| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 04:59:49
A common mistake is for one to read too many books when they could be working on their habitual strain instead. I think the yield of return from most of the additional books read is very low once you've read some basic books listed in my keys. Once you see the concepts at work, I strongly recommend forget additional tms books to read. Just work on your recovery. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| eric watson |
Posted - 02/24/2013 : 06:23:14
bryan write me sometimes-we can exchange some thoughts
kristen can you write id like to know how your doing on your journey
shawn i really like your recovery
and ace thanks again pal-you done it again
your conviction to heal is amazing
i wonder shawn what are your first things you want to do as
this journey ends and the new one begins
im talking about the journey of healing-
with all your studys, WoW
|
| KristenG |
Posted - 02/24/2013 : 05:42:39
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Your point is well taken Kristen, but since there are few other people we can discuss our situation with, where else can we go? I feel that peer support is important for those who are struggling.
I agree, Shawn. That is why I come here too BUT for me spending too much time here was keeping me from doing the necessary work and moving forward. That was just MY experience. It is different for everyone.Once I feel that I have come far enough in my healing, I hope to return and offer the support that I have gotten from every one here. |
| bryan3000 |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 19:46:54
Ace,
Great thread. Once you get past Sarno and Weekes, there are a few good videos and a book or two (Schubiner) worth checking out, but most are just fluff. I will say this... I think a person has to have a true belief in the process they are taking part in. For most of us, reading yet another book won't do that. It's something we have to decide for ourselves. Or... working with a therapist who is a strong leader can help. For me, talking directly to a few people who had healed helped me start gaining traction.
Less modalities, less concepts, less confusion... more direct action. That's what 95% of us here need. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 14:40:36
quote:
Originally posted by KristenG
Isn't reading too many books similar to spending to much reading forums such as this?
Your point is well taken Kristen, but since there are few other people we can discuss our situation with, where else can we go? I feel that peer support is important for those who are struggling. |
| KristenG |
Posted - 02/23/2013 : 13:32:58
Isn't reading too many books similar to spending to much reading forums such as this? Please don't take this the wrong way. I do enjoy the forums on occasion, but make it a point not to sit here and read thread after thread of symptoms, etc. If I read and responded here all day, how would that take the focus off my TMS? Isn't it better to spend more time living?
As I'd said, I do enjoy reading the postings here at times. It helped so much more in the beginning because I felt some comfort in knowing that I was not alone. I finally had to stop reading here everyday because it was causing me to put too much of my focus on TMS and less time I returning to "normal" and reconditioning myself to my new habits.
Just my .02
Kristen |
| jennypeanut |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 23:08:50
I agree. Some of the best advice I've been given is to stop reading the books. Thankfully I've only read 2. I'm reaching a place of peace in my mind. S-l-o-w-l-y - by meditating on the affirmations and practicing letting go of my negative thoughts. I can't help my thoughts but I can help which ones I chose to dwell on. I think Ace is right about the deep thinker part. I can understand exactly what you mean Ace. ;) |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 18:53:39
I think what you have said here is a good point Ace, because I feel that some people hold the belief that you are anti-Sarno when in fact the opposite is the case. As a result of being exposed to Dr. Sarno's work you achieved healing, but had to modify or compliment his treatment program with some additional elements in order to achieve your own personal breakthrough. |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 18:44:47
Thank you for the compliment back to it on the list I made. I think back to it is right on on why some of dr Sarno's patients got better with his current theory. In fact, all of the people to whom I've suggested dr Sarno's book, not one who was "cured" took his book literally. Actually, none of them were deep thinkers and they just took the message that they are stressed out and that's why they have the symptoms they got, so then they tried their best not to be stressed out or to worry about their symptoms. I would look at them wondering how they got better so fast, but yet it was so hard for me. I, on the other hand am an analyzer and a deep thinker, who took dr Sarno's words to an extreme literal interpretation. This led me to being stuck for a long time. I was actually unwilling to let go of dr Sarno's original ideas because I believed him so much. Actually sometimes teachings that have only SOME truth are the most confusing. Once again, I still have to give dr Sarno credit for saving my life, bc had it not been for him, I may have never went down the right path. I am very great-full to him. |
| Back2-It |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 04:48:59
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Well that doesn't help a lot Tom as the statement is obvious. Give me something I can work with and not just something we already know to be true. Dr Sarno in his own books stated that for most patients six weeks was sufficient to bring about a resolution to the symptoms, and he hypes up these so called book cures. We now know, however, that this is not the case for the vast majority of people with TMS. Why did he make a diagnosis but then held back on what it really takes to recover? The response is he does not know all the answers to this question, and thus spoke in general terms without going into specifics. Here, on this message board, we are trying to go a bit deeper into what it takes and many of us have found Ace's keys to healing to be a sound model to adopt instead of the Freudian psychotherapy model embraced by Dr Sarno and his loyal disciples.
