| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| RikR |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 08:39:30
I was going through older posts this morning and found a post by Dave: “The child inside you is in a blind rage due to the pressures you have chosen to put on yourself”
I can certainly see how this fits my life. I never felt quite well so everything was a push. In fact even now that I am severely compromised I had an offer again to write for a couple of major magazines so I got back into it.
I have been doing story research and outlines for the past three weeks...then looking at all the hoops publishing requires and I had to stop myself and ask “WHY”? I don’t need money but I do need distractions....then I started looking at the pressures or as Ace says “strain”.
Carefully crafting each sentence and wanting to get it right for editor and reader approval, meeting deadlines with long lead times – working with article product providers time lines....IS THIS WHAT A WOUNDED CHILD WOULD WANT???
I feel like my child is in a rage – too many years of college, totally Type A, captain of industry and the answer man for everyone....oh and then there was the 20 year career of fixing broken people, which obscured my own inner damage.
I would love to hear about how anyone else has soothed their inner child when he/she is in constant fits of rage and causing severe and disabling physical symptoms. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 16:44:23
Thanks Eric. |
| eric watson |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 16:26:10
man tom -you really on a roll, thats some true ***** |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 09:30:39
Look this TMS **** is pretty easy, it's your unconscious gremlin that complicates it for you because it's trying to protect you from painful emotions that it thinks you don't have the balls to deal with.
Sarno doesn't complicate it, people do. He doesn't care what you call it, he's changed the name of it several times as his theory evolved to include more psychosomatic dis-eases in his dx's.
He's not dogmatic at all about it, he says it covers about 80% of what ails man and can target most any part of the body where there is blood flow and nerve endings to transit pain to from the brain.
The pain originates in the brain's subconscious and picks a spot that you and your buddies, family, co-workers, boss, government, will buy into, discuss, treat with Walgreens, docs or shamans, to distract you from the real life issues that can be easily discovered on the Rahe-Holmes list.
At one time it was ulcers until they were found out to be stress/emotional. So, ulcers as a culturally acceptable symptom went out of favor replaced by a new crop of symps: backs, wrists, necks, shoulders, feets, etc.--ulcers are trying to make a comeback thanks to some bad science--bacteria--they're everywhere!
Sarno doesn't care what you call it, where it is, or the "mechanism" the gremlin/subconscious chooses to distract you with--it's all TMS/PSYCHOSOMATIC--so accept it as your PROTECTOR/defense mechanism, fix it, or forget about it, and JUST DO IT! |
| eric watson |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 08:40:07
quote:
Originally posted by balto
Eric, my post were mean to continue the discussions above from Dr James, Shawn, and pspa above.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience.
i got cha balto- your mean and cool too, how ya been brother balto |
| balto |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 08:36:14
Eric, my post were mean to continue the discussions above from Dr James, Shawn, and pspa above.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| balto |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 08:18:20
What about approaches like accupuncture, chiropractic, scientology, voodoo stuffs?...
I guess when one believed a particular approach is going to work then it will work. Everything is placebo???
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| eric watson |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 08:11:32
quote:
Originally posted by balto
Great Eric, that is a great way to erase your negative memories. Just comforting your past hurt and erase them and move on. Thanks.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience.
yes balto go back to your memory that hurts or bothers you and change it to a good memory-when your done you will be discharged from the negative memory
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| eric watson |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 08:08:40
(Quote shawn smith, of louis haye)- I watched that Louis Hay movie, see link below, and she was saying in a conference to a group of hundreds of people that many people are going to get up and speak and they are all going to say essentially the same thing, only in a different way.
Quote Eric)- thats good shawn- thats exactly key- were all in the same boat just different termonology and some different metaphors- its still about tms healing which ever way we slice it. i like to add tms healing with tensive thinking therapy with eft and nlp, just my mix. it works so we work it , right |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 07:15:55
Shawn good post I agree that nobody should be insisting on rigid adherence to Sarno but neither should anyone be debunking the value for some of depth psychology or be trying to reframe those successes as merely applying stress reduction principles. Different folks different strokes. Depends on who you are and what got you to this point. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 04:38:19
quote:
Originally posted by Dr James Alexander
To say that a particular approach is a waste of time or wrong is just a crude way of saying 'my experience has not equipped me with a way of making immediate sense of yours'. We are all the same in that regard- none of us have universal experience, so all we can do is offer our own where it may be helpful; and accept it if someone else has a different take on things. Its all OK if we remember that none of us knows it all.
