| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| RikR |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 09:56:08
A child with parents, who are unable or unwilling to provide safe enough attachment, has no one to whom she can bring her whole developing self. No one is there for reflection, validation and guidance. No one is safe enough to go to for comfort or help in times of trouble. There is no one to cry to, to protest unfairness to, to seek commiseration from for hurts, mistakes, accidents, and betrayals. No one is safe enough to shine with, to do “show and tell” with, to be reflected as a subject of pride…to even practice the all-important intimacy-building skills of conversation. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| alix |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 14:54:42
Thanks Shawn. What was suspect in my case is that I was not particularly affected. I really had never dealt with it... until last year. Believe it or not, during all my psychotherapy sessions with Don Dubin, it didn't even cross my mind to mention it.
Interesting that you mention the holocaust. My dad was a holocaust refugee. He escaped from an internment camp in France waiting to be deported. He was dealing with so many TMS issues all his life. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 14:45:58
I am very sorry to hear of your loss.
I am not saying the memories are fabricated. What I am saying is that one's interpretation of what took place becomes distorted and we attach ourselves emotionally to those interpretations which in turn causes a lot of suffering. As I stated, our minds are rarely a reliable source of accurate information when it comes to recalling the past. This is not something I made up out of my head, but arises out of mindfulness teachings which are thousands of years old. Even Holocaust survivors have found healing through mindfulness / spiritual teachings. |
| alix |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 13:19:16
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
But if you are embracing something that is a total mental fabrication that has little relation to what actually happened and, furthermore, inflicts on you suffering, why hold unto it? This is the part I cannot understand. Let it go.............
Shawn, if they are fabricated memories then great. Recall them, dissect them for what they are, and let them go. I really did not have a terrible problem with that. I am at peace with them, fabricated or not.
And no, they were not particularly pleasant in my case like my dad that was murdered when I was a teenager. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 12:09:03
quote:
Originally posted by RikR
Shawn
So you believe the my memory of living in a car and eating 25 cent loves of bread with stolen taco sauce at age 15 is distorted.
Or perhaps a drunken step father chasing me with a huge hunting knife and my night of hiding in a snow storm dressed in just a T-shirt and jeans. Just one a hundreds of my distorted memories...eh?
Again, I am not denying that those things happened to you. What I want you to question or examine is your thoughts or interpretations surrounding those events and see how these thoughts are causing you suffering. You may find the answer within yourself by refering to Byron Katie's "Loving What Is" which can be heard online at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eCkglFy7TE
The stories in this book of people who suffered and yet healed are amazing. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 12:04:45
quote:
Originally posted by alix
Shawn, even if what you recall is fantasy and is not reality, it makes no difference. It is your reality, the one that is registered in your brain, and you have to deal with it --be it real, distorted, or imagined.
But if you are embracing something that is a total mental fabrication that has little relation to what actually happened and, furthermore, inflicts on you suffering, why hold unto it? This is the part I cannot understand. Let it go............. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 12:02:13
jennypeanut,
My words were not intended to offend you. What I was seeking to convey is that your interpretation or narrative of what took place in the past can and do inflict suffering on you and that there is a way out of this suffering. Despite what you think, I am trying, to the best of my limited abilities to help you and not hurt you. Everything that you are now experiencing with your TMS I have already gone through. Do you want to suffer or do you want to be well? I think you want to be well, otherwise you would not be on this message board. And I, along with others, are trying to help you to emerge from your dark night into the light of health and wholness. Yes,you are angry and frustrated, but you will get better over time with patience and persistence.
Be well! |
| jennypeanut |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 11:55:15
Shawn, I find this offensive:
quote:
Of course, if you insist on suffering I don't want to take that away from you as it is totally your choice.
Tomorrow (or in 5 minutes) when I remember this offense, I'll be sure to counter it with positive affirmations. Please don't tell me how to live my life or assume that I "insist on suffering". Part of me would like to say "How dare you!..." and give some specific examples like RikR did, but you are not worth my time. I'm thinking you didn't actually mean to offend me, but you definitely have. I'm not going to comment anymore so you are welcome to the last word, but you should know some of your comments come off with a certain arrogance.
I will not let your response offend me further, it' isn't worth my time or energy. Shawn, sorry bud, but you are causing me to strain!
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| RikR |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 11:14:25
Shawn
So you believe the my memory of living in a car and eating 25 cent loves of bread with stolen taco sauce at age 15 is distorted.
