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Screensize: 640 x 480 800 x 600 1024 x 768 1280 x 1024 UserName: Password: Format Mode: Basic  Help  Prompt  Format: Font Andale Mono Arial Arial Black Book Antiqua Century Gothic Comic Sans MS Courier New Georgia Impact Lucida Console Script MT Bold Stencil Tahoma Times New Roman Trebuchet MS Verdana   Size 1 2 3 4 5 6   Color Black Red Yellow Pink Green Orange Purple Blue Beige Brown Teal Navy Maroon LimeGreen Message: * HTML is OFF * Forum Code is ON Smilies [quote][i]Originally posted by Sylvia[/i] [br]quote:Originally posted by Sylvia Time to get MAD instead of self-pitying (especially if the collapse comes) let it come, I'll keep going anyways. The fact that you still believe a "collapse" may come means you have not really committed 100% to the diagnosis. I know that you believe you have, but you still live in a state of fear, and that fear itself provides the distraction. Essentially you are letting TMS win this battle. It is not as if you can abolish the fear overnight, but you need to try your best to act as if you do not have that fear. When you find yourself worrying about the "collapse" that may come, instead try to convince yourself that it will not come because you will not let it. If the symptoms escalate you will simply accept it as a benign signal to address your emotional health. So, I believe you are on the right track when you say "time to get MAD instead of self-pitying." You will not get anywhere if you continue to bask in negative thoughts and allow the symptoms to feed your fears. Getting MAD at the symptoms is not a bad technique. At the same time force yourself to think about what is going on in your life that may be leading you to repress negative feelings. Try to discover what those feelings might be. And "tell your brain" you are going to think about those feelings despite its attempts to distract you from them. You need to find a way to recondition your thoughts and behavior in reaction to the symptoms. What you have been doing is not working if you still fear a "collapse" and pity yourself. Try something different. Hi Mala. Variation in location and severity of symptoms is a hallmark of TMS. You've been at this a long time, and it seems you have a solid understanding and acceptance of your TMS, yet from time to time the symptoms still have tremendous power over you. I beleive this is typical for many TMS sufferers. We are highly susceptible to recurrences and must always be ready to fight. The other day as I was bending over I had a very sharp pain in a part of my back where I had never really felt pain before. I believe the initial reaction to the pain is critical. In the past I might have gotten concerned, focused on it, taken Advil immediately, and hope it does not get worse. Now, I simply say to myself, "Hmm... this is interesting. I wonder what I might be repressing?" I laugh and say "nice try, TMS, but it's not going to work." I go about my day. The pain continues but I don't pay any attention to it. When I'm aware of it I think about what might be bothering me that I'm not dealing with. By afternoon the pain was gone. Even now I have a slight pain in my neck. It is uncomfortable but I know it is nothing to worry about. Just another manifestation of some emotional baggage. I go over events of the past couple of days, conversations with my loved ones, stuff going on at work that may be troubling me, etc. I know that the neck pain will fade on its own. My point is, many TMS sufferers have to deal with this for the rest of their lives. Some will tell you that if you are not "pain free" then it must not be TMS, or Dr. Sarno's treatment doesn't work. That is a cop out. It works not because it eliminates the pain forever, but because it eliminates the power of the pain to control your thoughts and behaviors. It is not easy to get through these episodes. I can only tell you that as time goes on, they happen less often, are of lower intensity, and shorter duration. Perhaps one day I will be 100% free of these episodes, but I doubt it. In any case, it does not matter. The pain has no effect on my ability to live my life the way that I want to. And IMO, that is a more important goal than eliminating the pain completely (which may be difficult if not impossible). What is the pain trying to tell you? That is completely up to you to try to figure out. Try your best. You will never know if you are right, but it is the trying that counts. quote:Originally posted by malaI don't have any issues with the first two but I wonder about the time frame concept. If I remember correctly dr. Sarno in HBP says we shouldn't put time frame on recovery but does say that it takes between 3 to six months or something like that. My biggest criticism of Dr. Sarno's books is that he makes it sound as if a majority of people recover very quickly. This is not my experience, nor that of many who post on this forum. I believe planting this idea makes it likely for people to get frustrated when relief does not come quickly enough. In my opinion, the most important aspect of treating TMS is to learn to accept that the pain is benign and to ignore it. Monitoring one's progress and putting a timetable on "recovery" implies that we are paying attention to the symptoms which is the exact opposite of what we are supposed to do. This is why I feel it is essential to take a long-term view of recovery and not allow lack of progress or day-to-day fluctuations in pain levels shake our confidence. In fact, many people get worse before they get better, as our unconscious mind fights back and tries to shake our confidence. It is relatively easy to acquire the belief that our pain is benign and can be safely ignored. It is much more difficult to wire it into our unconscious so that our thoughts and actions are consistent with this belief. This is not a process over which we have any real control. Some might get there in a few weeks, others in a few years. However long it takes, the key is that it is a life-long change in how we think about and react to the symptoms. quote:Surely one cannot go on indefinitely without seeing recovery not just a little bit of recovery but say at least 80 to 90 percent to justify some