James, I think what you have said here is worth discussing because it rings with so much truth. There are people who become convinced that a certain way of doing something or looking at the world is the only correct one to the exclusion of all others. Religious fundamentalists are a prime example of this. They may find peace, comfort, hope and meaning in their particular version of "the truth" and insist, based on their lived experience and understanding, that this "truth" is applicable to everyone. I have been there and done that. But then someone else comes along and tells them that their belief system is totally bogus. But such people also have embraced a belief system which they too feel is applicable to everyone on the planet, so both types of people are controlled by ego.
Now, for myself, I don't believe in the modality you offer at all. There is nothing in it that I feel can provide me any kind of assistance because I simply cannot accept it. But that does not mean that others do not find help and healing in your treatment program. So for me, or anyone else, to call your methods bogus is not correct because obviously people have found help, and who can argue with success?
But there are people who believe they MUST follow Sarno chapter and verse otherwise there is no chance of healing. But the fact is, as evidenced by numerous people on this message board, many people have fully recovered while dismissing much of Sarno's treatment protocol.
I think the take home message is that there is no single path (or should I say vocabulary?) to healing from TMS and those who insist there is may be doing themselves and others a disservice.
I watched that Louis Hay movie, see link below, and she was saying in a conference to a group of hundreds of people that many people are going to get up and speak and they are all going to say essentially the same thing, only in a different way. She went on to say that she will say some things which many people will not understand and someone else will get up and say almost the exact same thing, but with slightly different terminology, and people in the audience will say that they never heard that before even though Louis just said it in a previous speech.
What I am saying is that many times all these modalities are actually saying many similar things but they don't all resonate with everyone.
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See: Beyond The Secret - You Can Heal Your Life, Full Version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbvC0ermaQ4 |
| Dr James Alexander |
Posted - 03/06/2013 : 02:59:13
fantastic chickenbone- really glad to hear it! You are living proof that people can get better in all sorts of ways. Keep it up.
James |
| chickenbone |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 23:52:53
Hi Dr. James. I enjoyed reading your input on this thread. I am happy to report that my pain has been gone for a long time, over 3 months. I don't even really think about it anymore. Also, I thought it was time to get off the meds, low doses of amitriptyline and zolpidem. I have been off the zolpidem for about 6 weeks, that was fairly easy even though I took it for 6 years. Now, I am off the antidepressant too for about 4 days, which I took for a long time with some breaks along the way. I substituted Shiff's Melatonin Complex, a dietary supplement. It has helped. The only unpleasantness is about 2 sleepless nights per week. I can live with it for the time being. I just thought I would let you know that I took your advice in your book concerning drugs. I am generally happy and do not have a lot of anxiety. The sleepless nights still bother me, but I get up and do something interesting until I can fall asleep. I feel better not taking the drugs. |
| Dr James Alexander |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 22:04:12
sorry- it was eric who suggested the inner child approach (not TT- although i quite like the Rocky Road option as well!)
James |
| Dr James Alexander |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 22:01:59
yep- i routinely see people overcoming chronic physical as well as emotional pain by using depth-psychology approaches, ie. approaches which work with what some choose to refer to as 'unconscious' material, which can include emotional hurts inflicted in childhood. There is no more a hurt little child still within us as there is a small person which creates our self talk- it is all just models of reality, but they can be models which make inherent sense to some people and which make the subsequent work possible. And the reality (which i see on a daily basis in my work) is that pain inflicted on children creates a neurological (and physiological) reality which can reverberate for an entire life-time. This reverberation (which involves physical as well as emotional components) is 'locked' into the central nervous system by virtue of the emotionally charged circumstances in which the memory was laid down. As TT has indicated, there are excellent methods of trying to move this stuff- and as we cant directly see into the neurological system, we need to use metaphors and models to do so. Typically, these painful memories are subcortical (limbic, PAG, and right hemisphere), and are emotionally loaded. 'Inner child work' uses the metaphor of hurt children (which speaks directly to the limbic/emotional nature of these experiences) and is for the most part experienced as very healing. When it is done properly (does this require the assistance of a trained therapist? perhaps, but not necessarily) it can lead to 'reconsolidation', which is the phenomenon of synapses that were created during the stressful event becoming literally detached, and old neural pathways being broken up. The person retains their biographical memory, but without the emotional charge which has accompanied certain memories. I am most familiar with this reconsolidation happening with EMDR, however no doubt it can and does happen with other therapies, such as short term psychodynamic therapy, coherence therapy, some approaches to Gestalt- there are many good therapies which result in reconsolidation. If interested, look up the podcast interviews with Bruce Ecker on Shrink Rap Radio and Wise Counsel. The thing that we all have to accept is that there are experiences of reality which are beyond our own- all of us have a limited experience of reality, simply because we havent had the same experiences as others. To say that a particular approach is a waste of time or wrong is just a crude way of saying 'my experience has not equipped me with a way of making immediate sense of yours'. We are all the same in that regard- none of us have universal experience, so all we can do is offer our own where it may be helpful; and accept it if someone else has a different take on things. Its all OK if we remember that none of us knows it all.
