think these are one and the same.
Interesting point. Yes the anger has too much power over me at the moment. I hope after having had therapi and working on myself too
I will be able to overcome my anger. I might not forget what my mother did but just coming to terms with it would be a relief. |
| indiana |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 01:59:09
quote:
Originally posted by marsha
Forgiveness for me is letting go. It has nothing to do with saying what your mother did was ok.
Let go, you can't change what happened and holding on just hurts You
Good luck
Maraha
Unfortunately that is what I cannot do even though I know that I cannot change a thing. That is why I am asking for advice. |
| indiana |
Posted - 04/30/2013 : 01:55:39
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
Dear Indiana (Jones?)
Forgiving is done for you and not for the person who hurt you. I was raised Catholic as well, and even went to a Catholic university where the Jesuits tried their best to pound the theology into me. I did very well, can even quote chapter and verse as well as some Protestant brothers, but I failed to comprehend one of the most famous phrases Jesus Christ spoke from the cross. Those words were, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."
Think of those words. Meditate on them. They know not what they do. Understanding that can remove the hurt from being personal. They know not what they do. How, then, can you hold that against a person? They knew no better.
My mother got caught up in causes and, I thought, neglected us, wanting to save the world. She was reacting to her family dynamic. I was consciously angry about that. Years later, I think it affected me whenever I felt that I was not being soothed or consoled or various needs were not being met, and I reacted unconsciously to it.
"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."
I meditate on this before I go to sleep, because long held rage does not release overnight, but with time.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"
Thank you. I will try to say those words and hopefully one day I will have a better understanding towards my mother. At the moment I feel like a rebellious teenager which is a bit ridiculous at my age but I think it is better to let it all out for the moment. If I could forgive it would do me a lot of good I know.
Just a note beside the point
I think the catholic church has done a lot of damage to a lot of people (still does) specially families. My mother was brainwashed into behaving in a certain way by threats (litterally "if you do this it is a sin and you will go to hell") and passed it on to her children. One example is also not being allowed to use contraceptives (at that time)and having to have a lot of children (no matter of the burden this put on the families). I am also thinking of these poor irish single mums in the 50ties who were forced to give up their children for adoption and then were abused and used for years in catholic convents. After the child abuse cases in recent years I just about had enough and I left the catholic church. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 22:01:47
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Back to it,
I really like your advice and the mediation of Jesus' verse to forgive them for to know not what they do. This is a fabulous way for someone to help overcome their anger. Thanks
Thanks, but I cannot take credit. It belongs to a higher power and the writings of Eckhart Tolle. But it is so true. Does any mother in her right mind mean to hurt her child, even if it seems benign or less than life threatening to the child. No. Applying it personally removes the personal, though. Odd.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 19:54:17
Back to it,
I really like your advice and the mediation of Jesus' verse to forgive them for to know not what they do. This is a fabulous way for someone to help overcome their anger. Thanks |
| Wavy Soul |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 18:15:52
After some huge betrayals and traumas I went to the Radical Forgiveness seminars several times with Colin TIpping in Atlanta. He has a book of the same name. He combines really feeling your feelings with getting to another meaning of the story.
I recommend the book, Radical Forgiveness but it doesn't fully represent his actual work of giving days of opportunity to acknowledge and have your deepest hurt and anger heard, not just layering some sugary "forgiveness" beliefs on top and creating deeper rage reservoirs.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 17:20:20
Im not sure one has to forgive butb rather find a way to defuse the power the anger has over oneself. I dont think these are one and the same. |
| marsha |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 12:39:20
Forgiveness for me is letting go. It has nothing to do with saying what your mother did was ok.
Let go, you can't change what happened and holding on just hurts You
Good luck
Maraha |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 11:49:56
Dear Indiana (Jones?)
Forgiving is done for you and not for the person who hurt you. I was raised Catholic as well, and even went to a Catholic university where the Jesuits tried their best to pound the theology into me. I did very well, can even quote chapter and verse as well as some Protestant brothers, but I failed to comprehend one of the most famous phrases Jesus Christ spoke from the cross. Those words were, "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."
Think of those words. Meditate on them. They know not what they do. Understanding that can remove the hurt from being personal. They know not what they do. How, then, can you hold that against a person? They knew no better.
My mother got caught up in causes and, I thought, neglected us, wanting to save the world. She was reacting to her family dynamic. I was consciously angry about that. Years later, I think it affected me whenever I felt that I was not being soothed or consoled or various needs were not being met, and I reacted unconsciously to it.
"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."
I meditate on this before I go to sleep, because long held rage does not release overnight, but with time.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| indiana |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 08:47:45
Thank you RogeSootheRatio for the inteesting article on forgiveness.
I have in recent years made many attemps to forgive because that was what i "ought" to do(to be a nice person). I thought this would help me overcome my anxiety/fear/depression. I realize now that I first have to deal with my repressed emotions (I have read so much about them). I now intend to let myself feel them, get angry or sad or whatever. For as long as it takes.
As it said in the article forgiveness cannot be forced. If I will ever be able to forgive, a lot of things will have to happen with me. Maybe therapi can help me but I am not having it in order to be able to forgive but for my own sake. I really wish I could forgive and let go but it is not that easy. Hopefully I will not feel guilty if I am not able to forgive ever. |
| RageSootheRatio |
Posted - 04/29/2013 : 06:21:06
Hi Indiana,
Just have time for a quick reply at the moment. I'm sure you'll get differing ideas, but I personally like the ideas of Pete Walker, on forgiveness:
"Real forgiveness is quite distinct from premature forgiveness. It is almost always a byproduct of effective grieving and no amount of thought, intention or belief can bring it into being without a descension into the feeling realms. ...
When forgiveness has substance, it is felt palpably in the heart ... "
Here's a link to the whole article:
http://www.pete-walker.com/forgiveness.htm
Hope this is helpful to you. I'm sorry your inner child feels so hurt right now.
~RSR
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