Or perhaps a drunken step father chasing me with a huge hunting knife and my night of hiding in a snow storm dressed in just a T-shirt and jeans. Just one a hundreds of my distorted memories...eh? |
| alix |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 10:56:05
Shawn, even if what you recall is fantasy and is not reality, it makes no difference. It is your reality, the one that is registered in your brain, and you have to deal with it --be it real, distorted, or imagined. |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 10:27:48
Hi Shawn, Hi Jenny,
Thanks for your replies, they give a different perspective. I tell my wife from time to time: “I don’t know why I feel the way I do about my family.” I compare to the so called “convention” of other families and feel left out.
The biggest fear I had when growing up was of my father. Here is an extract from my bio:
“My father, who carries the same name as my brother wasn’t much better. A very proud British RAF pilot, an officer during WW2, his word was final, and he was always in command. He was tough and made many decisions that saved the lives of air force crews many times over. I heard he once dismissed a member of his crew for LMF, (Low Moral Fiber). I always felt wary of him and on guard. Not much love and understanding there, no warm and fuzzy memories."
Like you Shawn, I would be very happy to fully accept this as fact and just move on, and I don’t quite see how you would know you have got to the point of full acceptance. I also do believe in the mind continually lies to you, as you say; I know you don’t like to call them “suppressed emotions”.
You seem to have the opinion with comments to Jennypeanut that all memories are distorted. When I wrote my bio and other journal writings I make a point to be as honest as possible, without exaggeration and hyperbole, for to not do so would be TMS counterproductive. Or another opposing view would be that accuracy of the event isn’t quite as important as to how you feel when you write them.
In the boundaries of my past family dynamics I think I have other feelings that come into play. I have guilt for feeling the way I do, you know that honor and respect and loyalty that I have been indoctrinated with. I have remorse of the way it should have been, and perhaps other issues. Moreover I am angry at my family for creating an under confident and rejected person in me. A struggle I have had to contend with for 65 years.
With my mother’s recent passing, probate and inheritance fights with siblings over, I am thankfully no longer involved on a daily basis, so I don’t wallow in past specifics any more; I just get a buzz of truth and shed a tear or two by watching the above video. It’s quite relieving and changes my mood.
Thanks to both
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 09:12:58
Jennypeanut,
Yes, I read your post. You wrote, "I find that going through the old memories has helped me in the long run, to see reality for what it was, to give my inner child a voice, and to gain the strength to move on."
My resonpce is that your memories, or anybody's memories, are a distortion of what actually happened and thus cannot be trusted no matter how confident you feel that your version is correct, for you cannot see the totality of anything. This is especially true when dealing with something way in the past. You have not seen reality as it was, you have placed an interpretation on what you think constituted reality at the time and have mistaken it as being the absolute truth. Your attachment to these negative thoughts regarding the past is what is making you suffer, not the past itself. You need to question your interpretations and challenge them with positive affirmations. Of course, if you insist on suffering I don't want to take that away from you as it is totally your choice. Listen to the following audio clip and see if it resonates with you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G31YW1ecX0
Stop and consider Ace's key number 4, which I think is related to this topic:
"Recognize that certain situations make your symptoms worse. This is because you have said a lot of negative things, thought a lot of negative thoughts, or done something with extreme intensity about these situations in the past. This may be related to being sensitized to the situation from your childhood or some other reason. You have to decondition yourself to these situations."
Best wishes! |
| jennypeanut |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 08:08:34
quote:
f you continue stating and believing that negative affirmation then it will be true, but totally a choice on your part. You do not have to continue suffering as a result of what happened to you in the past. It is sad that therapists are feeding this kind of information to people when full and complete healing is possible and available. It's almost like we resist healing because we somehow tell ourselves that feeling well about ourselves in not a good thing or possible.
I simply fail to understand why people continue to wallow in the past and relive it in their minds over and over again and, in the process, inflict tons of suffering and pain on themselves. Would it not be better to learn to let go? This is not about "stuffing" as the feelings of hurt are fully acknowledged, but embracing forgiveness and compassion, both towards those who hurt you as well as yourself. If you tell yourself it is not possible to forgive and let go, or that you will continue to suffer, then these affirmations will be be true for you.
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Hmm.. My therapists have never fed me the message that I cant have healing and move on. Did you see my other post regarding this? On the topic "mucking through old memories"? That much better explains a point of view that is perhaps very different than your own. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 05:09:19
quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
...... but on occasions am reminded of the deep hurt I still feel. Songs like this one below say it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDA0Hecw1k&NR=1
I find it strange that even after being removed away from this family in another country for so long I am still affected by this past.....
Songs like this were written to manipulate our feelings, and people -- strangely enough -- love being manipulated. That is why the song was a big hit! May father is an emotionally distant person and would not appreciate at all any kind of this touchy-feely stuff so I don't even go there. I fully accept my father for who and what he is, for to do otherwise will only lead to suffering on my part.