I'm just guessing here, but it sounded like from the stories related in HBP and MBP that Dr. Sarno's actual patients had on-going access to him, and the authoritarian pronouncement of the problem, based with the cred of years of rehab, plus the aura of a guru. Just as hoodoo does not work if you do not believe it, neither with a psychogenic dx, at least not from one whom one does not consider credible enough, and that can be another TMS practitioner or a book or CD. Not to mention Dr. Sarno' patients were selected on their perceived basis to accept a psychogenic cause. How big a population sample is this? If you note carefully in one of the book success stories, one woman accepted the dx but it was a trip to her physical therapist who convinced her that her range of motion was able to be restored. She needed a bit more.
It is the thoughts that make us what we are, or the words attached to those thoughts, to be more precise, both conscious and unconscious. It takes behavior modification to change those thought visa actions. Sarno constructs a basic outline for this, by saying gradually return to normal living and use the thought of "benign" to change behavior.
The anxious personality, the TMS personality, if you will, with its obessive tendencies, always wants more information and reassurance. Sometimes more is needed. Sometimes you have to stray a bit from the TMS template and explore the physical modalities to your satisfaction or dissatisfaction. Then, you might be ready in the deep mind to accept it. Or as one great poster put it here, he finally took the "**** it" method of dealing with his pain and resumed life full steam.
Ace1 provides, in my opinion, a blue print of the how of it, the why of it, and the "cure" for it, but each word must be digested and reflected upon and applied personally.
Now...back to life.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 17:40:28
I am happy for you Tom, I really am. Anyone who can function, despite their discomfort, is to be applauded. It snowed all day here where I am, but I managed to get a 45 minute walk in at the local mall. From my youth, I have never been the athletic type. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 17:36:45
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Yeah, whatever Tom. Your hip is still hurting too so you are not one to talk about how Freud helped you along to a cure. I think what you said was a low kick in the nuts as each person heals in their own time. If you read any of the academic literature you would know that Freud's ideas are highly dismissed in academic circles and his ideas regarding the unconscious are highly controversial. But this is not generally known in academic circles.
Yes Shawn, my hip is still hurting, but I played great tennis today, played yesterday and am playing tomorrow. I drove my street legal race car to work today and will drive it home tonight with the top down unless it's snowing. I'm going to work supervising twenty employees, and my butt doesn't hurt sitting for hours. I'm not complaining, asking the world for help and wallowing in self pitty while undermining people's belief, faith and hope in Dr. Sarno's TMS theory. It's very well known Freud is out of favor--whatever way the wind blows and the sky is falling. |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 16:54:41
Yeah, whatever Tom. Your hip is still hurting too so you are not one to talk about how Freud helped you along to a cure. I think what you said was a low kick in the nuts as each person heals in their own time. If you read any of the academic literature you would know that Freud's ideas are highly dismissed in academic circles and his ideas regarding the unconscious are highly controversial. But this is not generally known in academic circles. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 16:27:02
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Well that doesn't help a lot Tom as the statement is obvious.
...Give me something I can work with and not just something we already know to be true.
...Here, on this message board, we are trying to go a bit deeper into what it takes...
Well Shawn, I think the problem you and others may be having is over complicating the Good Doctor's beautifully simple message. Like my yoga teacher used to say, his biggest problem was that his student's knew too much. This forum is dedicated to the teachings of Dr. Sarno, it clearly states so on the home page. You clearly disagree with many of the fundamental tenants of Dr. Sarno theory like Freudiansim and the existence of the subconscious. You are also apparently not getting better, maybe this TMS business is not best stuff for you. Maybe you need to come up with your own cure and write a book about it.
OK, since you want specific advice on how to overcome your stuck-ness, my RX for you Shawn to help distract you from your life woes is:
#1 Purchase a Red Corvette for chic-bait.
#2 Get a mistress, (or two).
#3 Enter the Maverick's big surf contest.
#4 Take up Ashtanga yoga and do head and hand stands.
#5 Take up base-jumping, this is the easiest since all you have to do is Take that first step.
#6 Buy a 12 passenger Citation jet so you can take all your old TMS buddies and new found lady friends, around the world with all the money you make from writing "THE GREAT AMERICAN TMS BOOK".
G'luck!
tt/lsmft
|
| plum |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 16:08:07
Nicole, you're the sweetest.