sort of success. What exactly is "80 or 90 percent?" How do you quantify recovery? How do you monitor it? How do you assess your progress? To me, it is irrelevant and counterproductive. I don't pay enough attention to the pain to know when I am at "80% recovery." I consider my treatment to be successful because the pain has no power to affect my life in the ways that it used to. I no longer run to the chiropractor when my back is stiff. I no longer fear I have carpal tunnel syndrome when I feel some tingling in my fingers. I no longer fear that a minor bout of lower back pain will escalate into the debilitating spasms that used to plague me. quote:At what point do you say OK this is not working Everyone is different and has a unique journey. For whatever reason you are unable to truly stop focusing on the symptoms. The TMS concept has not sunken into your unconscious. There is still quite a bit of doubt in your mind; fear that maybe it is not TMS after all and there is truly something physically wrong that needs to be addressed. The pain has escalated despite all your attempts. I know it is frustrating and I have been there. It took years before I had lasting relief. This only came after I truly accepted that all of my symptoms were benign, and banished the fear. I still had pretty severe lower back pain on a regular basis despite the fact that I truly accepted that it was nothing to be concerned about. It is very difficult to get through those times, but if you do, you will be rewarded. Dr. Sarno would count you among the few who cannot recover from TMS without unlocking the potential sources of unconscious rage through psychotherapy. He would prescribe Freudian psychotherapy for you. While it may be difficult to find someone familiar with TMS, perhaps you can find a psychoanalyst who can help. Otherwise I'm afraid you will continue to be locked in this vicious cycle where you are unable to make the true leap that is required to gain relief. These things that infuriate you on a conscious level, try to dig deeper and figure out what it is about the child inside you that is in a blind rage about it. Yes, it is true that you are hurt because your husband seemed to not listen to you, but what is it about your personality that makes you so sensitive to that? It is not uncommon at all that people that we love dearly cause a great deal of unconscious rage. The physical symptoms present themselves so that we can focus on them, instead of accepting and exploring those "dangerous" feelings that we would never want to admit are there. Originally posted by la_kevin As a side effect I have been pain free pretty much for a week. Don't be so certain it is just a "side effect". The #1 task in treating TMS is learning to ignore the pain. The #2 task is resuming physical activity despite the pain. The #3 task is to explore the underlying psychological reasons for the pain. Many people get so consumed with #3 they sink into a never-ending search, compulsively seeking "the answer" that they feel will miraculously stop the pain. In effect, #3 can become a distraction. An equivalent of the pain. A symptom in and of itself. I believe it is most important to do #1 and #2, and to do your best at #3 but not become so consumed with it. Eventually #3 should come naturally. As the pain becomes less of a distraction, when you become aware of it you naturally suspect the origin is psychological, and think about the potential cause. This shift in thought becomes a conditioned response. So, I think you are on the right track with the "I don't care" attitude. We can't control the pain, the best we can do is learn to ignore it. And that in and of itself disarms it. Over time it fades. But most importantly, it loses its grasp on you. Nothing like a good old fashioned debate sparked by an old member coming back to dispute Dr. Sarno's theory, only to get personally offended and leave again. Reminds me of the good old days of this forum I haven't read this thread in detail (the title alone was an indication that it was not worth my time) but it is interesting to see the same patterns emerging over and over on this forum. Many people overcomplicate things when it comes to TMS. Those who don't get results are quick to dismiss the theory entirely and come up with alternate ideas. In effect they blame Dr. Sarno for their lack of results. Time will tell if Hillbilly has really found his "cure." I hope so. But scientific overanalysis is not very useful in recovering from TMS. None of the details of Dr. Sarno's theory really matter. Much of it can be viewed metaphorically. Is there really a "pool of unconscious rage"? Is our brain really trying to "distract" us? Is the mechanism simply "oxygen deprivation"? Who knows. Dr. Sarno's theory is something that makes sense to us, something we can relate to, something we can understand. But just as modern medicine is naive to assume that real physical symptoms cannot be caused by psychological factors, it would be naive to assume that Dr. Sarno has all the answers about the TMS process. Humans really have no clue about how the brain works. 99% of it remains a total mystery. The exact mechanisms behind TMS may be far beyond our comprehension. The important thing is that we acquire the knowledge to accept that our symptoms are psychogenic, and then the courage to recondition the way we think about them and react to them. Everybody is different; what works for one may not work for someone else. Understanding the scientific details of how TMS works is not important. The fact is, we will never know in our lifetimes if the details of Dr. Sarno's theory are accurate. But what we do know is that tens of thousands of patients have been helped by following his treatment suggestions. Those suggestions primarily serve to recondition us -- to take away the power that the symptoms hold over us -- to disarm the fear and allow us to get back to leading normal lives without obsessing over the symptoms or searching endlessly for a medical diagnosis and "cure." Maybe Hillbilly found "his" answer, but it is quite arrogant to think that it is "the" answer. I do not believe there is such a thing. much much more to come... [/quote]   Check here to include your profile signature.