I think much of this pain from the past is a result of our erroneous thinking about what actually took place. We have a running narrative or interpretation of what took place and we are emotionally attached to that narrative, even though it is 90% fabricated from our minds or suggested to us by some devious therapi$t who wants to keep bilking us of our money with continual excavation $ession$. But because we have convinced ourselves that it is true, we will adamantly resist this idea.
Can you ever know with certainly what your mind tells you or the interpretations it places on things which have happened are actually true? I certainly do not trust my mind, because it continually lies to me. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 04:54:46
quote:
Originally posted by jennypeanut
I am younger at 36 and to think in 20 years I will still be somewhat crippled by my childhood is sad.
If you continue stating and believing that negative affirmation then it will be true, but totally a choice on your part. You do not have to continue suffering as a result of what happened to you in the past. It is sad that therapists are feeding this kind of information to people when full and complete healing is possible and available. It's almost like we resist healing because we somehow tell ourselves that feeling well about ourselves in not a good thing or possible.
I simply fail to understand why people continue to wallow in the past and relive it in their minds over and over again and, in the process, inflict tons of suffering and pain on themselves. Would it not be better to learn to let go? This is not about "stuffing" as the feelings of hurt are fully acknowledged, but embracing forgiveness and compassion, both towards those who hurt you as well as yourself. If you tell yourself it is not possible to forgive and let go, or that you will continue to suffer, then these affirmations will be be true for you. |
| jennypeanut |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 23:25:49
RikR & Andy: I was this child too. Sad, but true. I am younger at 36 and to think in 20 years I will still be somewhat crippled by my childhood is sad. But your first years affect so much of the rest of your life. Anyway, to comment on the "digging up the past" - I have definitely dug. Before I found out about TMS in fact. And I do believe the digging around prompted the TMS. So is it good or bad? I don't know. Surely it can't be so black and white. I think we all have a unique process to healing - and that might involve at times some digging in the dirt.
Shawn says that he doesn't see the point in unearthing the past other than acknowledging that some distressing things happened. Well, maybe that's true for him but there is no formula. For me it helped me get out of a place I was stuck in - sort of an arrested development because - as the quote says - that's whats happens.
On the flip side of that coin I've seen what happens when I stay in the past too long. I forget to live in today. So right now I'm moving forward and leaving the past for what it is: the past. Had I not unearthed some things I may not be where I am now. Like I said, it's a unique process. I do think to completely ignore it and just say "yes, some bad stuff happened" isn't the healthiest route, especially if there was major trauma, abuse, etc.
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| andy64tms |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 20:09:52
Hi RikR welcome,
I am 65 as well and have had a traumatic past, not only with parents but also with siblings, my parents have both now passed, but the bad feelings seem to linger. You can read my bio if you want more details.
As Shawn suggests I have found it doesn’t seem beneficial for me to unravel and revel in these unpleasant past relationships, for I have tried journaling about them, and it didn’t help.
Very, very slowly as time goes by with life’s distractions, I am getting to a point of acceptance, but on occasions am reminded of the deep hurt I still feel. Songs like this one below say it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDA0Hecw1k&NR=1
I find it strange that even after being removed away from this family in another country for so long I am still affected by this past. I listen to this song often and realize this is only the past, never to be forgotten, but just accepted, so as not to spoil my present.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| RikR |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 12:58:30
Yes I announced I was changing my forum name to Rikr from All1spirit |
| andy64tms |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 11:57:21
Hi RikR,
Our paths haven't crossed on this forum yet, but I am interested if you used "All1Spirit" as a perevious user? If you are you say you are a medical psychologist in your opening post about yourself and have about 99 posts with this user name.
I have been following "All1spirit" threads with interest, but am not commenting at this time. Perhaps you could add your former name to the begining of each of your posts for a while, It would give more of your background information to other posters?
Regards
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 10:47:11
RikR,
Your profile says you are now 65 years old. I am assuming that your TMS has manifested recently (or within the last couple of years) and you are linking your current suffering with your childhood interactions with your parents. You have a running narrative or interpretation of how your childhood was and this narrative or interpretation is causing you a lot of distress. You seem to hold the belief that unearthing all of these childhood memories / experiences will somehow bring about a personal healing. Am I correct in my assessment?
I know that people on this board have differences of opinion regarding how to get well, and you will notice these differences as you continue to read. I personally don't see a lot of utility of going back and digging up these childhood experiences, other than to acknowledge that some distressing things happened to you and which you have held onto throughout the course of your life. You cannot change the past, but you can learn how to live in the current moment and embraced keys which will bring about healing. I already sent you this information in a previous post. This takes time and effort, and will not come to full fruition overnight. You first of all need to be kind to yourself, as well as re-orient how you see yourself. More later..........
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| RikR |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 10:26:39
Shawn
Absolutely |
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