Best wishes to you x |
| NicoleSachsLCSW |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 15:13:46
Plum,
I don't mean to abandon you or the many people that remind me to continue posting here. I do appreciate your acknowledgment that it can be a pretty difficult environment since a few people seem to want to attack me for doing absolutely nothing to them except extending my message - take it or leave it. I will try to "man up" as they say, and keep showing up.
I have some ideas. Will post soon. All the best to you.
With love,
-n.
quote:
Originally posted by plum
Or as SteveO said 'Just Do It!' which is why I run (if you can call it that) every other day (and walk like Widow T****ey on the days inbetween).
You just have to saddle up the horse and get on with it, whatever your 'it' is.
Tom, thanks for posting quotes from Nicole's book. I liked her book and I like her. It's a real shame she got rough and tumbled here because her message is sound. It's damn cold here. Could do with one your hot-tubs post run. Hugs to you x
Embrace your Truth, Create your Life. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 09:47:14
quote:
Originally posted by plum
...Tom, thanks for posting quotes from Nicole's book. I liked her book and I like her. It's a real shame she got rough and tumbled here because her message is sound. It's damn cold here. Could do with one your hot-tubs post run. Hugs to you x
Thanks sugar Plum, I was just headed there, feel free to join me.
Cheers
tt/lsmft |
| shawnsmith |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 09:44:05
Well that doesn't help a lot Tom as the statement is obvious. Give me something I can work with and not just something we already know to be true. Dr Sarno in his own books stated that for most patients six weeks was sufficient to bring about a resolution to the symptoms, and he hypes up these so called book cures. We now know, however, that this is not the case for the vast majority of people with TMS. Why did he make a diagnosis but then held back on what it really takes to recover? The response is he does not know all the answers to this question, and thus spoke in general terms without going into specifics. Here, on this message board, we are trying to go a bit deeper into what it takes and many of us have found Ace's keys to healing to be a sound model to adopt instead of the Freudian psychotherapy model embraced by Dr Sarno and his loyal disciples. |
| Bugbear |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 09:43:26
quote:
A common mistake is for one to read too many books when they could be working on their habitual strain instead.
(Ace1)
For me I would add articles, excerpts, youtube videos and even poetry. I am not dissing any of these, particularly poetry, being a graduate in comparative literature.
quote:
Actually, once you "get" it, then most of the reading is redundant and can be confusing.
(Back2-It)
Yep. Not only redundant and confusing but I have noticed doubt and fear trying to creep back in.
quote:
While on line forums certainly connect people they often provide such anonymity that they do not address the biological communal connections we need as humans – we are simply pack animals and one of our major stressors is feeling like we have to do it alone.
For thousands of years and up until less than 100 years ago everyone you knew personally and your entire family was a short walk or a horse ride away. This sense of not being connected to a reliable support system creates huge amounts of chronic fear.
(All1Spirit)
You and Balto sure are on the same page, pardon the book pun. Anonymity is great in some ways but I feel very disconnected on forums.
quote:
I know some of you are intellectuals, but there are times when one has to put that egghead part of themselves to one side for the sake of being well.
(Shawnsmith)
Healing needs to be accessible to all, whether we are intellectuals or just an average Joe/Jane wishing to live a happy, pain free life. |
| plum |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 09:36:18
Or as SteveO said 'Just Do It!' which is why I run (if you can call it that) every other day (and walk like Widow T****ey on the days inbetween).
You just have to saddle up the horse and get on with it, whatever your 'it' is.
Tom, thanks for posting quotes from Nicole's book. I liked her book and I like her. It's a real shame she got rough and tumbled here because her message is sound. It's damn cold here. Could do with one your hot-tubs post run. Hugs to you x |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 09:28:22
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
...Sadly, Dr Sarno's work is lacking in many aspects,..
...What does one do when one is diagnosed with TMS by even the good doctor himself? His advice is sketchy at best and he did not develop it enough to satisfy the needs of many patients. Yeah, the 12 daily reminders are nice and all, but there is very little substance to them.
Dr. Sarno--nor any other TMS author, can live your life for you or tell you what you should do with it. At some point you have to get off your butt, take that philosophical and real "first step" and do something that validates your existence, getting on with it--then you die. Only you can bring find and bring meaning to your lif. Dr. Sarno, a coach, a guru, can only help keep you on the path.
To quote a truth from Nicole Sachs' new TMS book (caps mine):
"THIS IS YOUR LIFE. YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF IT. (YES, YOU ACTUALLY ARE.) WHEN WE GIVE AWAY OUR POWER, WE GAIN A MILLION REASONS TO BE DEFENSIVE ." |
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