James |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 20:51:09
All well and good but Dr. Sarno's principal psychologist, Arlene Feinblatt, is an advocate of ISTDP which is certainly not just stress reduction or CBT.
http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Intensive_Short_Term_Dynamic_Psychotherapy
Just my guess that in her 30 years she has seen people heal using these methods. Maybe Nicole knows her and could comment on this. I am guessing Dr. James has some insight here too. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 20:12:58
Yes based on what Shawn is saying, the people i know who got better from dr Sarno's book healing back pain alone didn't seem to understand the book's details very well. They just took it as that their symptoms are related to stress and they tried their best to fix the stress in ther lives. They stopped worrying about their symptoms bc they were just "stress related". If you read the stories in the back of the healing back pain book, NONE of the recovered people say that they applied the Freudian concepts to their recovery, just go back and read them. They just did what I stated above. I think the 10% that needed psychotherapy are probably ones that has just habitual, intense strain habits that doing what was stated above was not enough for full resolution. If you also pay attention to the majority of the stories in the back of healing back pain , they did not result in a complete resolution of symptoms, just a significant improvement. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 19:24:11
The problem as I see it, pspa123, is that people will try a new treatment modality and then when they don't see any progress being made after a few weeks they give up and go on to try something else. Many people don't seem to have a shred of patience and become easily discouraged. Suppose, however, that practicing mind-fullness does not lead to recovery. Don't you think that it is still going to make you a better person in the long run? Of course it will.
Dave and Tennis Tom are both hard core Sarno-ites, citing chapter and verse without the slightest deviation or contradiction of the good doctor's words. So what they write is something we have already read in Sarno's books with very little new being offered. That is not a criticism, but merely a reminder that they have absorbed Sarno's teachings to such an extent that they cite him off the top of their heads without even having to look up the reference. Others on this board see fundamental flaws in Sarno's treatment methods as being shallow and naive, but still accept a great deal of what Sarno says while questioning the veracity of his claims of having a high treatment success rate with his Freudian psychology treatment modality. I have seen very few people on this message board recover solely from following what Sarno has taught without supplementing his teachings with some other outside material or methods. Ace, in another post, has noted the same thing. If such people exist, they are in the extreme minority. |
| pspa123 |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 19:14:43
I've read tons of the archived threads and debates and I think some things work for some people and other things work for other people and it's pointless to argue that what worked for any one person is necessarily universally applicable. Obviously many people got better using Dr. Sarno's methods, others failed with his methods but succeeded by losing fear and/or practicing mindfulness etc. I agree with what TT said -- if anyone wants to understand the core TMS approach, one cannot do better than to read what Dave has written. |
| balto |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 15:03:13
Great Eric, that is a great way to erase your negative memories. Just comforting your past hurt and erase them and move on. Thanks.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| eric watson |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 14:35:46
Rik wanted to talk about past issues
so i really gave him a golden nugget if
he knows how to do it-whether its a metaphor or
its all in the imagination- were supposed to face
our childhood realities too and it seems like its hard for some
so if it is, just go back and change it, but thatll be when
rik is ready, if your still concerned in this area
i have folks that i help in this way and they never remember that
negative event again. but if you believe in other things
then alls well that ends well. |
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